[Archived] Hang Em High

[Mike E]

Yeah, most decisions should be undertaken under extreme emotional stress. I think it's generally accepted that the best time to make a decision is when you're apoplectic with rage.

Just to be serious for a moment, we should make any jury down a gallon of water. It's been proven that we generally make the best decisions when bursting for a pee

[DE.]

Ah, so we really aren't all that sure after all. But lock em up anyway, just in case.

Forget the punishment, the argument really has come down to guilt or innocence.

Stuart, just for clarity - are you pro or anti death penalty? And if so can you please explain why you'd be happy to trust both the Government and the police force to fairly apply this despite decades of corruption and mistakes from both?

[adopted scouser]

Stuart, just for clarity - are you pro or anti death penalty? And if so can you please explain why you'd be happy to trust both the Government and the police force to fairly apply this despite decades of corruption and mistakes from both lawyers aswell ?

Corrected that for you DE

[Stuart]

Stuart, just for clarity - are you pro or anti death penalty? And if so can you please explain why you'd be happy to trust both the Government and the police force to fairly apply this despite decades of corruption and mistakes from both?

My stance is irrelevant until we are sure about convictions being safe.

I am anti-paying-good-tax-payer-money-on-keeping-scumbags-in-good-health-whilst-law-abiding-people-who-suffer-are-allowed-to-perish-because-they-can't-afford-their-gas-bill.

I am anti-victims-being-allowed-to-suffer-whilst-scumbag-lawyers-fight-for-compensation-for-their-scumbag-clients.

Someone who kills and/or sexually assaults children I could care less about.

But the issue being debated seems to only be about absolute proof, and not the actual punishment.

[jim mk2]

No one can ever be certain that all convictions are 100 per cent safe. There will always be injustices and mistakes. As for prisoners they aren't generally in good health. If you'd been in a nick you'd know. They're locked up most of the time, in a cell. They look ill and alot of them are ill. If you want a culprit for people being unable to afford their energy bills look no farther than this pernicious government.

[DE.]

My stance is irrelevant until we are sure about convictions being safe.

I am anti-paying-good-tax-payer-money-on-keeping-scumbags-in-good-health-whilst-law-abiding-people-who-suffer-are-allowed-to-perish-because-they-can't-afford-their-gas-bill.

I am anti-victims-being-allowed-to-suffer-whilst-scumbag-lawyers-fight-for-compensation-for-their-scumbag-clients.

Someone who kills and/or sexually assaults children I could care less about.

But the issue being debated seems to only be about absolute proof, and not the actual punishment.

Debating on absolute proof and punishment are two different things, even if people are trying to lump them together. The idea of absolute proof is diversionary anyway and detracts from both the ethical stance of killing others and the implications behind giving the Government and Police Force the power to execute the citizens they are supposed to be serving.

You either think the death penalty should be brought back or you don't. There isn't an in between option.

Corrected that for you DE

Lawyers are only as corrupt as the system allows them to be.

[broadsword]

'Couldn't careless about'!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stuart]

'Couldn't careless about'!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes

[thenodrog]

No one can ever be certain that all convictions are 100 per cent safe. There will always be injustices and mistakes. As for prisoners they aren't generally in good health. If you'd been in a nick you'd know. They're locked up most of the time, in a cell. They look ill and alot of them are ill. If you want a culprit for people being unable to afford their energy bills look no farther than this pernicious government.

Thats shocking! Prisoners locked up in cells!!! Well whose fault is that then? Should we provide sunbeds and masseurs?

btw "If you'd been in a nick you'd know." sounds like you have done time Jim. What was that for?

[jim mk2]

You're quoting out of context and making silly comments - again. The post was a response to a comment that prisoners have it easy when in fact they do not. Prison life is hard, as people who work in prisons will tell you. I know a few and they all say the same. You should try doing some research on these subjects instead of just spouting off with your usual prejudices.

[neekoy]

As much as I would like the death penalty to come back in some circumstances in isn't, even though I believe it is a punishment and not deterrent, it still isn't coming back. If it doesn't bring closure to the families either then really what is the point.

I have a much better idea, Black Dolphin Prison,NADX Florence Supermax Prison, Camp 1391, Tadmor Military or the Bangkok Hilton....

This is where they should be sent for life, complete dehuminisation, robbed of absolutely everything and kept in complete isolation and Amnesty would never get through the front door.

[thenodrog]

You're quoting out of context and making silly comments - again. The post was a response to a comment that prisoners have it easy when in fact they do not. Prison life is hard, as people who work in prisons will tell you. I know a few and they all say the same. You should try doing some research on these subjects instead of just spouting off with your usual prejudices.

Sorry my mistake. My 'research' has simply left me with the impression that prison is intended to be a punishment and a future deterrent for wrongdoers whilst safeguarding society by removing them from it. Seems to me that you feel it should be a reward.

I've got to say on reflection that your odd opinion does appear to be in line with the rest of your thinking. As always I don't think you will find many that share your views.

[thenodrog]

As much as I would like the death penalty to come back in some circumstances in isn't, even though I believe it is a punishment and not deterrent, it still isn't coming back. If it doesn't bring closure to the families either then really what is the point.

I have a much better idea, Black Dolphin Prison,NADX Florence Supermax Prison, Camp 1391, Tadmor Military or the Bangkok Hilton....

This is where they should be sent for life, complete dehuminisation, robbed of absolutely everything and kept in complete isolation and Amnesty would never get through the front door.

Indeed neekoy. A similar point to the one I made in an earlier post. Export lifers on a least cost basis to 3rd world gaols in so remote and so hostile an environment that escape becomes the last option.

[jim mk2]

Sorry my mistake. My 'research' has simply left me with the impression that prison is intended to be a punishment and a future deterrent for wrongdoers whilst safeguarding society by removing them from it. Seems to me that you feel it should be a reward.

I've got to say on reflection that your odd opinion does appear to be in line with the rest of your thinking. As always I don't think you will find many that share your views.

Where have I said prison is a "reward" ? Again you are putting your own slant on a post to suit your argument.

[thenodrog]

C'mon no doubt about identity whatsoever here, no doubt about temporary insanity, no defence about crime of passion so c'mon and explain why these two should live another day............ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10483905/Lee-Rigby-attacked-like-a-joint-of-meat-by-Michael-Adebolajo-and-Michael-Adebowale-court-hears.html

[jim mk2]

....because a civilised society such as ours does not believe in state executions or revenge killings. I've provided a list many times of the countries that have capital punishment so what are you waiting for ?

[Stuart]

C'mon no doubt about identity whatsoever here, no doubt about temporary insanity, no defence about crime of passion so c'mon and explain why these two should live another day............ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10483905/Lee-Rigby-attacked-like-a-joint-of-meat-by-Michael-Adebolajo-and-Michael-Adebowale-court-hears.html

Why was he allowed to have a copy of the Koran in the dock with him? Did it make him feel more comfortable?

This country's legal system once again shows more respect towards criminals than victims.

Civilised countries should take care of civilised people not subhumans, and idea of martyrdom is becoming a convenient excuse not to shoot (to kill) these people on sight.

I mean. @#/? hell, Jim. They were hacking someone's head off in broad daylight, in the middle of a busy street.

Just contemplate that for a minute or two.

It's horrific.

[Stuart]

Put it another way.

What kind of 'civilised society' allows vulnerable people to die of dehydration whilst in hospital?

What kind of civilised society won't pay for life saying treatment for a child but will instead fund boob jobs from NHS funds?

What kind of society makes an old man spend his life saving on cancer treatment despite paying national insurance his whole life?

What kind of society treats it's criminals better than their victims?

But some people believe that it would be outrageous if two evil 'people' who killed an unarmed man in the worst way imaginable were quietly put to sleep never to wake up.

It's going to take a better argument than 'being civilised' to convince me that looking after those two (light, heat, shelter, education, health care) for the rest of their days is money well spent, when good people don't have the same access.

[jim mk2]

Put it another way.

What kind of 'civilised society' allows vulnerable people to die of dehydration whilst in hospital? Mistakes are made in hospitals usually through management incompetence or lack of staff owing to NHS cuts - nothing to do with "civilisation".

What kind of civilised society won't pay for life saying treatment for a child but will instead fund boob jobs from NHS funds? Evidence ? What's it to do with this debate ?

What kind of society makes an old man spend his life saving on cancer treatment despite paying national insurance his whole life? Ditto.

What kind of society treats it's criminals better than their victims? Really - how ?

But some people believe that it would be outrageous if two evil 'people' who killed an unarmed man in the worst way imaginable were quietly put to sleep never to wake up. Some people might but civilised societies don't execute their own citizens.

It's going to take a better argument than 'being civilised' to convince me that looking after those two (light, heat, shelter, education, health care) for the rest of their days is money well spent, when good people don't have the same access. They'll be locked up in a cell every day for the rest of their lives. If you want that sort of "access" follow their example.

[thenodrog]

....because a civilised society such as ours does not believe in state executions or revenge killings. I've provided a list many times of the countries that have capital punishment so what are you waiting for ?

'Civilised society'? Those two are part of that society which you exalt so much, as are Brady & Hindley, Sutcliffe, West, Huntley, Anderson, Cregan, Ryan, 7/7 bombers etc etc etc etc etc. So if that lot are part of our society then how can you accept that our society is anything like civilised? It simply cant be. If we want a civilised society we have to weed such like out permamently. Never heard of rotten apples and barrells jim? At least 7 of those had the decency to do the executioners job for them and who has missed them? The planet hasn't wobbled on it's axis, the country hasn't incurred the wrath of God no one else has been slaughtered so in effect the answer is no one. Now I'm sure a few bleeding hearts like like yourself, DE and paul might get down on your knees to some invisible friend that you need and you may even light an occasional candle for them but I'm sure the vast majority wont. Personally given half a chance I'd p1ss on their graves.

[jim mk2]

Rotten apples - agreed. Every society has them. You lock them up.

[ABBEY]

Jim do you really honestly believe that those who killed Rigby deserve a warm bed , play stations , gym and 3 meals a day ?

[jim mk2]

Have you been in a nick ? You wouldn't want to be in there, you really wouldn't.

[Stuart]

Jim, you may consider yourself alongside the murderers of Lee Rigby. I certainly don't consider these scumbags 'our citizens' - and that's nothing to do with racism before anyone starts.

[ABBEY]

I know one lad who has and was life of Riley ..answer the question .. Do they deserve to live?