Wigan Preview

[ABBEY]

it can improve by being fair and even handed to ALL teams and if a decision is made to the letter of the law ie,the sending off and the yellow for diving lets have it done to both sides ie,going thru bentley from behind no booking,umpteen bad tackles no bookings etc.

[waggy]

my pennys worth,thought saturdays game was brilliant.when samba brought heskey down i was thinking here we go again but for once we won with ten men,some excellent preformance's notably warnock/bents/santa and roberts.as for samba i have said it more than once,WE GIVE HIM A 5 YEAR CONTRACT AND HE LOSES INTREST,trying to blame oojer for his sending off is unbelievable,without oojer and zurab we would be struggling.sparky has to learn to play in form players not favourites

[JAL]

my pennys worth,thought saturdays game was brilliant.when samba brought heskey down i was thinking here we go again but for once we won with ten men,some excellent preformance's notably warnock/bents/santa and roberts.as for samba i have said it more than once,WE GIVE HIM A 5 YEAR CONTRACT AND HE LOSES INTREST,trying to blame oojer for his sending off is unbelievable,without oojer and zurab we would be struggling.sparky has to learn to play in form players not favourites

Hes just had a new born maybe the tot or his missus is giving him an hard time, wait till everything settles down then we'll hopefully see a return to form of Samba unless that is 'scouse' thinks he can get some good money for him and prostitutes him to another club.

[B.R.F.C]

Thought we played quite well on Saturday but the game breakers quite evidently were Bents and Roque. Some of Bents close control, skill and passing was absolutely fantastic, his cross for Roque's 2nd was an absolute peach.

Thoroughly deserved three points and a great team performance.

As an additional note it appears Erik Edman ruptured his cruciates and is out for 6-7 months Have to admit I felt a bit sorry for the lad Palacios getting sent off as well given how things are for him at the moment.

[tony gale's mic]

Give Samba a break, he's still young and most central defenders don't reach their peak until much later in their careers. People start to sit up and take notice of him a bit so obviously teams will start forming plans on how to get past him and will know his weaknesses a bit better. He's got ages to improve though and has still got a lot of the raw attributes needed to be top class.

[LDRover]

Give Samba a break, he's still young and most central defenders don't reach their peak until much later in their careers. People start to sit up and take notice of him a bit so obviously teams will start forming plans on how to get past him and will know his weaknesses a bit better. He's got ages to improve though and has still got a lot of the raw attributes needed to be top class.

Fair point TGM but we're not talking in depth defending here, we're talking about being goalside of the man you're marking. That's one of the first aspects of defending you learn at primary school.

I've no doubt he has a lot of the attributes needed to be a very good defender but he's got a hell of a lot of improving to do. On that subject, I was also mightily miffed that he took issue with Dunny last week when he'd clearly messed up, if that's the way he responds to well placed criticism I wonder on his ability to learn from mistakes.

On a side note, if say, Ooijer had been directly responsible for the conceding of 3 of the last 4 goals Rovers have (as Samba has been) do you think the same leniency on this board would be afforded to him?

[den]

Fair point TGM but we're not talking in depth defending here, we're talking about being goalside of the man you're marking. That's one of the first aspects of defending you learn at primary school.

If Samba had known that Ooijer was going to mis-head it, I'm sure he would have got goal side of Heskey. If he were to constantly be goal side of the attackers, he would be playing them all onside.

As a centre half, you must be level with your back four, except when your team has the ball, when you must move to give other players on your side options.

Ooijer was as much to blame as Samba, - if someone has to be blamed. Personally, I reckon it was simply down to a mis-timed header. These things happen.

[Alan75]

Cant we just blame MGP for not tracking back........

[CAPT KAYOS]

If Samba had known that Ooijer was going to mis-head it, I'm sure he would have got goal side of Heskey. If he were to constantly be goal side of the attackers, he would be playing them all onside.

As a centre half, you must be level with your back four, except when your team has the ball, when you must move to give other players on your side options.

Ooijer was as much to blame as Samba, - if someone has to be blamed. Personally, I reckon it was simply down to a mis-timed header. These things happen.

Den again I am going from memory, but I thought the header was from a throwing.

Samba was the centre back and should be covering his full back so to me it was bad positioning, there was a similar incident not long before the penalty with the defnce and as I have said earlier Samba did not look comfortable from the kick off.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

This was something I mentioned about on Saturday - even before the sending off Samba was looking rather dodgey, and as what has already been said has been for quite a few games.

How anybody can blame OOjer for the header is beyond me as he should be going for the ball, and if not Samba should have been positioning himself accordingly or shouting to OOjer.

Anyway as USRover me has posted - I think the sending off worked to our advantage for the very reason about Samba being poor.

Samba was stupid and Heskey may have gone down easily , but if he had any nous would have realised that Heskey was already wobbling on his knees and Friedal would have had him fo breakfast/dinner and tea... -don't know if anybody else has noticed though Kish also had a tendency to manhandle opponents quite alot - there was no need for him to even whisper at him never mind itch his back

As for the rest of the game, well done the rest of the lads who where exceptional with some outstanding performances..

As for the ref ... sorry JAL but he was very poor in terms of reffing the game and I am in agreement with Theno about his whole performance.

As we all know, it was the best performance for a long time (the best this season for me at home) so the question has to be asked where it has been hiding, especially when we did it with 10 men.

Could the reason be that the pitch is finally drying out ? The wet, skiddy pitches of the last few months have exposed our lack of pace throughout the team. Now things are drying out it will suit our more measured style of play.

[Manchester Blue]

If Samba had known that Ooijer was going to mis-head it, I'm sure he would have got goal side of Heskey. If he were to constantly be goal side of the attackers, he would be playing them all onside.

As a centre half, you must be level with your back four, except when your team has the ball, when you must move to give other players on your side options.

Ooijer was as much to blame as Samba, - if someone has to be blamed. Personally, I reckon it was simply down to a mis-timed header. These things happen.

Can't agree with that at all. Basic rule of defending that if the opposition have a throw-in then the centre half has to be goal side. Since you can't be off side at a throw in it is even more important. Samba has been caught out many times trying to sneak in front and nick the ball, against Ashton for example the previous week. He'd be better off sticking to basic defending for a change.

[den]

Can't agree with that at all. Basic rule of defending that if the opposition have a throw-in then the centre half has to be goal side. Since you can't be off side at a throw in it is even more important.

Yes Ooijer had to be goal side. Samba was where he should have been - level with Ooijer.

At any stage of a game, if a last man defender mis times a header, particularly if he heads it backwards, your team's in trouble.

But hey, we won.

[Manchester Blue]

Den not sure why you are a dog with a bone with this one, no-one that i've read has suggested either Samba was solely responsible, or that Ooijer deliberately mistimed his header. However, for the purposes of accuracy. Wigan had a throw in about 10 yards into our half. Ooijer, the right back, is close to the touch line and as the ball is thrown down the line jumps but partly due to pressure mistimes his header and flicks it backwards. Samba, the centre half, has allowed himself to get caught in no-man's land about 5 yards behind Ooijer and crucially in front of Heskey him a head start in bearing down on goal.

Samba isn't at fault for misreading the header, or failing to anticipate that he would head it backwards, no-one would expect him to do that. He is at fault because as a centre half, when defending a throw down the line he should at all times be goal side of the striker. If the winger that Ooijer was up against had got a flick we would equally have been in trouble, because Samba was out of position. It really is that simple, it's not an opinion it's basic defending.

[RevidgeBlue]

On a side note, if say, Ooijer had been directly responsible for the conceding of 3 of the last 4 goals Rovers have (as Samba has been) do you think the same leniency on this board would be afforded to him?

Couldn't disagree more strongly with that Jason, out of the three goals I would say he can only be blamed for the one against West Ham (which I'll readily concede was a shocker).

I've got to say I thought his challenge against Fulham was a perfectly legitimate one. The Wigan goal was down to an appalling piece of play by Ooijer. Pure and simple. Other than that he (Ooijer) has been playing well recently.

As for the Den/ MB debate, Den is spot on and MB couldn't be wider of the mark imo. Generally if we did what MB is suggesting we'd have three defenders in a line trying to play everyone offside and Samba goal side playing everyone on with the resultant chaos.

As for Saturday's incident a defender wouldn't worry too much about being goal side if one of our players had the ball and was about to pass forward. Likewise Samba was entitled to assume Ooijer would plant his header forward or out of play.

[Manchester Blue]

Couldn't disagree more strongly with that Jason, out of the three goals I would say he can only be blamed for the one against West Ham (which I'll readily concede was a shocker).

I've got to say I thought his challenge against Fulham was a perfectly legitimate one. The Wigan goal was down to an appalling piece of play by Ooijer. Pure and simple. Other than that he (Ooijer) has been playing well recently.

As for the Den/ MB debate, Den is spot on and MB couldn't be wider of the mark imo. Generally if we did what MB is suggesting we'd have three defenders in a line trying to play everyone offside and Samba goal side playing everyone on with the resultant chaos.

As for Saturday's incident a defender wouldn't worry too much about being goal side if one of our players had the ball and was about to pass forward. Likewise Samba was entitled to assume Ooijer would plant his header forward or out of play.

Can we be clear on one thing first, you cannot be offside from a throw in, so it wouldn't matter where Samba is in that respect. If our defenders were in a line playing offside from a throw in then i'd be appalled. Secondly Samba isn't entitled to assume sod all, he's entitled to defend properly and take the correct position.

Let's put it this way, I played right back and when I was ever defending a throw on my side i'd be goal side of my winger. I'd be most disturbed to say the least if on a throw that was ten yards into my half, with me say ten yards further back, my centre half was level with me. Any striker worth his salt in that situation would be waiting to run in on goal in such a situation.

I will guarantee you won't see other teams defend in such a way, and I will guarantee that Samba was given a rollocking for it.

[only2garners]

Cant we just blame MGP for not tracking back........

No it was the right wing so it should have been Betnley's job. Where was he - what was he doing all afternoon?

[philipl]

I only saw it the once in real time but I thought Ooijer was fouled.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I only saw it the once in real time but I thought Oojer was fouled.

Could well have been philipl.

As I have mentioned, I am going from memory and still see it clearly as a ball that Oojer had to go for and be it a foul or not, Samba was badly placed - unfortunately for Oojer it glanced the top of his head

I'm with MB on this and it was basic defensive error of positioning on Samba's part.

Unfortunately, to me this is not uncommon by us when we do defend and have noticed it before and also worryingly vice versa we seem to have a similar problem when we are actually taking a throwing also and actually getting it to one of our own players.

[thenodrog]

I only saw it the once in real time but I thought Ooijer was fouled.

Me to.... but it was right in front of me and it looked a deliberate back header to samba executed without realising that Samba had moved closer and that Heskey was right behind him. I do stand to be corrected though.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Samba should have been goalside of Heskey. Can't see what the argument's about.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Amongst all the Samba bashing - lets not forget, early season he was obsolutely awesome.

For me, in recent matches, his lack of concentration and positioning has been exposed. Earlier in the season - his pace and general ability covered this. Recently he has looked weary and leggy - and his naivity has been exposed. I seem to remember a certain defender at West Ham who had similar problems early in his career - and I don't think the current England captain has done so bad since.

Bentley, who had been a similar bit part player at his previous club, seemed to suffer in the second half of his first full season playing virtually every match. I have hopes that a more experienced and fitter Samba will re-assert himself next season - in the same way that Bentley has.

For me - I wouldn't be looking to buy a centre-half - as we have 4 good centre halfs - and in Samba and Nelsen a potentially awesome combination if they can rediscover the form we have previously seen from both of them.

[waggy]

Amongst all the Samba bashing - lets not forget, early season he was obsolutely awesome.

For me, in recent matches, his lack of concentration and positioning has been exposed. Earlier in the season - his pace and general ability covered this. Recently he has looked weary and leggy - and his naivity has been exposed. I seem to remember a certain defender at West Ham who had similar problems early in his career - and I don't think the current England captain has done so bad since.

Bentley, who had been a similar bit part player at his previous club, seemed to suffer in the second half of his first full season playing virtually every match. I have hopes that a more experienced and fitter Samba will re-assert himself next season - in the same way that Bentley has.

For me - I wouldn't be looking to buy a centre-half - as we have 4 good centre halfs - and in Samba and Nelsen a potentially awesome combination if they can rediscover the form we have previously seen from both of them.

totally agree,the problem seems to be that sparky picks players when they are struggling when we have adequate replacements

[Fife Rover]

totally agree,the problem seems to be that sparky picks players when they are struggling when we have adequate replacements

Yes I have noticed that Waggy. Only surmising, but maybe Sparky likes to give an out of form player a few games without dropping in order to avoid upsetting the players confidence? Assuming this is the case I feel he should not continue it for more that 2 or 3 games for the sake of the team as a whole.