[Archived] Hang Em High

[thenodrog]

Not before Clive Tyldesley is set loose in a room full of hungry lions.

The screeching and blatherings of Motson and Peirce would have the Lions running for the door.

[Rovermatt]

The screeching and blatherings of Motson and Peirce would have the Lions running for the door.

They wouldn't be hungry anymore though.

[broadsword]

Good grief, what's this all about?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...mp;in_a_source=

[adopted scouser]

Watching the news today, another shattered, devastated family trying to understand why their son was stabbed to death.

Why can't we have old fashioned coppers to reclaim the streets ? Stop and search, carrying a knife, mandatory three years - no parole. Stop trying to understand the little darlings and bring fear back into the equation.

On the news we are presented with bloody 'liaison officer' who will 'work with the police' to 'try and understand' why they feel the need to carry a knife.

As a parent I can't begin to comprehend what these poor people endure following the murder of a family member, but if anything happened to my daughter I'd have his f***ing legs.

rant over

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Stop and search, carrying a knife, mandatory three years - no parole.

I'd go further and say it should be a minimum of five years, but our prisons are overcrowded with criminals and the Man of Straw (Blackburn MP and Justice Secretary Jack) is busy releasing criminals early from their sentences.

Scandalously, only one in ten thugs caught with a knife in public is actually locked up. Yes, nine out of ten people caught with a knife are not put away. Of the 8,950 people caught with a knife in 2005, only 965 were jailed. Only 26 thugs were sent down for more than a year and only three offenders were given prison sentences of 18 months or more.

To think that just three people out of 8.950 were given what I'd call a remotely proper sentence for carrying a knife. It's enough to make you weep.

Only one knife thug in every ten is locked up

New Labour have failed to build enough prisons over the last decade and are now releasing offenders early. So much for their promise to the people of Britain to be "tough on crime". New Labour are soft on crime and soft on the causes of crime. The Tories aren't much better either. They have also been infected by what I call the politically correct disease of appeasement.

David "hug a hoodie" Cameron says that teenagers who hide under hooded tops are trying to "blend in" rather than appear threatening. Good grief. Cameron said in 2006: "Hoodies are more defensive than offensive. They're a way to stay invisible in the street."

As for 'stop and search', well a few years ago this was deemed to be "racist" by so-called community groups and the Commission for Racial Equality. They were concerned about the impact on community relations. (See the link HERE.)

"The cost both in police and community relations and resources, is simply too great," said the report. But what about the cost to the families who are grieving the loss of loved ones because this country has failed to get a grip of violent crime. Aren't the families of the loved ones important, or is it more important to talk about "community relations"?

The new sensitive approach to stop and search

"Strong feelings of isolation and alienation" says Commander Gargini. But what about the strong feelings of anger that millions of people in Britain feel about the direction in which our country is heading and how the politicians like Mr Straw are failing to tackle violent crime, with an increasingly politically correct approach.

another shattered, devastated family

Sadly there will be many more in the future. Our politicians have simply failed to get a grip. I only wish that we had a Prime Minister with balls, like Enoch, who could sort out the mess in our country.

[Claytons Left Boot]

On the theme of deterrents, it was interesting to note that there were no reports of trouble in Moscow at the European Cup Final. Even the numbest of English football hooligans would have known that any 'anti social behaviour' could have ended in a severe beating at the very least and most likely a prison sentence before being unceremoniously kicked out of the country. I'm of the opinion that a suitable deterrent does work (note the word suitable) and the goings on in Moscow seem to back this theory up.

[thenodrog]

On the theme of deterrents, it was interesting to note that there were no reports of trouble in Moscow at the European Cup Final. Even the numbest of English football hooligans would have known that any 'anti social behaviour' could have ended in a severe beating at the very least and most likely a prison sentence before being unceremoniously kicked out of the country. I'm of the opinion that a suitable deterrent does work (note the word suitable) and the goings on in Moscow seem to back this theory up.

You know that CLB, I know that but ............

[broadsword]

Watching the news today, another shattered, devastated family trying to understand why their son was stabbed to death.

Why can't we have old fashioned coppers to reclaim the streets ? Stop and search, carrying a knife, mandatory three years - no parole.

rant over

apparently the police will now be issued with handheld computers to help them fill in dozy great big forms more quickly, why can't they be done away with, don't we trust the Police?

I also read somewhere that CCTV cameras don't actually help reduce crime at all. A pointless infringement of my rigth to go about my business without being spied upon, then.

[Eddie]

apparently the police will now be issued with handheld computers to help them fill in dozy great big forms more quickly, why can't they be done away with, don't we trust the Police?

Not in all circumstances.

[rover6]

On the theme of deterrents, it was interesting to note that there were no reports of trouble in Moscow at the European Cup Final. Even the numbest of English football hooligans would have known that any 'anti social behaviour' could have ended in a severe beating at the very least and most likely a prison sentence before being unceremoniously kicked out of the country. I'm of the opinion that a suitable deterrent does work (note the word suitable) and the goings on in Moscow seem to back this theory up.

CLB, do you want Britain to end up like Russia? The authorities have near impunity and act accordingly. From the regular murders of new recruits to the army, to generals ordering their own soldiers to be killed for personal political gain. The police are required to acquiesce with the pro-Putin thugs and gangsters but to clamp down viciously on even non-violent dissenters of any persuasion.

The British political culture is very different from that of Russia, admittedly. Here we respect individual rights and crucial in this is the strict regulation of the power of the authorities. If we give the police or the government, carte blanche to act as they fit, we would certainly slide towards inhumane exploitation of power. Power corrupts. It has to be kept in check.

I have little time for this evil that is spreading and throttling this country - the gang violence, rise of Chavism and thuggery and daily murders - however, Britain needs to find a solution quickly that does not involve giving complete discretion to the police force in the use of violence.

The root of the gang violence amongst youth is a cultural cancer. Nearly all humans strive to improve their self-worth and earn the respect of their peers. Some do this by working to become rich, others want to excel at a sport/music, or getting educated. However, amongst these relatively deprived 'ghetto' areas - the culturally recongised way of earning respect is to be "hard." The kids who have been in jail, commit crimes, the hard-nuts, are the ones who are lionised - have the friends and the status. So it's inevitable that kid growing up in such an environment will strive to gain similar status by breaking the law and causing mayhem. It's a form of self-protection, as well.

The problem is, how do you discredit "aggression" to these kids, when it is so apparent that if you are aggressive or "hard", you are a respected, even celebrated(think Rappers). It's a thankless task but if you could get them young, then that's your chance. Aside from working on strong forms of deterrence, society - and all the sub-societies, MUST work towards discrediting "aggression."

[Flopsy]

The problem is, how do you discredit "aggression" to these kids, when it is so apparent that if you are aggressive or "hard", you are a respected, even celebrated(think Rappers). It's a thankless task but if you could get them young, then that's your chance. Aside from working on strong forms of deterrence, society - and all the sub-societies, MUST work towards discrediting "aggression."

Actually, trying to remove aggressive tendencies from boys is one of the main reasons for this. Boys/teens are by nature aggressive and competitve, but have had the old ways of letting this agression out harmlessly taken away. Uncompetitive sports days, lack of play time both in and out of school, over protection by parents etc etc.

What is needed is a way of channeling this natural aggression/competitive streak. so encouraging these kids to take up sports, join youth organisations etc which will channel these tendencies and give them a purpose.

Calling for the reintroduction of corporal punishment misses the point entirely

[rover6]

Yeah, Flopsy, you're right in that aggression is an instinctive aspect of humans that you can't just remove. Channelling it is what is needed.

Using aggression for social status (basically how a pack of wolves behave) is what must be discredited. However the problem can be put simply - if you live in a rough, inner city area where familial values are non-existent and little accountability exists, how do you earn yourself respect/protection from your peers? Aggression, crime and violence. It's a cycle.

There are two broad methods with which you attack this cycle:

(A) Deterrent

( Discredit aggression as a means of status.

Option ( is a very difficult method because it requires radically overhauling the mentality of parts of society. Even if you give people opportunities to channel their aggression - if being "hard" is highly admirable, it is easier to lounge in the streets with your cronies intimidating people than putting effort into sports or drama. Most, in such a culture, will take the easy option to gain social status, imo.

Option (A) is difficult because of practical deficiencies of money, manpower, prison space, and ideological controversies, involving giving the police and government more power and the potential for corruption as a result. Can you trust them?

[Claytons Left Boot]

CLB, do you want Britain to end up like Russia?

Of course not! It was merely an example of how a suitable deterrent works.

In that instance it was only a perceived deterrent as well. The Russian authorities did not need to warn anyone in advance or broadcast from the rooftops what would happen if the English rioted. Those concerned knew full well.

[adopted scouser]

Calling for the reintroduction of corporal punishment misses the point entirely

A comment indicative of todays attitude to feral youths.

Try to source 'things to do' for the ones that are interested absolutely, but to imagine that you can persuade these brainless trackies to join the youth club when they can smoke weed, drink cider, carry weapons and impregnate 15 year old 'jodies' without fear of recrimination or punishment and you're living in la la land.

Teddy had it right, 'Speak softly and carry a big stick'. Reclaim the streets with proper coppers correctly deployed, and sterner sentences from the courts.

[Eddie]

Yes, but his point still stands that everyone knew full well because Russia has a well-documented history of violence. Also, Russia has a massive crime-rate, so it obviously doesn't work that well. If someone goes to another country for 24-48 hours knowing that they might get the sh*t kicked out of them if they do something wrong they can behave, it's quite different when they're back in the country where they spend all of their time and know the ropes.

[thenodrog]

"Tough on Crime.... Tough on the causes of Crime" My arse!

From aol

http://news.aol.co.uk/hundreds-of-prisoner...528071609990002

Apparently Lord Chief Justice Lord Woolf warns of small scale rioting if conditions in prison remain overcrowded in the summer. What a wimp! He should be looking for a new job. Maybe if a few weak individuals are too scared to import a police force maybe we could import Russian prison officers?

Just a thought but letting guilty criminals out halfway through a sentence is undermining and making a mockery of the legal system that imposed that sentence is it not?

[thenodrog]

This wouldn't even be being considered if they had swung. A sickening irony that Sophie Lancaster appealed and pleaded to them as they kicked her to death.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/searc...s_murderers.php

At least it gives the Law Lords the chance to extend the sentences. Lets hope that sense prevails.

btw does anybody think that these scum would be appealing if the Law Lords had execution as one of their options?

Meanwhile.......

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/searc...e_in_prison.php

A lot of the kids on here won't rem this but just what good is there in keeping this evil bstard alive anymore? Just as with the killers of Sophie Lancaster above it would serve the nation far better if the words 'tomorrow morning' followed the judges statement.

[Eddie]

Right...because criminal activity doesn't exist in the United States. Nor did it exist in the UK before the mid-20th century.

[Billy Castell]

And what would happen if the wrong person was executed? A dead person can't do much with an apology and a free meal voucher at Nando's.

[thenodrog]

And what would happen if the wrong person was executed? A dead person can't do much with an apology and a free meal voucher at Nando's.

Billy there is simply no doubt of guilt in either case that I mentioned. You may be too young to rem the Black Panther stuff but he was caught bang to rights whilst the only doubt about the sophie lancaster murder is which persons boot actually provided the death blow. But in the light of the facts surrounding the crime that bit matters little. All 3 have simply forfeited their right to live.

[Eddie]

What's the benefit of killing them?

[colin]

What's the benefit of killing them?

Theno fancies himself as the new Albert Pierrepoint. A reasonably secure job and he'd really enjoy the work.

[thenodrog]

What's the benefit of killing them?

If they made it a public jobby and the rovers were away it'd be a bloody good day out.

... ask a silly question eddie......

[thenodrog]

Theno fancies himself as the new Albert Pierrepoint. A reasonably secure job and he'd really enjoy the work.

Only in cases like these where there is no doubt whatsoever.

................. The others might put me off my tea.

Tell you what.... Shipman would have been sh1t hot at it wouldn't he?

[blue phil]

Theno fancies himself as the new Albert Pierrepoint. A reasonably secure job and he'd really enjoy the work.

A nice , part time job in the public sector . Probably more up your street , Col .....