[Archived] Rovers Review Academy And Reserve Set Ups

[philipl]

I watch all the home reserve games and most of the away reserve games. If I had to chose between Nolan and Mokoena to play in the first team in midfield I'd have Mokoena everytime. If I had to chose between Nolan and Mokoena to play in defence, I'd have Mokoena everytime.

Nolan is a defender, not a midfield player. He is playing at right-back for the reserves at the moment. But, again, he is not better than Ooijer or Emerton in that position.

The reason Hughes sticks with the players he does is because they are better than what we have in the reserves. If Olsson hadn't been injured over the past few months I suspect that he might have been involved in the first team squad more than Berner. However, apart from Olsson, I would certainly select Berner over the other players who are playing at left-back for the reserves.

With large sums of money available for final League placings, the days of developing young players in the first team are not realistic for clubs like the Rovers. Every point is vital as it can provide the manager with extra funds to spend in the summer.

Thank you Parsonblue for that post and sharing your experiences of watching the fringe players.

I too am very disappointed that the German lads (and quite probably Raffa Devita) have not come through to the Rovers' Premiership side. BUT, the ONLY real purpose of the in-house feeder system is in reality to produce Premiership footballers playing in blue-and-white halves.

I have read the views of other people who have gone to WATCH Academy and Reserve games and I have seen opinions that showed that good as they were, the German lads who have gone to Germany had fatal flaws in their game which would have killed any chance of making the grade as a player in the EPL with its huge reliance on physical strength, stamina and speed.

On that basis, the club is to be applauded by biting the bullet and releasing them to German clubs whilst they are still young and promising enough to have the possibility of playing very decent grade football in their home country.

With each Premiership place worth £750K and Rovers within 3 points of three other clubs, the equivalent of one and a half annual budgets for the Academy is dependent on the Rovers having their best shot at coming 6th rather than 9th.

[roversmum]

Thank God for the last two, sensible posts.

I am sick to death of all the moaning about the reserve/youth/academy players. Let's just make up a team of them to play the senior games and see where we end up. The Manager has been through the system himself, rest assured he knows what he is doing. Give it a rest for goodness sake.

[ABBEY]

"Introducing a new state of art computer system which will enable the club to track possible targets."

I'd like to know more about this.

Sounds just like Football Manager!

sounds like rover6 as been right all along with his fm esque view

[rover6]

"Imo, given a chance, a guy like Nolan could do as well in the utility role (although he hasn't played midfield much in his career, he has played CB and RB)"

What do you mean "a guy like Nolan"? The only youngster we have like Nolan, - is Nolan. Then you said, "(although he hasn't played midfield much in his career, he has played CB and RB)."

I mean where are we going here? I'm saying that Mokoena, in his duties of coming on for the last 20/30 mins to protect a lead [which is pretty much all he ever does nowadays], does OK. You say we have better kids, but then come out with "a guy like Nolan".

.

When I said, a "guy like Nolan", I was suggesting that it doesn't have to be Nolan. Imo, the best reserve players who are putting in regular decent performances and have been given contract extensions to reward their potential should be the ones getting first team opportunities to see if they can take the next step up as squad players.

That is, Nolan, Kane, Peter (when not injured), Treacy (when not injured), perhaps Alan Judge.

My point in the above post about Mokoena (I admit not clearly expressed) is that now that we have Vogel, we do not need Mokoena on the bench to come on to perform the Easter Island statue role in central midfield. Thus, Hughes should place "a guy like Nolan (or any of the above) on the subs bench to come on late on in games and develop their confidence and find their feet.

There's nothing to lose because only the most paranoid person would suggest that bringing on a youngster at the appropriate moment would jeopardise a game. And if they do well, develop their confidence, we have a promising squad player on our hands.

"

Pity you can't see that the problem with the academy is that they're not getting the right lads in. If they do that, it will succeed

I can see that, Den. I agree that the academy is not getting top notch lads in. However, I am also arguing that we are not making the most of what they do have. "Necessity is the mother of invention". Through sheer necessity, we should be stretching the guys we do have to their max - and that is squeezing squad players out of the academy.

I have read the views of other people who have gone to WATCH Academy and Reserve games and I have seen opinions that showed that good as they were, the German lads who have gone to Germany had fatal flaws in their game which would have killed any chance of making the grade as a player in the EPL with its huge reliance on physical strength, stamina and speed.

On that basis, the club is to be applauded by biting the bullet and releasing them to German clubs whilst they are still young and promising enough to have the possibility of playing very decent grade football in their home country.

Philip, that is complete and utter boggleswash. Even if Mamadi Keita was not ever going to reach the standard of the EPL, why was he held back from the reserves whilst Gary Stopforth (about as likely to make the EPL as a Mokoena's toe nail clippings (wait.....?)) became, not only reserve regular, BUT CAPTAIN!

[philipl]

I never saw Stopforth so I am not qualified to comment.

But I was not commenting on Stopforth.

However, the observations of people who have been to reserve games recently is that the youngsters are a long way short of Mokoena's level and on the basis of 3 from 5 subs getting on and £750K a place, that seems too high a risk to take.

[disgruntled]

Neither has rover6 but it has never stopped him commenting on all of these players. How he can form great opinions of some players but poor opinions of others when never having seen the lads in action is ridiculous.

[den]

My belief, Den, is that Mokoena gets picked because of his experience not his talent. It's cautiousness which is prevalent in footy management. It's why Lampard/Gerrard/ have been ENgland regulars for years despite usually performing like damp squibs. Bringing in a new guy is deemed a massive risk because it's a step into the hypothetical, so managers stick to the tried (and failed).

Imo, given a chance, a guy like Nolan could do as well in the utility role (although he hasn't played midfield much in his career, he has played CB and RB). And now that Vogel is back-up CM on the bench, having another is not so important.

Obviously, if Nolan was thrown in into the next game, he might struggle with nerves and the pace of the game. But if he was given concerted games to find his feet, I think he could do as well as Mokoena. However, Hughes is not prepared to give him that transition time or for that matter, any of the other young players who don't do a Derbs and make immediate impact.

When I said, a "guy like Nolan", I was suggesting that it doesn't have to be Nolan. Imo, the best reserve players who are putting in regular decent performances and have been given contract extensions to reward their potential should be the ones getting first team opportunities to see if they can take the next step up as squad players.

That is, Nolan, Kane, Peter (when not injured), Treacy (when not injured), perhaps Alan Judge.

We were discussing whether Mokoena was the best guy to come onto the pitch, with 20mins to go, to sit in front of the back four and protect a lead. I said he was the best we had. You said he wasn't very good and that a guy like Nolan could do it.

Is Mokoena the best we have for that role - yes or no?

[Billy Castell]

Maybe we should try and take Man City's youth coaches!

The importance of a good youth set up is highlighted by Bentley's apparent desire to leave-we can't always pick up unwanted youngsters from bigger clubs, and then turn them into stars. Nor can we constantly pick up 30+ year olds on the cheap. Hopefully, these changes will lead to youngsters having a better chance at becoming 1st team players.

We cannot afford to have a ____ youth set up as we have very little money to fill the cracks.

[waggy]

Maybe we should try and take Man City's youth coaches!

The importance of a good youth set up is highlighted by Bentley's apparent desire to leave-we can't always pick up unwanted youngsters from bigger clubs, and then turn them into stars. Nor can we constantly pick up 30+ year olds on the cheap. Hopefully, these changes will lead to youngsters having a better chance at becoming 1st team players.

We cannot afford to have a ____ youth set up as we have very little money to fill the cracks.

very true we cannot afford a youth set up that does not produce players

[rover6]

We were discussing whether Mokoena was the best guy to come onto the pitch, with 20mins to go, to sit in front of the back four and protect a lead. I said he was the best we had. You said he wasn't very good and that a guy like Nolan could do it.

Is Mokoena the best we have for that role - yes or no?

Well, now we have Vogel, I would definitely say no. (So, he's obsolete).

However, leaving Vogel aside, I would say YES for the short-term. However, if Hughes gave almost anyone, be it Nolan, the unconditional faith that he's given to Mokoena, and played that person again and again to allow them to find their confidence, Nolan could do as good a job as Mokoena. The reason is, imo, the role that Mokoena plays is wholly undemanding. He plays it okay without being a reasonable defender and having abysmal technical ability.

Andy Todd did it for Souey against Boro in a 1-0 win. Mark Hughes did it in the Worthy finals. It is one of the easiest jobs in football, if not the easiest.

Mark my words, when Mokoena leaves Blackburn he will never return to our standard of football. It'll be like Tore A Flo at Chelsea. By the very fact of making sub appearances, he built a reputation of being a handy player. But when fully exposed, in the cold light of regular first team football, he was found not so impressive. However for Mokoena, replaced the emboldened words with mediocre and atrocious, respectively.

[den]

However, leaving Vogel aside, I would say YES for the short-term. However, if Hughes gave almost anyone, be it Nolan, the unconditional faith that he's given to Mokoena, and played that person again and again to allow them to find their confidence, Nolan could do as good a job as Mokoena. The reason is, imo, the role that Mokoena plays is wholly undemanding.

You just wonder then, why Man Utd and Chelsea pay fortunes for the like of Makelele and Carrick/Hargreaves when in fact they could have bought Mokoena for next to nowt, or thrown any youngster they could find - and been just as good a side.

These managers have absolutely no idea whatsoever what they're doing.

[Parsonblue]

How anyone can believe that Nolan can do a job in our midfield in the Premiership is beyond me. He isn't ready to play in the first team in his usual position - centre-back, or indeed right-back - so how is he going to be a success in midfield?

Why do people demand that we play young players despite the fact that they have done nothing at reserve level to suggest that they warrant a place in the first team.

Last night our youngsters faced a very experienced Bolton side and only started to get in the game once Bolton started to introduce younger players from the bench. In the first half it was very much a case of 'men against boys'. Mark Hughes is trying to get the Rovers into Europe and 'blooding' the youngsters isn't going to help at this stage. Indeed, putting young players into the team before they are ready could well destroy their confidence rather than build it. I don't think his outing against Coventry has done anything to help Keith Treacy - it merely underlined the fact that he is still some way off being a first team player.

Anyone who has watched reserve football this season will know that there isn't anyone who is better than Mokoena in that position in the second string. Personally, I believe that if we get rid of Mokoena we will weaken our squad.

[JAL]

How anyone can believe that Nolan can do a job in our midfield in the Premiership is beyond me. He isn't ready to play in the first team in his usual position - centre-back, or indeed right-back - so how is he going to be a success in midfield?

Why do people demand that we play young players despite the fact that they have done nothing at reserve level to suggest that they warrant a place in the first team.

Last night our youngsters faced a very experienced Bolton side and only started to get in the game once Bolton started to introduce younger players from the bench. In the first half it was very much a case of 'men against boys'. Mark Hughes is trying to get the Rovers into Europe and 'blooding' the youngsters isn't going to help at this stage. Indeed, putting young players into the team before they are ready could well destroy their confidence rather than build it. I don't think his outing against Coventry has done anything to help Keith Treacy - it merely underlined the fact that he is still some way off being a first team player.

Anyone who has watched reserve football this season will know that there isn't anyone who is better than Mokoena in that position in the second string. Personally, I believe that if we get rid of Mokoena we will weaken our squad.

Very well put, how did Jamie Clark and the irish lad Flynn perform last night against the experienced Bolton players .

[92er]

Thinking about the youth system, and being able to compare the results of the present system with all decades back to the 50's, I wonder if there are actually fewer players being discovered who are capable of playing in the top division than at any other time, apart perhaps from the 60's when very little was produced, notwithstanding J. Byrom.

If this is indeed the case, it really is a disgrace when you consider the riches of the current system and the poverty, and almost bankruptcy, of the past.

If you accept Duff, Dunn etc as coming through in the 1990's, just who has come through this decade?

[S15]

I do kinda see what R6 is getting at, you see players like Mokoena, Berner etc and you can't help but feel there must be academy players who could easily grow into that role.

On the counter argument, Jonathon Douglas, one of our more highly rated youngsters was given that run, and was truely turd.

However, as are Mokoena and Berner. But on higher wages.

[Paul Mellelieu]

I do kinda see what R6 is getting at, you see players like Mokoena, Berner etc and you can't help but feel there must be academy players who could easily grow into that role.

On the counter argument, Jonathon Douglas, one of our more highly rated youngsters was given that run, and was truely turd.

However, as are Mokoena and Berner. But on higher wages.

We should take a look at Portsmouth's youth system.

[S15]

It's a shame you're not as funny as you are stupid.

[RevidgeBlue]

On the counter argument, Jonathon Douglas, one of our more highly rated youngsters was given that run, and was truely turd.

Gross exaggeration there, Douglas came into the side as part of an emergency five man midfield during the season we nearly went down under Souness and did a superb job.

As did Mokoena the following season under Sparky's salvage operation.

[S15]

Gross exaggeration there, Douglas came into the side as part of an emergency five man midfield during the season we nearly went down under Souness and did a superb job.

As did Mokoena the following season under Sparky's salvage operation.

[American]

I never saw Stopforth so I am not qualified to comment.

But I was not commenting on Stopforth.

However, the observations of people who have been to reserve games recently is that the youngsters are a long way short of Mokoena's level and on the basis of 3 from 5 subs getting on and £750K a place, that seems too high a risk to take.

Ah, not only paranoid, but problems with reading comprehension. No one, not even R6, is saying to put all reserve players in sub roles. He is saying to give them the jobs that Berner and Mokoena have at this point in time (after the Vogel acquisition).

The youngsters aren't likely to come on, but if they do, it will be likely be in a situation that won't cost us 750k. If anything, we can gain money, by being able to sell a player for more than he is worth (see Douglas, Jonathan).

[S15]

Next season we get 7 subs..

Best get our scouting system in overdrive.

[Parsonblue]

Very well put, how did Jamie Clark and the irish lad Flynn perform last night against the experienced Bolton players .

Clarke got very little change out of two experienced and powerful defenders. Flynn struggled with the more experienced players he was up against but I'm sure the experience will do him good. Next season will be the time to judge his progress.

[philipl]

Apparently the young keeper Bjorn Bussman pulled off two wonder saves for the Academy. WDR profile of him posted on Youtube.

It does seem that we are extremely well served for promising young keepers. Brown, Nielsen, Fielding and Bussman all seem to be on track to becoming top quality.

[Macky]

Dunno if it has already been mentioned, but Rovers brought on two 15 year olds for the U 18's, one of which scored....

Official Site Link

[FourLaneBlue]

An Andy Neild scoop in tonights Telegraph, talks about how John Williams, Mark Hughes, Bobby Downes are currently reviewing all aspects to do with the acedemy and reserve set ups on how to improve the development of young talent and progress them into the first team.

Well I cannot argue about that too much...I have been saying for ages that Rovers should do a comprehensive review of the setup and they are doing so hence I will not complain about that anymore.

For too long the Academy has not been producing...more money needs to be put into the areas that are failing. Initial recruitment is the obvious place to look but also there have been many complaints of favouritism at Borckhall and unfair treatment. If these are without merit then so be it but they should be investigated nonetheless.

Compared to most other Premiership clubs our output from the Academy had been disappointing. Hopefully this will be the first step in turning it around and having more than just Derbyshire (and he was from Árrod....) in this century being a credible product of our academy.