[Archived] Hang Em High

[jim mk2]

Thats the key point for me, we haven't succeeded in intergrating them into our society. Our attempts at diplomacy, tolerance, treading on eggshells for the last 2 decades have done nothing except seemingly drive them further away. Extremism appears to be on the rise, as does undisguised racism against white people. What happened to Lee Rigby is the crossing of a threshold to me. If its got to the point where a random white person can be literally butchered in the street in broad daylight in the name of Islam, by people who live in this country, then a change of approach is needed and fast.

So either we need a new approach or we need to conceed than integration isn't gonna happen and to stop trying to make it work. If its the second approach then it needs to be a case of saying do what you want but do it strictly within the laws of this country. Any stepping outside of the laws will be dealt with in exactly the same way as white people are. No more positive discrimination basically, no more treading on eggshells and no more actually giving a stuff about police/government relations with Muslim communities. These are the rules, in black and white, no special consideration and if you don't like it tough.

Personally I wish that wasn't necessary and we could continue a friendly, softly-softly and relaxed approach. But if this was a science experiment the results would be considered conclusive by now. And that woman might be convinced about who'll win but I'm not. Look at Pakistan, Libya, Egypt, Somalia, Sudan, Mali, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan and Indonesia for examples of where civilised moderates are losing against Islamist doctrine.

More mythology. Courts and police deal with people according to the law and in an even-handed way. If anything the police crack down on minorities more - look at the police figures for stopping people and arrests white v blacks. I'm not saying police are institutionally racist but some people look at those figures and draw their own conclusions.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

More mythology. Courts and police deal with people according to the law and in an even-handed way. If anything the police crack down on minorities more - look at the police figures for stopping people and arrests white v blacks. I'm not saying police are institutionally racist but some people look at those figures and draw their own conclusions.

Where do you live? Its pretty rich instantly dismissing the comments of someone from Blackburn with the 5-10 different descriptions of garbage you've already used when you don't even think grooming is a common problem. As Abbey says anyone who goes to the Blackburn cinema on a regular basis can see indications of it happening right in front of them.

If courts and police deal with people in an even-handed way then why have I never seen a traffic warden in Whalley Range? Why did Abbey nearly get arrested in his example after being the victim or racist abuse? Why have I been glared at by groups of Muslim lads simply for walking through Corporation Park? I've seen 4x4s with blacked out windows crawling around certain estates late at night (drug dealing), parents of Westholme kids getting spat on as they walked past asians on the school run, white women having obscenities shouted at them for wearing something a bit racy for a night out. I've even played in a footy match where we were having racist abuse shouted at us all game. I could go on and on but I'm as uncomfortable saying all this as I'm sure other people are hearing it.

In my opinion some of this stuff is happening because some Muslim men think, and with some justification, that they are outside the law. They think people won't dare say anything to them for fear of intimidation, and the police will avoid getting involved where possible for fear of being branded racist. Its not rocket science, adults like children push the limits on what they can get away with until they meet resistance. And if you're a minority in this country those limits stretch further than if you're white. You're in a cocooned little world if you don't live amongst all this, see it every day, and think a set of figures tells you the story of whats actually going on.

[ABBEY]

More mythology. Courts and police deal with people according to the law and in an even-handed way. If anything the police crack down on minorities more - look at the police figures for stopping people and arrests white v blacks. I'm not saying police are institutionally racist but some people look at those figures and draw their own conclusions.

so a muslim burning poppies gets a £50 fine and someone who has a go at them for doing this gets £350 ?

jim put look north west on now, its about rochdale council. Try spinning this.

[ABBEY]

RAF fighter jets are escorting a Pakistan Interntional Airlines aircraft from
Manchester to Stansted Airport.

[Steve Moss]

To quote Jim Bennett "democracy, open immigration, multiculturalism: Pick any two."

Thats the key point for me, we haven't succeeded in intergrating them into our society.

I don't think it's a matter of you failing, but more one that they have no desire to integrate. They don't want to become English.

It could be because they feel contempt for the West and believe it would be better to re-model it on those places where they come from.

More likely, in my opinion, is that there is no pressing socio-economic need for them to integrate. The benefits system is so pervasive that there is no pressure to produce, which means there is no pressure to integrate for financial or social purposes.

I also think many immigrant only to get on the benefit system. http://rt.com/news/stockholm-violence-outbreak-fires-671/

[Tom]

RAF fighter jets are escorting a Pakistan Interntional Airlines aircraft from

Manchester to Stansted Airport.

Is this directly Relevent to the discussion? Not sure what's gone on is there info about it?

[jim mk2]

To More likely, in my opinion, is that there is no pressing socio-economic need for them to integrate. The benefits system is so pervasive that there is no pressure to produce, which means there is no pressure to integrate for financial or social purposes.

More myths exploded

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/28/immigrants-eu-benefits-welfare-magnet

Try again.

[Amo]

I would tend to agree that the wider Muslim community need to make a stand against the extremist element within their culture. Someone (I think it was LeChuck?) made the point that we don't need to apologize whenever a British person commits a similar crime. It's not an equatable situation. This isn't an ethnic or civic issue, this is something tied to the dogma of the Islamic faith. It's one thing for the Muslim community to pay lipservice to these crimes after the fact, but another for them to take proactive steps against those fundamentalists. For example, the poppy-burning incident. How many of the Muslim community actually made an effort to challenge the vocal minority of their faith circle? Their inaction only serves to fan the flames of division and propagate the 'us vs. them' mentality, which is in the best interests of those at the top of the chain.

[broadsword]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22658979

[JAL]

Can anyone point out the pool of blood around the victim ?

[jim mk2]

I would tend to agree that the wider Muslim community need to make a stand against the extremist element within their culture. Someone (I think it was LeChuck?) made the point that we don't need to apologize whenever a British person commits a similar crime. It's not an equatable situation. This isn't an ethnic or civic issue, this is something tied to the dogma of the Islamic faith. It's one thing for the Muslim community to pay lipservice to these crimes after the fact, but another for them to take proactive steps against those fundamentalists. For example, the poppy-burning incident. How many of the Muslim community actually made an effort to challenge the vocal minority of their faith circle? Their inaction only serves to fan the flames of division and propagate the 'us vs. them' mentality, which is in the best interests of those at the top of the chain.

I look forward to you tackling local members of the BNP and English Defence League.

Good luck.

[gumboots]

The problem is that everything takes time. Have just been to leavers assembly. The kids in our school are fantastic. But for them, family and tradition are still very strong - it's hard to speak out against things if it means falling out with your family and your whole culture. All we can do is make a difference to the way they perceive white people . People remain entrenched in their ideas if they are never made to see any other way of doing things, and feel they are threatened. I'm with everyone else here that the full force of the law should come down on all who break the laws of the land regardless of their religious beliefs or lack of them. They should not be allowed to behave in some of the threatening ways mentioned here and if they do they should not expect to get away with it. But what else can we do but try to integrate, try to show that different does not mean worse. We can't send them anywhere else. The majority are now 3rd or 4th generation. They cannot go anywhere else and fit in, so they are, if they are a problem at all, a problem that we have to deal with here and now.

[ABBEY]

THIS IS SO SICK BEYOND BELIEF

[ABBEY]

twitter now reporting a man running amok at london bridge station with an axe!

wtf is going on in this country.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/402325/London-Bridge-train-station-closed-amid-Twitter-reports-of-man-carrying-an-axe

[ABBEY]

Is this directly Relevent to the discussion? Not sure what's gone on is there info about it?

unconfirmed reports two tried to storm the cockpit.

[gumboots]

It's not being treated as terror realted according to the police though

[Majiball]

To quote Jim Bennett "democracy, open immigration, multiculturalism: Pick any two."I don't think it's a matter of you failing, but more one that they have no desire to integrate. They don't want to become English.

It could be because they feel contempt for the West and believe it would be better to re-model it on those places where they come from.

More likely, in my opinion, is that there is no pressing socio-economic need for them to integrate. The benefits system is so pervasive that there is no pressure to produce, which means there is no pressure to integrate for financial or social purposes.

I also think many immigrant only to get on the benefit system. http://rt.com/news/stockholm-violence-outbreak-fires-671/

I'd like to see more US like admission into our country, learn the language, history, athemn, culture, and so on.

We get slatted as a people for forming communities abroad and yet here? I'd also like to see us stop the benefits system in it's current form we'll have millions of new EU members here soon and we're @#/? as country financially. It's bizarre for me as 50-60 years ago we were a nation that stood up for itself and now we just roll over and take it like a pussy. My gran was discussing this the other day and said my grandad would be ashamed to see what this country has become after he gave his life so this could be created. I see the route cause lying in parliment and everyone of them should hang their heads in shame and go have a hot bath with a toaster. But nothing will ever change we've created a nation of sheep and if being honest your probably better off moving abroad as this country is going down the shitter.

[gumboots]

And it's really better elsewhere? France is not, don't know about other countries in Europe and I couldn't live in Germany despite speaking the language and having grandchildren who are German. thing is, everywhere has problems and nobody has solutions. Perhaps it's just me but i tend to find most people are kind and thoughtful if you give them the chance to be. Yes, there are things going wrong but there's a lot that's positive out there - it just doesn't make the headlines. This week, as I said earlier I have laughed and cried with loads of Muslim kids, been hugged by them and been given gifts by them. I've been told they'll never forget me and I hope that is true because then they'll have an example in front of them of someone who did not judge them, but cared for them as individuals, who wasn't afraid to tell them what I thought of them when they needed it but was there to support them when they needed that too. Someone who wasn't afraid to challenge their traditions and suggest that they did too. Someone who told them that they had a brain to think and make their own choices and to not let themselves be bullied into doing things just because that's what their parents wanted or their religion appeared to demand. I can honestly say that I loved the kids in my care and will love the next lot too. I still see some of my previous pupils around and they all greet me with affection and ask after my family and so on. It's all about learning and earning mutual respect.

[thenodrog]

All this will do is ensure there are more reprisal attacks, increase the resentment between the Asians (regardless of whether they are muslim or not) and the rest of the population.

At the end of the day, there is a problem, one that many on both "sides" acknowledge but have failed to address or even come to terms with.

It's sad to say, but there are problems, such as this, world wide; and it's pointing in one direction as to where the problem emanates from.

What would I do with these two?

1. Keep them alive.

2. Convict them.

3. Keep them in jail for the full sentence, no parole.

4. At the end of their sentence, let them find a country compatible with their beliefs.

5. If they can't find some country to take them, lock them away, give them no special treatment, for the rest of their natural life.

6. But above all do not allow them to have a soapbox to spout their hatred and bile.

You were doing well in a soppy liberally sort of way Dave until you got to 4.

[thenodrog]

The Muslim Council of Britain said the murder was "a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly".

Do you publicly apologise for things white British people do? These disgusting human beings that carry out attacks like yesterday have nothing to do with 99.99% of the Muslims in Britain. They might read the same book but that is it.

Dangerous talk Lechuck. Fact remains that despite fully being aware through the lessons of history about the intolerance and the everlasting conflict between the world of Islam and just about everybody else that the west has allowed through liberal intentioned stupidity this wicked religion to not only gain a foothold but to encourage it to flourish and spread within it's boundaries.

A comparison might be be to compare the situation to people receiving blood transfusions in the 80's with blood donated by Aids sufferers. It might have been well intentioned and even kind BUT survival becomes just a matter of time and the end result will not be good.

[thenodrog]

Within hours of the incident Muslim organisations the length of the country issued statements condemning the attack. I know because I was reading them on the newswires last night. They can be easily found on the internet if you look.

A couple of warnings beforehand would have a much better effect on public opinion than a load of mealy mouthed statements accompanied by the usual hand wringing and crocodile tears, don't you think?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

And it's really better elsewhere? France is not, don't know about other countries in Europe and I couldn't live in Germany despite speaking the language and having grandchildren who are German. thing is, everywhere has problems and nobody has solutions. Perhaps it's just me but i tend to find most people are kind and thoughtful if you give them the chance to be. Yes, there are things going wrong but there's a lot that's positive out there - it just doesn't make the headlines. This week, as I said earlier I have laughed and cried with loads of Muslim kids, been hugged by them and been given gifts by them. I've been told they'll never forget me and I hope that is true because then they'll have an example in front of them of someone who did not judge them, but cared for them as individuals, who wasn't afraid to tell them what I thought of them when they needed it but was there to support them when they needed that too. Someone who wasn't afraid to challenge their traditions and suggest that they did too. Someone who told them that they had a brain to think and make their own choices and to not let themselves be bullied into doing things just because that's what their parents wanted or their religion appeared to demand. I can honestly say that I loved the kids in my care and will love the next lot too. I still see some of my previous pupils around and they all greet me with affection and ask after my family and so on. It's all about learning and earning mutual respect.

Much too sensible a response Gumboots, Are you sure you don't won't to join the " hang 'em and flog 'em " gang.

I also work in a comprehensive school and I feel the same way as you. We've got plenty of Muslim kids who are great and a few Muslim kids who are keaners. Ditto the white kids. I think they'll sort it out in their own time if they're left alone.

[thenodrog]

The Liberal Elite make me sick, they bend over backwards for Muslims. I bet these murderers that were living on benefits from the State that they hate so much.

I dont like Muslims, never had done and dont care that i'm labelled a racist. The way they treat women is disgusting, bullies the lot of them.

You can't be and if you are it will only be by intellectual derelicts. You might well be labelled a religious bigot though.

[thenodrog]

Maybe it's not the entire Muslims not integrating etc, but alls you need to do is drive round Blackburn these days and see how many fully integrated mask wearing women there are. They are allowed to drive wearing them and even go in banks( imagine if I went in Barclays balaclava style) .

Bloody odd isn't it? Every time there is a news item from any of the IndoPak nations I never see any of the women in burka's. So why on earth do they wear them here? It's not down to religion, it's not down to custom, it's not down to homesickness and it's certainly not down to the weather. Anybody care to propose a valid reason?

None of this is true and is just standard alarmist stuff you see on anti-Islamist websites and blogs.

As far as I am aware those marches took place many years ago, and are not "far from uncommon" (when was the last march ? - please show evidence) if only because in the past they usually provoke similar marches and confrontations with the EDL.

There have been islolated cases of Muslim gangs involved with white girls but to say it is a "countrywide practice" is clearly nonsense.

Is it? Why do you say that? Try cutting and pasting these words into google............ "oxford grooming tip of the iceberg".

[thenodrog]

Much too sensible a response Gumboots, Are you sure you don't won't to join the " hang 'em and flog 'em " gang.

Exactly what would you do with this pair once we've patched em up enough to interrogate them fully? Do you think mistaken identity might be a valid defence? How about they were under the influence of dring / drugs? Temporary insanity? How about self defence cos that soldier jumped out at their car on the pavement in a threatening manner? They are bang to rights guilty of an outrageous and horrific atrocity on an innocent person who they did not even know. There really is no justification for allowing them to continue living either here or anywhere else. Best thing to do is to execute them over the same length of time that they took to kill their victim and allow their God to judge I'd suggest. I'm sure it's what they want. Who knows they might get a few dozen virgins each to bang away at to eternity and beyond and what right have we to deny them that?