[Archived] Hang Em High

[jim mk2]

They should secure an island up in the Shetlands or Orkney , a small one, and they should just put all killers, rapists etc on the island and just leave em...security on the edges, but let em freeze to death or better still, everyone kill each other,...like a real hunger games.

Very good. I would remind you this is 2013, not 1813.

[Steve Moss]

. . . Prison life is hard, as people who work in prisons will tell you. I know a few and they all say the same. You should try doing some research on these subjects instead of just spouting off with your usual prejudices.

I call BS. I know quite a few criminals (a hazard of my profession) and prison holds few terrors. I suspect your view of the penal system is based more on HBO and Showtime then it is reality.

....because a civilised society such as ours does not believe in state executions or revenge killings. I've provided a list many times of the countries that have capital punishment so what are you waiting for ?

I think we have different definitions of "civilized".

My definition of a civilized society is one that protects its citizens from the lawless elements and, if that protection fails, avenges the victim so the victim and the victim's family doesn't have to. Deviate from that model and the criminal justice system is held up to contempt and ridicule, as there are more victims than criminals.

I thought you'd know that, Jim, considering our criminal justice system is based on the gold old fashioned Anglo-Saxon system. It was screwed up by clergy men and philosophers injecting their spiritualism into the process.

Mob justice isn't real justice.

I'm always bemused by this one. The public forms the body politic, elects representatives by majority vote, and they make laws. To win re-election they must get 51% of the vote, which means placating the mob.

Democracy is mob rule. Our forefathers were wise enough to put checks and balances in place to,limit the damage, which we've been steadily dismantling.

[jim mk2]

I call BS. I know quite a few criminals (a hazard of my profession) and prison holds few terrors. I suspect your view of the penal system is based more on HBO and Showtime then it is reality.

It's based on visits to HMPs. I wouldn't want to be an inmate in any of them.

I think we have different definitions of "civilized".

My definition of a civilized society is one that protects its citizens from the lawless elements and, if that protection fails, avenges the victim so the victim and the victim's family doesn't have to. Deviate from that model and the criminal justice system is held up to contempt and ridicule, as there are more victims than criminals.

My definition of a civilised society is one that protects its citizens from lawless elements by locking them away as long as possible. My definition of an uncivilised society is one that executes its own citizens. The US (or at least the ever number of declining number of states that still have capital punishment) is a barbaric society in my book.

Your last sentence is nonsense.

[thenodrog]

My definition of a civilised society is one that protects its citizens from lawless elements by locking them away as long as possible. My definition of an uncivilised society is one that executes its own citizens.

We don't lock them away for as long as possible though.

Your definition of a civilised society is simplistic at best.

[Mike E]

We don't lock them away for as long as possible though.

Your definition of a civilised society is simplistic naive at best.

[neekoy]

Jim, quite rightly you wouldn't want to be part of any of them because dare I say it you are deep down a decent human being but this is quite the mistake that people make, they look at prison and say "aw gawd, that's awful, I wouldn't want to be there" and then soften the approach to criminals by pretending they are in their shoes.

Only DROG has answered my idea, could we turn prison into the MOST god awful thing on earth like those that I mentioned. Black Dolphin, where Prisoners are handcuffed from wrists to ankles and forced to walk around bent over, raising ever so slightly above the horizontal causing the most horrifying consequences of penal punishment. Huge barking vicious dogs an inch away from your face ready for you to fart in the wrong direction before getting your face ripped off.

Completely isolated, no gym, no tv, no contact, forced to live out an existence for life that is no better then the rats or cockroaches you share a cell with.

Please take the time to watch http://natgeotv.com/asia/inside-russias-toughest-prisons/videos/black-dolphin-prison

[Silencio]

Neekoy, I think it might be easier if you got a gimp in your house, then you would be able to satisfy these sadistic urges you seem to have. Prison shouldn't be a nice place and it's already the case that it isn't from what I can gather. The UK and America currently lock up relatively more people than any other Western countries yet a large percentage of citizens in those countries go along with the ill-informed belief that their governments are 'soft on crime'. More prisons and borderline torture in those prisons won't solve that...

[gumboots]

you are quite right. Our view of crime and punishment is coloured by the newspapers who pick up stories like treats for young offenders or sky tv in prisons and forget that conditions are actually pretty awful. was talking to someone the other day who had only gone in to visit her daughter, the prison governor. Even she said "The worst moment was when they closed the door, and I knew I could leave at any moment"

Many of our jails are crumbling old fashioned buildings. They are overcrowded and life in there can be pretty scary. I'm not suggesting for one minute that those who end up there don't deserve to be there, but it is a fact that there are more effective ways of dealing with many lesser crimes than banging people up in jail.

[jim mk2]

Jim, quite rightly you wouldn't want to be part of any of them because dare I say it you are deep down a decent human being but this is quite the mistake that people make, they look at prison and say "aw gawd, that's awful, I wouldn't want to be there" and then soften the approach to criminals by pretending they are in their shoes.

Only DROG has answered my idea, could we turn prison into the MOST god awful thing on earth like those that I mentioned. Black Dolphin, where Prisoners are handcuffed from wrists to ankles and forced to walk around bent over, raising ever so slightly above the horizontal causing the most horrifying consequences of penal punishment. Huge barking vicious dogs an inch away from your face ready for you to fart in the wrong direction before getting your face ripped off.

Completely isolated, no gym, no tv, no contact, forced to live out an existence for life that is no better then the rats or cockroaches you share a cell with.

That was fine when Charles Dickens were a lad but this is the 21st century and civilsation has moved forward. Unless of course you'd like to send children back down coal mines (the few that are left the gorgon from Grantham didn't close).

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

you are quite right. Our view of crime and punishment is coloured by the newspapers who pick up stories like treats for young offenders or sky tv in prisons and forget that conditions are actually pretty awful. was talking to someone the other day who had only gone in to visit her daughter, the prison governor. Even she said "The worst moment was when they closed the door, and I knew I could leave at any moment"

Many of our jails are crumbling old fashioned buildings. They are overcrowded and life in there can be pretty scary. I'm not suggesting for one minute that those who end up there don't deserve to be there, but it is a fact that there are more effective ways of dealing with many lesser crimes than banging people up in jail.

Of course you're right. Too many people on this site have no imagination. Just to be locked up 24/7 and be not able to do the million and one things we all take for granted is a enough of a punishment for me. The sentence normally says " you shall be deprived of your liberty for " x " amount of years, not you shall be tortured or humiliated.

An ex- student of my wife's was foolish enough to be involved in a robbery of a filling station when he was 21.Nobody was hurt and a smallish amount of money was taken but a machete was brandished at the staff. The ex-student was caught and foolishly refused to name names. He was given an " in-determinate " sentence. My wife has lost touch with him now because he doesn't answer her letters but the last time he wrote to her he was in " Oakham " prison and he had been in goal for at least eight years.

[T.J.Newton]

boo hoo

and its a petrol station, you twonk.

[neekoy]

Hold on, I am not talking about petty theft or stealing a car. I am talking about those that decide to rape babies, torture children for years, chop heads off in public view, serial rapists/murderers etc.....

I am sorry but giving these people a life sentence in a prison whilst still allowing visitation, meals designed by nutritionists, gyms, play stations and rec areas, full access to medical facilities and services, paid labour, access to whatever denomination of religion they belong to, an opportunity for free education is not a punishment that is "tough" on the crimes that they have perpetrated.

You are essentially saying that the punishment for the most evil crimes a human can commit is paramount to not letting them roam free when they want to commit those crimes again.

Sorry not good enough.

It is not sadastic, it is just. The JUSTICE system is for justice.

[Mike E]

Gumboots hit on a good point though. What's the point in putting your computer hackers and corporate fraudsters in the same prisons as murderers and rapists?

For those sorts of crimes, the punishment should be along the lines of enforced minimum wage rates until the money stolen is recovered on the victims behalf. Or a vandal should be made to clean up the mess made and be made to do the victim's shopping for a month or something.

[thenodrog]

Armed robbery witha machete and not helping in bringing accomplice criminals to justice...... It's all his own fault and nobody elses tbh! One good thing is that he'll think twice before he does it again Tyrone. Maybe the most important bit is that after learning of his story neither will any of his mates or people who know him. Have you never considered that if he'd got away with it it would have spawned a number of such crimes?

[Audax]

I once read a book, very good, "Against all hope" by Armando Valladares who was held as a political prisoner on trumped up charges in a prison in Cuba.

He writes a lot, "drawer cells", being fed a diet where a mineral was omitted and the prisoner would suffer as a consequence meaning possibly developing goiters, etc.

Inspirational book because he made it through after over 20 years of captivity and to freedom thanks to international efforts.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

I once read a book, very good, "Against all hope" by Armando Valladares who was held as a political prisoner on trumped up charges in a prison in Cuba.

He writes a lot, "drawer cells", being fed a diet where a mineral was omitted and the prisoner would suffer as a consequence meaning possibly developing goiters, etc.

Inspirational book because he made it through after over 20 years of captivity and to freedom thanks to international efforts.

Only another 10 years and maybe Shaker Aamer can write a book...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Gumboots hit on a good point though. What's the point in putting your computer hackers and corporate fraudsters in the same prisons as murderers and rapists?

For those sorts of crimes, the punishment should be along the lines of enforced minimum wage rates until the money stolen is recovered on the victims behalf. Or a vandal should be made to clean up the mess made and be made to do the victim's shopping for a month or something.

Mm, computer hackers ? I'm not normally in favour of the death penalty but I might be persuaded to make an exception in their case. That kid the " Daily Mail " was bigging up a year or two ago, I 'd carry him on my back to America.

[Amo]

Gumboots hit on a good point though. What's the point in putting your computer hackers and corporate fraudsters in the same prisons as murderers and rapists?

Because money.

[adopted scouser]

Hold on, I am not talking about petty theft or stealing a car. I am talking about those that decide to rape babies, torture children for years, chop heads off in public view, serial rapists/murderers etc.....

I am sorry but giving these people a life sentence in a prison whilst still allowing visitation, meals designed by nutritionists, gyms, play stations and rec areas, full access to medical facilities and services, paid labour, access to whatever denomination of religion they belong to, an opportunity for free education is not a punishment that is "tough" on the crimes that they have perpetrated.

You are essentially saying that the punishment for the most evil crimes a human can commit is paramount to not letting them roam free when they want to commit those crimes again.

Sorry not good enough.

It is not sadastic, it is just. The JUSTICE system is for justice.

EXACTLY my take on it. You just became my new best friend

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Armed robbery witha machete and not helping in bringing accomplice criminals to justice...... It's all his own fault and nobody elses tbh! One good thing is that he'll think twice before he does it again Tyrone. Maybe the most important bit is that after learning of his story neither will any of his mates or people who know him. Have you never considered that if he'd got away with it it would have spawned a number of such crimes?

Yeah your right, if he'd had been smarter he could have perpetrated some sort of financial fraud/fiddle on the company and got a severe letting off.

[Tom]

Remind me if I ever intend to commit a crime in Texas to make sure I'm rich first

16 year old rich kid gets drunk and kills 4 in his car and gets probation because he is rich

http://gawker.com/teen-who-killed-four-people-got-off-on-probation-becaus-1480835092

Good job Texas

[Steve Moss]

Remind me if I ever intend to commit a crime in Texas to make sure I'm rich first

16 year old rich kid gets drunk and kills 4 in his car and gets probation because he is rich

http://gawker.com/teen-who-killed-four-people-got-off-on-probation-becaus-1480835092

Good job Texas

That's actually fairly shocking. He needed prison time, a lot of it.

[Tom]

That's actually fairly shocking. He needed prison time, a lot of it.

The judge blames the parents shielding them from consequences, in that case jail the parents hell someone has to be accountable

[Stuart]

The judge blames the parents shielding them from consequences, in that case jail the parents hell someone has to be accountable

And yet the judge is doing exactly what the parents have done.

I can't think what might have persuaded him to do that...?

[Amo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-25363252

People go to prison for not paying their TV license but this maniac gets an eight month suspended sentence?

First class job at taking him down by our boys in blue, also.