[Archived] Hang Em High

[Flopsy]

Sharia law it is then

[BuckyRover]

I think someone has been whipped up into a frenzy. I blame Murdoch. I don't want to live in a country where it is "ok" to smash a cricket bat on someones head and give them brain damage. The CPS would have come down quite strongly in this case. Robbery and imprisonment is a serious crime. I think sone builders in Bradford got sentenced to 8 years the other day for a similar offence.

I find it strange that many people advocate negating the law and taking it in their own hands. There is a word for that; anarchy!

[broadsword]

I know, I'd have full sympathy if it happened in the house with the guy defending his family, he didnt, he chased them down after there was no more threat to him or his family.

The bloke's fully at fault then.

He should've grabbed hold of the geezer while he was still indoors and given him a good @#/?.

[Stuart]

I think someone has been whipped up into a frenzy. I blame Murdoch. I don't want to live in a country where it is "ok" to smash a cricket bat on someones head and give them brain damage. The CPS would have come down quite strongly in this case. Robbery and imprisonment is a serious crime. I think sone builders in Bradford got sentenced to 8 years the other day for a similar offence.

I find it strange that many people advocate negating the law and taking it in their own hands. There is a word for that; anarchy!

No Bucky, I want the sentences to be more of a deterrent. So 8 years watching dvds and playing on playstations is enough, is it? This country is ALREADY going to the dogs a bit of vigilante justice is hardly the worst thing going on.

Whilst I'm not saying that what happened was the best outcome, if someone did that to my family, I'm not sure exactly how I'd handle the situation. I would very likely not be thinking very clearly at the time.

Like I said though, why don't you or Colin write a letter to the parents of Craig Hodson-Walker and tell them that 34 years is enough and that justice has been done. Particularly when they will likely be out in half of that after picking up a degree or skill of some sort (at best) before being released, and likely without any remorse, and (most likely) turning back to crime. While all the parents have is memories of their son. His poor father will probably go to bed every night wishing he had been the one who died instead.

Justice? Pah! Sympathy for the types of criminals in this thread? Not for me.

[Rovermatt]

Nobody has expressed sympathy for the criminals in this thread. Unless of course you're including cricket bat man in that category.

[broadsword]

There was a burglar got caught in someone's house in America recently. nearest thing the home-owner could lay hands on was a samurai sword.

I believe he actually got away with it.

[thenodrog]

There was a burglar got caught in someone's house in America recently. nearest thing the home-owner could lay hands on was a samurai sword.

I believe he actually got away with it.

Quite right too. I'm damned sure that given a choice of a samurai sword, a wet towel or a pillow I'd go for the sword myself. Who wouldn't?

Things happen so fast that there is a case of the mind not working as logically as it would in the cold light of day. Fear and adrenalin is a potent mix..... but note a completely natural one! It's there to save us and our kin from predators and the like. I find it odd that this is not a normal defence and taken very much into consideration for this kind of situation.

[broadsword]

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2009-09-16/news/0909150076_1_samurai-sword-samurai-weapon-pontolillo

[colin]

I see you managed to avoid answering either of my questions though and instead simply try to discredit my opinion. Bravo.

Jisty,

Not discrediting your opinions. Just trying to disagree with you without being disagreeable. (an art that maybe I, and every other internet discussion forum poster, needs to practice.)

BTW, I wasn't being sarcky about your photo links

Cheers

Colin

[broadsword]

Oh ... and talking of crime not paying, have a look at this:

[thenodrog]

Quite right too. I'm damned sure that given a choice of a samurai sword, a wet towel or a pillow I'd go for the sword myself. Who wouldn't?

Things happen so fast that there is a case of the mind not working as logically as it would in the cold light of day. Fear and adrenalin is a potent mix..... but note a completely natural one! It's there to save us and our kin from predators and the like. I find it odd that this is not a normal defence and taken very much into consideration for this kind of situation.

Right on cue Bryan. Ta.

"He was backed up against a corner and either out of fear or out of panic, he just struck the sword with force," said Baltimore Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi. "It was probably with fear for his life."

Pontolillo, who rents the house in the 300 block of E. University Parkway in the Oakenshawe neighborhood, struck the intruder no more than twice, police say, nearly severing his left hand and inflicting what police termed a "spear laceration."

The intruder, Donald D. Rice of Baltimore, a 49-year-old repeat offender who had been released from jail only Saturday, died at the bloody scene.

Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.

[BiggusLaddus]

An interesting viewpoint. It suggests that beating someone over the head so that they have brain damage is a substitute for the law of the land is acceptable behaviour.

Careful where you drop litter, or exceed the speed limit next time. (Not that I think you do either) I'll be there with Tiger Wood's golf clubs (I've just borrowed them) and I'll be there to administer a benefit for all of society.

BTW, What's the cost to society of looking after someone with brain damage & in a wheel chair for the rest of their lives?

I believe that in this case the police were unable to catch either of the other burglars involved and the one who was beaten did not even get a custodial sentence despite having 50 previous convictions and on this occassion using a knife to threaten his bound victims. Perhaps Mr Hussain could be forgiven for not having much faith in criminal justice system doing its job.

Yes if you look at it with a rational mind then he went too far, rounding up help, chasing down and then beating him half to death went way beyond being defensive. But how many people on this forum can honestly say that they would act rationally if they were in his situation? I have no idea how I would react - I can imagine myself doing everything from being ultra-compliant to make it as quick and easy as possible, to going several steps further than Mr Hussain did.

*edit to add* Perhaps treating him for life will be cheaper than the cost of paying for his lifetime as a career criminal.

[Paul]

But how many people on this forum can honestly say that they would act rationally if they were in his situation? I have no idea how I would react -

I know I'd act rationally if I found a burglar in my house. Rational means protecting yourself and family so anyone burgling our house would be left to leave freely for the simple reason threatening violence might result in violence toward us. At 55 I don't feel inclined to physically take on someone who might be at least 30 years younger. I don't have any poessessions that can't be replaced or are worth losing life and limb for. If my family were being physically threatened that would be something else, not that we have anything other than kitchen knives in the house!

To those who think it justifiable to round up a posse, chase and beat a man senseless, be careful what you wish for. A society that allows such actions will become increasingly lawless and not necessarily safer. Might satisfy people's lust for revenge but won't prevent crime. Burglars etc will simly up the ante and start carrying weapons themselves.

[broadsword]

You'd do whatever you had to do to protect you and your's.

The issue at stake is not whether you'd act irrationally, but whether you'd act proportionately.

Take the example of the guy with the samurai sword, he's been burgled before, he's heard a noise, he's gonna be scared and his adrenaline is pumping. The first thing to hand is a samurai sword. To me it doesn't matter if the burglar isn't threatening him in an equal manner. He lashes out instinctively and the guy dies. Of course you're going to defend yourself first and worry about proportionate responses afterwards. If you're going to be worried about whether the law will take your side or not, you could end up as toast.

On the other hand, chasing someone down the road is obviously not self-defence because they're fleeing. I can understand the anger, but that doesn't mean it's right.

[Flopsy]

The bloke's fully at fault then.

He should've grabbed hold of the geezer while he was still indoors and given him a good @#/?.

And no jury in the land would have convicted him, and rightly so. In the house is a clear threat, outside running down the street away from the house, is not a threat

[thenodrog]

And no jury in the land would have convicted him, and rightly so. In the house is a clear threat, outside running down the street away from the house, is not a threat

Sounds like the scroat escaped normal justice so summary justice is a much better option than no justice.

Flopsy just as an aside why are you arguing so strongly in favour of parasitical low lifes? If we had to take sides then it appears that you are with the criminals.

[thenodrog]

I know I'd act rationally if I found a burglar in my house. Rational means protecting yourself and family so anyone burgling our house would be left to leave freely for the simple reason threatening violence might result in violence toward us. At 55 I don't feel inclined to physically take on someone who might be at least 30 years younger. I don't have any poessessions that can't be replaced or are worth losing life and limb for. If my family were being physically threatened that would be something else, not that we have anything other than kitchen knives in the house!

Now lots would deem you short of ###### after that but many people would suggest that's very clear thinking of you Paul and very forgiving too. Personally I couldn't possibly comment but next time the druggies fancy an easy blag it's likely round to your house again (rather than the possibility of picking on a nasty Hussain type). Be careful though you might not be in next time!....

On the other hand I guess people like you cornering the market on providing easy entry and even easier pickings allows the rest of us to sleep much sounder in our beds. Very public spirited if thats the case. Thanks.

Anyway here's a comforting thought...... 30% of murders in the UK are carried out with knives.

http://www.eatmedaily.com/2009/02/making-the-common-kitchen-knife-less-useful-as-a-murder-weapon/

[Rovermatt]

Flopsy just as an aside why are you arguing so strongly in favour of parasitical low lifes? If we had to take sides then it appears that you are with the criminals.

Is he?

[Paul]

and very forgiving too.

Not at all forgiving, quite simply I'm not going to take on a criminal who may be drug or alcohol fueled for the sake of a few insured poessessions. If some folk want to risk serious injury defending their property that's OK with me.

[broadsword]

I'm not really up with burglary but I guess most are just looking to nick your telly and other consumer goods? How much do burglars usually get away with? I mean, they don't load it all into the back of a van do they, they can only nick as much as they can get into a car. Even then they're not going to be going back and forth like a family removals firm. Unless of course no-one's home and they can work without getting spotted.

How likely is it to escalate beyond that?

What is uppermost in my mind is that:-

a) They'll be after jewellery too maybe, which means the bedroom.

b.) Breaking into your house is violating your privacy, wouldn't that really rile you? I know it would make me angry.

But then this is all probably academic for me, I am the deepest sleeper I know. But if I was awoken then I'd say there'd be a good chance I'd be going down there, if they want to take on 15 stones of fast-moving cheesed-off Bryan then good luck to them.

doubly-academic anyway as I live in a very low burglary area.

[MeanGreenMachine]

If a burgler enters your home they loose any right and law that can protect them.

[colin]

Sounds like the scroat escaped normal justice so summary justice is a much better option than no justice.

(he didn't, he was rendered unable to plead)

Really? Being rendered unconcious, brain damage & battered by a cricket bat that broke in pieces is your idea of "justice?"

(1)Would you like to desrcibe what kind of retribition you would consider unacceptable in this case. The brain damage is obviously OK by you.

(2)Presumably you are more Charles Bronson than Charles Hawtry in these matters. How does the Charles Hawtry personality deal with this kind of situation to attain your ideal?

(3)Please stop being all Dirty Harry on us, If you were faced with a burglar you'd do the same as Paul & me and the rest of us and just ask them to go away and you'd protect your family. Your dreams of violent retribution are just dreams. You've watched too many American films.

[Paul]

I'm not really up with burglary but I guess most are just looking to nick your telly and other consumer goods? How much do burglars usually get away with? I mean, they don't load it all into the back of a van do they, they can only nick as much as they can get into a car. Even then they're not going to be going back and forth like a family removals firm. Unless of course no-one's home and they can work without getting spotted.

How likely is it to escalate beyond that?

What is uppermost in my mind is that:-

a) They'll be after jewellery too maybe, which means the bedroom.

b.) Breaking into your house is violating your privacy, wouldn't that really rile you? I know it would make me angry.

But then this is all probably academic for me, I am the deepest sleeper I know. But if I was awoken then I'd say there'd be a good chance I'd be going down there, if they want to take on 15 stones of fast-moving cheesed-off Bryan then good luck to them.

doubly-academic anyway as I live in a very low burglary area.

I suspect the average burglar is after easy pickings and anxious to avoid capture. Sure he / she will be after high value stuff and that would mean jewellery but it would be an especially stupid burglar who decided to enter our bedroom while we were asleep. It's obvious from the downstairs there will be little upstairs worth risking discovery for. If we were burgled I could write a list of the stuff likely to go and all of it could be replaced in a day.

Yes I'd feel angry and violated like everyone else. However if I arm myself and confront said burglar who then turns on me with a weapon I risk death. Is it worth dieing for a couple of laptops and a DVD player? I don't think so, I'd rather live and feel angry and violated for a few days. I fully agree people have a right to defend their property with reasonable force. No problem. I just feel the risk is too great.

I think my wife and children would prefer to have a husband and father than our rather old DVD player. Clearly this means I lack big balls in the eyes of some, it does indicate a measure of commonsense though.

[thenodrog]

I suspect the average burglar is after easy pickings and anxious to avoid capture. Sure he / she will be after high value stuff and that would mean jewellery but it would be an especially stupid burglar who decided to enter our bedroom while we were asleep. It's obvious from the downstairs there will be little upstairs worth risking discovery for. If we were burgled I could write a list of the stuff likely to go and all of it could be replaced in a day.

Yes I'd feel angry and violated like everyone else. However if I arm myself and confront said burglar who then turns on me with a weapon I risk death. Is it worth dieing for a couple of laptops and a DVD player? I don't think so, I'd rather live and feel angry and violated for a few days. I fully agree people have a right to defend their property with reasonable force. No problem. I just feel the risk is too great.

I think my wife and children would prefer to have a husband and father than our rather old DVD player. Clearly this means I lack big balls in the eyes of some, it does indicate a measure of commonsense though.

You talk about an average burglar and then suggest that the average burglar will have a weapon?

If you arm yourself its 50:50 but with your attitude of appeasement you are neither protecting yourself nor much worse your family. It really is up to you which you choose but to be empty handed by choice and based on the surmisation that a burglar's actions are completely predictable is the choice of a fool.

When you and your missus are tied to a chair by two burglars, one with a pistol thats just been pushed in your mouth with enough force to smash your teeth and with a kettle of boiling water held over you until you reveal where the safe is when as in this case you don't even have one! as my neighbours were then you may feel differently about things. I'm not saying sleeping with a loaded 12 bore shotgun under the bed is the best option but at least it's an option!

[thenodrog]

(he didn't, he was rendered unable to plead)

Really? Being rendered unconcious, brain damage & battered by a cricket bat that broke in pieces is your idea of "justice?"

(1)Would you like to desrcibe what kind of retribition you would consider unacceptable in this case. The brain damage is obviously OK by you.

OCCUPATIONAL HAZARD AND THATS THAT. TRAWLERMEN KNOW THERE ARE RISKS DOING THEIR JOB AND DON'T WHINGE WHEN THEY HEAR ABOUT LIVES BEING LOST ON THE HIGH SEAS. IF THEY WERE REALLY SO WORRIED ABOUT THEIR SAFETY THEY'D FIND ANOTHER JOB. DITTO FOR FELONS.

(2)Presumably you are more Charles Bronson than Charles Hawtry in these matters. How does the Charles Hawtry personality deal with this kind of situation to attain your ideal? MARRIES A WOMAN THE SIZE OF HATTIE JAQUES.

(3)Please stop being all Dirty Harry on us, If you were faced with a burglar you'd do the same as Paul & me and the rest of us and just ask them to go away and you'd protect your family. Your dreams of violent retribution are just dreams. You've watched too many American films.

SCARED SHITLESS TO BE TRUTHFUL. I DID NOT KNOW WHO OR WHAT IS DOWNSTAIRS BUT I STILL WENT DOWN. MAYBE NOT THINKING STRAIGHT BUT WHO DOES THINK RATIONALLY AND LOGICALLY WHEN SUDDENLY AWOKEN BY A BUMP IN THE NIGHT? NEVER SINCE THAT HAPPENED HAVE I NOT KEPT A COUPLE OF WEAPONS UPSTAIRS AND HANDY.

BTW... WHAT WOULD YOU DO COLIN? OFFER TO ROLL EM A SPLIFF OR SIMILAR?