[Archived] Hang Em High

[den]

Paul, stop being so precious and get over yourself. It was you that chose to associate my views with the actions of Islamist thugs like the Taliban and the Somalian Islamic Courts'. Don't complain subsequently if I describe such an abject response as just that. And yes it was a rather hysterical reaction (and predictably started a mini-bandwagon on which the usual toadies and sheep could leap on).

Well you owe Paul an apology.

I put the idea that what the pro hanging group are advocating, is in essence, what the Taliban are doing in Pakistan right now. It was a view for debate, but Theno decided he'd rather just try to discredit the poster personally. Ah well, nothing changes on here. I half expected the other bruise brother to have taken the same course this morning.

So, do people who support the death penalty support the actions of the Taliban and if not, why not? Serious question.

They satisfy the wishes for making capital punishment a deterrent, - by shooting those found guilty in public. They make sure those guilty don't offend again. They satisfy the family of those wronged, by handing them the guns. Those are the reasons for bringing back hanging put forward by the pro hanging supporters - aren't they?

The only difference in the way America behaves, is that they electrocuted people. Filling people full of bullets is probably far more humane than electrocution, if Paul's account of some culprit taking more than 14 minutes to die is true.

Just a topic for debate chaps.

[gillibrand]

What about lethal injection, would that be more humane.

[den]

What about lethal injection, would that be more humane.

I'm more interested in any objections to the take them out and shoot them policy. That's "humane" isn't it? - and fits all the criteria asked by pro hangers.

[American]

My favorite part about lethal injection is that they swab the area with alcohol first - don't want them getting an infection!

[leftfooter]

Less people in the country, less violence in society, fewer advances in scientific expertise. Still 94 innocent victims though.

Thanks for illustrating my argument for me Matt.

If those 1956 injuries were replicated in a 21st century encironment, where modern medical facilities and life saving techniques were available, the 1956 death toll would ctually have been far lower.

[jim mk2]

I stated that since the turn of the 18th century there is no proof that an innocent person has been executed in the U.S. You still have not offered any proof.

123 and counting according to this website.

http://www.nyadp.org/main/faq

The information is easily obtainable on the internet if you could be bothered to look.

Regarding Bentley, you're arguing about a 50 year old case..........justice to be done AND be seen to have been done by ordinary people...... the fact that their reformist views had little support among the British working class didn't particularly concern them. ....... the likes of Roy Jenkins and Tony Crosland didn't want any of that working class nonsense associated with punishment and retribution thank you very much...... the corollary of all this of course in terms of the death penalty is that is that it is the abandoned poor whose lives have been the most blighted by violent crime .....the abolition of the death penalty was, is and never has been the result of public opinion - particularly working class opinion.

Since when has the "working class" been in favour of the death penalty ? Why do you think that "ordinary people" have this extraordinary blood lust ? The Alf Garnetts of this world of which there are a few on here perhaps might be in favour of capital punishment but I would suggest that vast majority of "ordinary people" are decent folk to whom state execution is abhorrent.

We also have the true slaughter of the innocents running at an industrial 200,000 a year and bound to rise much further.

Pardon ?

[leftfooter]

Well you owe Paul an apology.

I put the idea that what the pro hanging group are advocating, is in essence, what the Taliban are doing in Pakistan right now. It was a view for debate, but Theno decided he'd rather just try to discredit the poster personally. Ah well, nothing changes on here. I half expected the other bruise brother to have taken the same course this morning.

So, do people who support the death penalty support the actions of the Taliban and if not, why not? Serious question.

They satisfy the wishes for making capital punishment a deterrent, - by shooting those found guilty in public. They make sure those guilty don't offend again. They satisfy the family of those wronged, by handing them the guns. Those are the reasons for bringing back hanging put forward by the pro hanging supporters - aren't they?

The only difference in the way America behaves, is that they electrocuted people. Filling people full of bullets is probably far more humane than electrocution, if Paul's account of some culprit taking more than 14 minutes to die is true.

Just a topic for debate chaps.

I must admit to being rather surprised to see that you were about to dive in to a whole world of real grown-ups, adult debate Den, All by yourself and without the water wings.

I had to look twice. All kinds of questions whirred through my mind. As it clicked through the gears I did wonder...Has Den been going to evening classes, reading the Economist or listening to Radio 4?

And no mention of either of your pet single issue fixation subjects? Keith Andrews (no matter what the title of the thread topic) nor the selling of our best midfielder to Spurs in the summer…David...? Oh oh. That explained it. The penny dropped.

No Den, it's not DAVID Bentley - it's DEREK Bentley. They're completely separate topics.

[gillibrand]

I'm more interested in any objections to the take them out and shoot them policy. That's "humane" isn't it? - and fits all the criteria asked by pro hangers.

I think you would agree that there has to be some form of deterrent for such crimes, what would you suggest as a deterrent that would really work?

[den]

Adult world Leftfooter?

Adults can debate without insults. It's obviously beyond you. Apologised to Paul yet?

[Nelsta]

Problem is the Human Rights act simply dosnt work, It only serves to benefit the Jeremy Kyle Generation.

Human rights are something you should earn, not something you are born with.

[thenodrog]

What about lethal injection, would that be more humane.

Who cares? Whats the cheapest?

All this shyte about humane is crap. The likes of Fred and Rose West taped around their victims heads with brown plastic tape before sticking drinking straws through and up their nostrils. The purpose simply to keep them alive and render them unable to scream whilst they tortured them and mutilated their genitalia at length before finally killing them. One thing is for sure they didn't give those poor kids a choice did they?

Human rights are something you should earn, not something you are born with.

Anybody tell me what Human rights actually are?

[Nelsta]

Well i guess, it means prison camps akin to butlins. And that if you protect yourself against a group of thugs you have 2 options, either do nothing and get kicked to death or fight them off and get put in prison.

[thenodrog]

.... I find it really odd that so many people of your beliefs spend more time condemning capital punishment than murder! Misguided emotions and sensibilities imo and you really need to take that on board Den. Tell you what, you find a way of condemning murder to the dark ages and I'll fully support your views on capital punishment.

Stop pontificating and you just concentrate on stopping the causes of Capital punishment Den and I guarantee that you'll get your wish and it'll stop.

Pathetic Gord.

Well you owe Paul an apology.

I put the idea that what the pro hanging group are advocating, is in essence, what the Taliban are doing in Pakistan right now. It was a view for debate, but Theno decided he'd rather just try to discredit the poster personally. Ah well, nothing changes on here. I half expected the other bruise brother to have taken the same course this morning.

So, do people who support the death penalty support the actions of the Taliban and if not, why not? Serious question.

They satisfy the wishes for making capital punishment a deterrent, - by shooting those found guilty in public. They make sure those guilty don't offend again. They satisfy the family of those wronged, by handing them the guns. Those are the reasons for bringing back hanging put forward by the pro hanging supporters - aren't they?

The only difference in the way America behaves, is that they electrocuted people. Filling people full of bullets is probably far more humane than electrocution, if Paul's account of some culprit taking more than 14 minutes to die is true.

Just a topic for debate chaps.

I've given you a topic for debate above and you ignored it. Your response was 'Pathetic Gord'. Is that the level of debate you are suggesting we adopt Den?

You stoic defence of a silly 60's pacifist principle has turned into a mealy mouthed apologist for the perpetrators of the crime. Your not Lord Longfords love child are you? Next you'll be telling us that the multiple child torturer and killer Myra Hindley was just a misunderstood individual.

[leftfooter]

Problem is the Human Rights act simply dosnt work, It only serves to benefit the Jeremy Kyle Generation.

Human rights are something you should earn, not something you are born with.

Exactly.

Would Robinson Crusoe or Adam claim to have had 'human rights'?

Only once they began socially interacting with Friday and Eve could the steps be taken to establish civil rights.

[Rovermatt]

Thanks for illustrating my argument for me Matt.

If those 1956 injuries were replicated in a 21st century encironment, where modern medical facilities and life saving techniques were available, the 1956 death toll would ctually have been far lower.

What does this have to do with deterrence?

[den]

I've given you a topic for debate above and you ignored it. Your response was 'Pathetic Gord'. Is that the level of debate you are suggesting we adopt Den?

You stoic defence of a silly 60's pacifist principle has turned into a mealy mouthed apologist for the perpetrators of the crime. Your not Lord Longfords love child are you? Next you'll be telling us that the multiple child torturer and killer Myra Hindley was just a misunderstood individual.

Your response Gord was again to try to insult a poster.

You continue along the same route with your second quote above. There's no point continuing, because you along with two other posters are going from one topic to another saying absolutely what you want, to who you want. Your not interested in debate, you're simply interested in abuse. Once upon a time you would have been stopped.

The only thing I take from the lack of replies from yourself and Leftfooter, is that you would be quite prepared to see people convicted of murder, taken outside, blindfolded, and the relatives of the victim handed guns and allowed to shoot them in the streets. Thankfully the majority of the civilised world have moved on.

I'm off to look for a car. Can't be doing with you at the moment.

[Rovermatt]

Problem is the Human Rights act simply dosnt work, It only serves to benefit the Jeremy Kyle Generation.

Human rights are something you should earn, not something you are born with.

It ensures you the right to a fair trial. Though I presume you've earned this?

Who cares? Whats the cheapest?

All this shyte about humane is crap. The likes of Fred and Rose West taped around their victims heads with brown plastic tape before sticking drinking straws through and up their nostrils. The purpose simply to keep them alive and render them unable to scream whilst they tortured them and mutilated their genitalia at length before finally killing them. One thing is for sure they didn't give those poor kids a choice did they?

The Wests were pyschopathic monsters. I'm not sure that this is what the state should be aspiring to.

if you protect yourself against a group of thugs you have 2 options, either do nothing and get kicked to death or fight them off and get put in prison.

You're not serious are you?

[broadsword]

If death is the harshest punishment and imprisonment the soft option, why did Fred West hang himself? The sick **** escaped justice in my book, he took the soft way out. Why has Ian Brady been on hunger strike if he has a cushty life?

Lock them up, throw away the key, let them rot.

To kill someone because they themselves are murderers is to show them they did wrong by killing them. There's no logic to it.

The sad fact remains that you can punish someone however you like, it doesn't remove the crime they committed. Although locking them in a cell with two muscular in-mates armed with pliers and carvi9ng knives would be a good start.

I'm no soft-touch, but baying for blood is not the answer.

[AggyBlue]

Lock them up, throw away the key, let them rot.

Too many people see prison as being a rehabilitation program. It isn't, it's for punishment.

Keep them in a separate facility after their punishment has ended to rehabilitate them.

[broadsword]

For some people there's no prospect of rehabilitation.

[Paul]

I must admit to being rather surprised to see that you were about to dive in to a whole world of real grown-ups, adult debate Den, All by yourself and without the water wings.

I had to look twice. All kinds of questions whirred through my mind. As it clicked through the gears I did wonder...Has Den been going to evening classes, reading the Economist or listening to Radio 4?

And no mention of either of your pet single issue fixation subjects? Keith Andrews (no matter what the title of the thread topic) nor the selling of our best midfielder to Spurs in the summer…David...? Oh oh. That explained it. The penny dropped.

No Den, it's not DAVID Bentley - it's DEREK Bentley. They're completely separate topics.

You really are a very ignorant individual.

[1864roverite]

There are some very interesting views on here.

I think that I have a wealth of experience in life, serving in the Armed Forces and now 19 years into my latest career. In that time I have witessed first hand examples of the following:

Iran/Iraq conflict

Northern Ireland bombings and murders

The Gulf war 1 conflict

Capital punishment in public in the Middle East

Numerous homicides (murders)

I do have my own views on captial punishment but will refrain from saying them because you never know who's reading this site these days !

There are arguments for the death penalty and arguments against it. Personally, I think it would be a deterrent but thats all I am prepared to write for obvious reasons.

Someone mentioned the word HUMANE. Does anyone on here think that an offender who commits murders considers the word HUMANE ? I have attended many murder scenes, some plainly horrific, you know the type, multiple stab wounds, tortured corpses, headless corpses, burned corpses and totally decapitated corpses. I dont think for one moment that the person responsible for leaving those bodies in that condition considered the word HUMANE.

So why should an executioner, an offender awaiting the death penalty or the politically correct soft do gooders are scum brigade moan about the "killing" being HUMANE ?

I am not advocating it, but does it matter that it took 14 minutes to "fry" and offender ? Does it matter that it took 2 injections to put one to sleep ? does it matter that it took 25 minutes in a gas chamber to finally snuff out the life of a convicted multiple murderer ? When one considers the crimes they are convicted of it shouldnt really matter should it ?

No offender ever considers the human rights act.

No terrorist ever considers the human rights act, the recklessness of their actions or the consequences of setting a bomb off in public.

No paedophile ever considers his actions before committing his crimes.

No muslim body bomb packing lunatic thinks for a minute who he is going to kill.

So then, why should anyone consider the HUMANE factor when snuffing out the life of a criminal (convicted of a murder or serious offences against children and the like )?

[leftfooter]

You really are a very ignorant individual.

Possibly Paul. But then I wouldn't laugh at somebody whom I haven't even met, that just died of cancer.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

A symbol of Britain's aggressive yob culture

Jake Fahir, above, threw a glass dish in a bakery at 16-year-old Jimmy Mizen, who bled to death when the vessels in his neck were severed.

Fahri grinned after the attack. The court heard that he swaggered from the bakery after the killing and witnesses described a triumphant grin on his face.

19-year-old Fahri had previously taken part in two robberies and a burglary before he was 16. A few months before attacking Jimmy, he completed an 18-month period of supervision for common assault on a girl. He had slapped and kicked a 16-year-old girl at a bus stop.

The father of Jimmy Mizen said yesterday that his son's murder was proof that Britain is becoming increasingly lawless and violent. Barry Mizen said on Friday that Britain is rapidly losing it's civility. What was once a country of fair play, fairness, and a country of safety is rapidly being lost, said Barry.

Fahri's so-called life sentence in prison for murder in practice means that he could be let out in just 14 years. In my view this is not long enough and he should be locked up for far longer.

A full reply to Colin's unpleasant and inaccurate personal criticism of me....

Board members such as 'American' and 'Al', who with some justification have put Colin on 'Ignore', would not have been aware that in the early hours of Friday morning, just after 1am UK time, Colin posted a piece containing unpleasant and inaccurate personal criticism of me.

Fortunately I'm a fast typist and so hopefully this full and detailed response to Colin's criticism of me won't take too long to type. I usually try to ignore Colin's attacks on me. I prefer to debate the topic rather than be sidetracked or diverted by dealing with Colin's criticism of me.

However I have the right to reply to his latest criticism and I will do so.

You rarely post anything Rovers related on here.

Colin, that is inaccurate and a distortion of the facts. You've previously tried to attack me on this before and your criticism doesn't stack up.

I've gone back and checked every post that I've done so far in the month of March and have also checked all the posts that you have done so far in the month of March.

The results are as follows:

Up until 5pm on Saturday March 28th, you have posted 45 times on this website in the month of March - of which 37 posts from you have been in the non-football ICBINF section, one post from you was in Ask Admin, and only 7 posts from you have been in the main football M/B section.

This is currently my 20th post so far in the month of March. 16 of my posts have been in the main football M/B section and this is only my 4th post in the ICNINF section. Nine of my sixteen football posts in the main football section of the M/B have been Rovers-related.

The facts for the month of March so far are clear. You yourself Colin have a far higher ratio of non-football related ICBINF posts than I have.

The vast majority of my posts for this month - 16 out of 20 - have been on the football section of the M/B and 9 out of 16 football posts have been related to Rovers.

I have posted more often about Rovers this month than you have Colin.

On the main football section of the board this month I've posted an analysis of Sam Allardyce, our squad deficiencies and our current relegation position. I've also posted pieces on the Rovers matches with West Ham, Arsenal and Fulham this month.

This Colin was your insightful one-line post on the Fulham match:

F**k me! have we won?

Perhaps Colin you have been too busy late at night on the ICBNIF section to notice my Rovers posts. If you'd like to, I can provide you a link to each and every one of my nine Rovers-related posts this month, which is a higher number of posts related to Rovers than you have managed yourself so far this month.

You've been a prolific poster on the ICBINF section this month Colin, particularly on the "Speed Cameras" thread. You've also posted a joke about a woman who has died from cancer, leaving behind two young boys.

The new topic that you introduced for us this month Colin was a late-night post from you at 1.50am on March 8th, when you complained about swearing in the Blackburn End, in a post which was littered with swear words.

To my left is an apparantly normal bloke.

Apart from his continual, liberal, and perpetual use of....

"F*****g hell.

All help gratefully f******g received.

Oh F******g hell Colin

I've noticed Colin that although you have complained about swearing in the Blackburn End, you have a tendency to swear at other people from the comfort of your chair in front of the keyboard. You have previously told people - rather rudely - to Shut The F___ Up.

To give two such examples....

My neice has just got 3 - B grades; 5 - A grades; & 3 - A* grades.

She wants to eventually become a doctor or surgeon via Oxbridge. She's a 15 year old who lives in Clitheroe. Any of lot got a problem with that?

Let me know. Describe your problems & my neice's inadequacies in detail. Otherwise STFU.

Cast your vote & then STFU.

So says Colin as his Super Atko campaign goes down the drain.

Colin I think you should sometimes ask yourself why it is that board members such as American and Al have put you on 'Ignore'.

I'd suggest that your late-night rudeness to people doesn't help. You can be rude, stroppy and make personal criticism of others which doesn't contribute anything to the debate.

A few years ago on this website we were discussing a terrible case in Wales where a man had snatched a three-year-old girl from her home. Because he was described on the website as a monster - a description you apparently didn't like - you diverted the thread by posting a link to the Teletubbies and talking about Teletubbie monsters.

I found your flippancy on that particular thread disrespectful to victims of such crimes. Roversmum has told us sadly that one of her family members has suffered from abuse. It's a real issue that affects real people's lives and it's a shame Colin that you struggle to contribute to debates like this - preferring instead to attack other board members.

As well as your inaccurate assertion that I rarely post about Rovers which hopefully you will now be able to withdraw - you continued to attack me in your post in the early hours of Friday morning Colin by making an unpleasant, unjustified and unwarranted suggestion that I may need help - just because I had the temerity to post about two sex attackers as part of a wider look at criminal justice system failings in this country.

Do you feel slightly uncomfortable that your concern with horrible sex crimes might just, reflect on you as a person? And maybe a need to seek help.

No Colin. In previous months and years I've sometimes posted about murderers, dangerous drivers, burglaries, robberies, gun and knife crime etc. as well as other issues surrounding the criminal justice system. I would have been happy to continue the discussion about such issues in either the "Bad News Britain" thread or the "Burglar Killed" thread - but both of those threads were locked.

On Thursday March 26th I happened to post two pieces on this thread, one of which concerned Kirk Reid, a man who was allowed to slip through police fingers because of significant blunders from the police. That was the main point I was making. It was not so much the fact that he was a sex offender. It was a post relating to police blunders that led to a dangerous criminal being allowed to carry out a huge number of attacks.

If the attacks on women had been physical attacks rather than sexual attacks then I would have still posted about it too. It was not the sexual element of the attacks that I was focusing on. It was the fact that due to significant police failures he was allowed to get away with it for so long.

The judge in the Kirk Reid case, Judge Shani Barnes, criticised police for their "years of inadequate work". Met Police Commander Mark Simmons said: "It is clear from the evidence heard in court that the standard of investigation was not what we as an organisation or the victims should have expected."

Have you got any comment or anything you would like to add to these issues Colin rather than just making a personal attack against me?

I also posted about Craig Bennett, a sex offender from Darwen, who was let out of jail and raped another boy in the same spot that he attacked another child in 1993.

Det Sgt Ian Procter, of Lancashire Police, said: "Bennett is a dangerous, manipulative, shameless individual who clearly presents a significant risk to children."

The question that I raised in my post was why it was that a dangerous individual was released into the community when he clearly represents a significant risk to children.

Again Colin, if you have any comments on that then please feel free to add to the debate. Have you got any concerns that Bennett was released into the community and able to attack another boy again or do you just prefer to attack me?

Have you any thoughts on the actual issues raised in the cases themselves and have you got any views on the failings of the criminal justice system, rather than simply attacking another board member like me.

AESF,

You've just posted news of two sex attacks in 24 hours. Neither of which has anything to do with Rovers

Have you ever heard of the phrase "Don't shoot the messenger" Colin? It's clear to everybody that those two particular posts were not to do with Rovers. The vast majority of your posts this month have not had anything to do with Rovers.

16 out of my 20 posts so far this month have been on the football section of the thread, a higher ratio of football posts than yourself Colin. Overall you have made a total of 35 posts on the current speed cameras thread. Would you like me to descend to your level and to say that speed cameras have nothing to do with Rovers?

I made two posts on Thursday, related to sex attackers, but posted as part of a wider look at failings in the criminal justice system. It seems that you were unable to recognise the points I was making, unable to debate the issues raised, and instead chose to attack me. That says more about you than it does about me.

I'm happy to debate lots of different issues - public transport, schools, hospitals, councils, politicians - all of which in previous months and years I have posted on. It seems that you Colin have a problem with me mentioning sex attackers as part of a wider look at failings in the criminal justice system.

I usually try to ignore your personal criticism of me Colin. On this occasion I feel it is one attack too many and I need to respond to it.

I hope now Colin that you'll be able to apologise for your inaccurate criticism that I rarely post about Rovers. I'd also be grateful if you could please refrain from making further personal criticism of me.

[thenodrog]

Your response Gord was again to try to insult a poster.

You continue along the same route with your second quote above. There's no point continuing, because you along with two other posters are going from one topic to another saying absolutely what you want, to who you want. Your not interested in debate, you're simply interested in abuse. Once upon a time you would have been stopped.

The only thing I take from the lack of replies from yourself and Leftfooter, is that you would be quite prepared to see people convicted of murder, taken outside, blindfolded, and the relatives of the victim handed guns and allowed to shoot them in the streets. Thankfully the majority of the civilised world have moved on.

I'm off to look for a car. Can't be doing with you at the moment.

Pathetic Den.