[Archived] Hang Em High

[jim mk2]

Great idea Gordon... execute and make martyrs of them. Jihadists the world over will love you. Now go and live in the US with all the other hang and flog brigade.

[adopted scouser]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JDwUpv90QEE

The EDL don't need propaganda, Anjem does all the work for them

[DE.]

I'm not actually opposed to giving Choudary time on air. Ignoring people like him won't make them disappear, and his views right now are very relevant to the overall topic. What I do object to is putting him in a 7 minute segment with little real debate. If you're going to put him on TV then make it a longer format with a carefully devised schedule during which he can be shown to be the utter fool he is. There's no need to interrupt him or chastise him like a child because his own words reveal the ignorance and rank stupidity of his beliefs. Put a few smart people on a panel with him - Muslim or not - and it won't be long before he's been made to look like the idiot he is.

[dave birch]

You were doing well in a soppy liberally sort of way Dave until you got to 4.

Hardly, Gordon.

Remember, these scumbags have been brought up in a soft western environment.

How do you think they'll manage, in winter in the mountains in Afghanistan, or the wilds of the southern Sahara fighting for their lives, constantly on the move, always looking over their shoulder.

And it wouldn't be costing the UK government anything.

[ABBEY]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JDwUpv90QEE

The EDL don't need propaganda, Anjem does all the work for them

fffs julie ???? f julie ???

@#/? off choudary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hang this @#/? for treason,,,,,,,,,,@#/? im so angry watching this @#/?

[ABBEY]

I'm not actually opposed to giving Choudary time on air. Ignoring people like him won't make them disappear, and his views right now are very relevant to the overall topic. What I do object to is putting him in a 7 minute segment with little real debate. If you're going to put him on TV then make it a longer format with a carefully devised schedule during which he can be shown to be the utter fool he is. There's no need to interrupt him or chastise him like a child because his own words reveal the ignorance and rank stupidity of his beliefs. Put a few smart people on a panel with him - Muslim or not - and it won't be long before he's been made to look like the idiot he is.

JUST HANG THE @#/? FOR TREAASON ..IM @#/? BOILING NOW BLOOD PRESSURE SOARING

[gumboots]

Great idea Gordon... execute and make martyrs of them. Jihadists the world over will love you. Now go and live in the US with all the other hang and flog brigade.

this is one of the difficult issues surely, that hanging would make them martyrs and suck in more vulnerable young men to their extremist ways. I'm not a fan of capital punishment at any time but here I think it would be downright stupid. Nor do I think they should be treated differently from any other prisoners who commit murder and there are plenty who do. Prison has a way of sorting out those it doesn't like. You'd be surprised or perhaps not, at the level of violence that goes on in prisons around the country.

[Steve Moss]

I never understood the concept that we musn't make martyrs of religious extremists. For one, it only appears to apply to Muslims. I don't hear anyone worrying about maing martyrs out of Christian or Jewish extremists.

And aren't we impliedly admitting that Muslims are more li kely to be moved to violence if we make "martyrs" out of their co-religionists (i.e. kill rabid out of control murderers of innocents)?

I don't know about you, but if we execute a murdering Methodist I really don't feel the need, as a fellow Methodist, to go out and avenge his or her death. So what is it about Muslims that causes us to react or think differently?

[dave birch]

I never understood the concept that we musn't make martyrs of religious extremists. For one, it only appears to apply to Muslims. I don't hear anyone worrying about maing martyrs out of Christian or Jewish extremists.

And aren't we impliedly admitting that Muslims are more li kely to be moved to violence if we make "martyrs" out of their co-religionists (i.e. kill rabid out of control murderers of innocents)?

I don't know about you, but if we execute a murdering Methodist I really don't feel the need, as a fellow Methodist, to go out and avenge his or her death. So what is it about Muslims that causes us to react or think differently?

Are you telling me that you don't understand what motivates them?

If so, it's no wonder the US hasn't learned from the days of Viet Nam.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Are you telling me that you don't understand what motivates them?

If so, it's no wonder the US hasn't learned from the days of Viet Nam.

There's being motivated to peacefully protest or democratically change policy and then there's being motivated to use horrific acts of violence against innocent people. Muslims aren't the only people in the western world to feel aggrieved about something, but every other group tends to use the first approach. The reason there are more instances and a greater threat of Muslims using the second is that their religion is currently lagging about 500-1000 years behind Christianity in terms of the ultra-conservative, intolerant and fanatical way many practice it.

Because of this I agree with the argument that it would be unwise to make martyrs of the 2 scumbags. Give them life sentences that actually mean life, and use their presence there as a damn good reason to reform the prison environment in this country and turn it back into the horrible experience that it should be. The very thought of these depraved animals playing pool and watching sky tv is sickening.

[PAFELL]

I never understood the concept that we musn't make martyrs of religious extremists. For one, it only appears to apply to Muslims. I don't hear anyone worrying about maing martyrs out of Christian or Jewish extremists.

And aren't we impliedly admitting that Muslims are more li kely to be moved to violence if we make "martyrs" out of their co-religionists (i.e. kill rabid out of control murderers of innocents)?

I don't know about you, but if we execute a murdering Methodist I really don't feel the need, as a fellow Methodist, to go out and avenge his or her death. So what is it about Muslims that causes us to react or think differently?

I think it is because we know that many - not all - Muslims believe it is right or God's will to kill folk who are not Muslims. Therefore totally natural for non-Muslim folk to want to defend themselves and those around them and to be anti the followers of a religion (any religion) that believes it right to commit murder.

As far as I am concerned, those who think it right to kill for their religious belief's, I hope they start with themselves.

[Guest Norbert]

They often do Pafell, and that is the problem, as they want others to join in the fun of dying.

There is too much 'low' Jihad (holy wars, killing people, conversion at the point of a sword), and little in the way of 'high' Jihad (using reason, words and peaceful means to convert people) going on. The latter is usually seen as the more noble, though the Koran also promotes the former too.

The Koran is just like all these Holy books, you take out of it what your mind likes. Do you want anger,intollerance, retribution and violence? Then you act upon the violent passages of whichever Holy book you read. You want to be nice to people, help those in trouble etc. ? you take in the 'love thy neigbour' parts and ignore that violent bits.

The big problem is that those Muslims who shout the loudest, are the extremist mad men, a very vocal minority. It is up to the police and other Muslims to silence them, and promote a more tolerent respectful brand of Islam, and not just bang on about victimisation and our foreign policy.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I have had very strong feelings of anger and sheer disbelief over these last few days over the brutal murder of Soldier Lee Rigby.My belief remains as strong as ever.....

To the Muslim extremists who preach their anti western views coupled with their twisted Sharia Law,there is NO place for you in our Country...GET OUT AND STAY OUT YOU ARE NOT WELCOME!!

[Guest Norbert]

I agree with the sentiment. If you are a rabid racist, and hate black people, you should not go and live in Trinidad and Tobago, and nor would you want to. So if you love Sharia Law (something that a group of men invented 200 after the time of Mohammed), hate white non-Muslims, then move to Saudi Arabia or north west Pakistan. You are a tiny minority, and will not impose your backwards, chauvanist so-called laws on 99.9% of the country.

[Steve Moss]

Here's a conservative Canadian's take on it, which I think is spot on- http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/349308/slaughter

Is it true that 1 in 10 of those under 25 are Muslim in England? If so, they're only a few generations away from being a major voting block.

[broadsword]

Reading that article I'm reminded of the quotation: "To find out who rules over you, simply find who you are not allowed to criticise".

[jim mk2]

Reading that article reminded why I am proud to be English and why the US / Canadian right is one of the lowest forms of humanity.

[adopted scouser]

Here's a conservative Canadian's take on it, which I think is spot on- http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/349308/slaughter

Is it true that 1 in 10 of those under 25 are Muslim in England? If so, they're only a few generations away from being a major voting block.

Great article

[thenodrog]

Reading that article reminded why I am proud to be English and why the US / Canadian right is one of the lowest forms of humanity.

Dunno about anybody else but your recent comments don't really suggest to me that you actually are proud to be English.

[jim mk2]

Evidence please.

Dunno about anybody else but your comments always suggest to me you do not take pride in anything.

[Tom]

RAF fighter jets are escorting a Pakistan Interntional Airlines aircraft from

Manchester to Stansted Airport.

Tayyab Subhani, 30, and Mohammed Safdar, 41, both of Nelson, Lancashire, were detained at Stansted on Friday.

[DE.]

I think it is because we know that many - not all - Muslims believe it is right or God's will to kill folk who are not Muslims.

No, "many" do not believe that at all. In fact, this statement in of itself is wholly inaccurate. The extremists are the ones who believes this - and they make up the minority, so certainly not "many" - and their belief isn't that it's OK to kill "folk who are not Muslims", rather it's that they are able to kill those who are enemies of Muslims and who actively seek to harm Muslims, which generally translates to military personnel. The Qur'an says innocent civilians, women and children should not be harmed. That's why you had the bloke talking to the camera apologizing for women witnessing what he did. As odd as it sounded, it did have some logic in how these people think.

You'll find the majority of Muslims do not think it is right or God's will to kill those who aren't Muslims. if that was the case do you not think there would be FAR more instances of this kind of thing occurring across the UK on a daily basis?

[Steve Moss]

No, "many" do not believe that at all. In fact, this statement in of itself is wholly inaccurate. The extremists are the ones who believes this - and they make up the minority, so certainly not "many" - and their belief isn't that it's OK to kill "folk who are not Muslims", rather it's that they are able to kill those who are enemies of Muslims and who actively seek to harm Muslims, which generally translates to military personnel. The Qur'an says innocent civilians, women and children should not be harmed. That's why you had the bloke talking to the camera apologizing for women witnessing what he did. As odd as it sounded, it did have some logic in how these people think.

You'll find the majority of Muslims do not think it is right or God's will to kill those who aren't Muslims. if that was the case do you not think there would be FAR more instances of this kind of thing occurring across the UK on a daily basis?

Actually, I don't think you're right. Most Muslims are peaceful, but that's not because of their religion. Most Muslims are peaceful as most people are peaceful. Violence is extremely dangerous and risky (not to mention rude) so best do something else.

As to Islam as a religion, I think most of its "peaceful" components only apply if you submit. Accept Allah, accept Mohammed, and pray, etc. as a Muslim, and you are deserving of being left alone. If not, you aren't.

Here's a wiki analysis of an often misquoted passage by the PC brigade- http://wikiislam.net/wiki/If_Anyone_Slew_a_Person_%28Qur%27an_5:32%29

And here's another- http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Misinterpreted_Qur%27anic_Verses#Let_there_be_no_compulsion_in_religion_.282:256.29

[PAFELL]

No, "many" do not believe that at all. In fact, this statement in of itself is wholly inaccurate. The extremists are the ones who believes this - and they make up the minority, so certainly not "many" - and their belief isn't that it's OK to kill "folk who are not Muslims", rather it's that they are able to kill those who are enemies of Muslims and who actively seek to harm Muslims, which generally translates to military personnel. The Qur'an says innocent civilians, women and children should not be harmed. That's why you had the bloke talking to the camera apologizing for women witnessing what he did. As odd as it sounded, it did have some logic in how these people think.

You'll find the majority of Muslims do not think it is right or God's will to kill those who aren't Muslims. if that was the case do you not think there would be FAR more instances of this kind of thing occurring across the UK on a daily basis?

Er how do put a number on the word many. The reality is there are a dam lot of them. If you are not Muslim, do they not then consider you an infidel? Therefore an enemy of Islam.

[DE.]

You're only considered an enemy of Islam if you directly harm other Muslims in large numbers. In such cases a Muslim is allowed to defend themselves and their families how they see fit. In all other cases only God(or Allah) can cast judgement or punishment upon anybody. It's pretty simple.

As I said, if there were a lot of Muslims who believed what you think they believe, there would be a hell of a lot more bloodshed across the UK. There's obviously a lot shed in the Middle-East but that's because we've rocked up there and killed thousands upon thousands of Muslims in the name of "freedom" (read:oil), so what do you expect?

I should note I'm not defending the Qur'an or Islam entirely here - much like Christianity, their holy book contains some very concerning and violent verses which cannot simply be put down to mistranslation or error. All i'm saying is, much like Chrstians, the majority of followers of Islam in the UK are peaceful people. They choose the verses from their holy book which they feel best represent them and ignore those which are difficult to explain. No modern Christian can justify much of what is in the Old Testament, and I'm sure there are Muslims who are uncomfortable with parts of the Qur'an, too.