[Archived] Is It Us To Blame?

[thenodrog]

To be frank phil this post clearly demonstrates your entirely negative approach to life. I can't think of a time when you discussed anything in a positive light, you clearly despise / detest the country and it's systems. You also seem to revel in finding opportunities to find fault with individuals who you believe hold differing views to your own. Have you ever considered emigration? It might be worthwhile if you are so disillusioned with Britain?

I make no assumptions concerning other people's actvities, unlike yourself in assumming I have some need to "broadcast my worthy deeds". I said nothing about people's right to criticise politicians (in fact I have previously commented on my own distrust of Brown), just another of your enormous leaps from one point to another, usually in search of an opportunity to crticise.

I gave the examples above for no reason other than to demonstrate what everyday folk can achieve. Mostly what I read / listen to is negative, rarely do we get good news stories, which is partly the problem with the country, as joey questions, people spend their lives glorying in the negative contribute to that. I have no interest in appearing worthy, I know I'm not, I simply try to demonstrate if things need doing there are plenty of opportunities to get them done. I don't see what is worthy in ensuring one's own child has a sports group to attend or in giving examples of how other parents help themselves and their local community. I seem to recall you were bemoaning the loss of community in another thead? So why start kicking at someone who gives examples of how community does still exist? I could give provide many more examples, just things I know of but make no contribution to, but hey that would be positive and it isn't permitted in your UK. Why?

You know absolutely nothing about myself - you're simply making assumptions (which you accuse myself of) based on SOME posts made on a football messageboard . On many subjects I'm quite certain I've made reasonable , positive posts ....you're just probably too blinded by your political prejudices to notice them . For certain you don't have enough to say I have an "entirely negative approach to life" - that is just plain ridiculous ...if I was less laid back I'be be positively insulted

You say I clearly despise this country and its systems ? An absolutely stupid (and not even compatible) comment taking into account I have stated many times that democracy should be extended to include the election of police chiefs and judges for example , to make communities more inclusive ; that I utterly condemn the levels of crime and drugs and believe our failed sytems should be reformed accordingly . As a tax paying , voting , law abiding citizen I defend my right to criticise when the systems are failing (as in areas like Blackburn they so obviously are ). That is what democracy is about . It is not about fawning to the failing politicians .....or being stupid and gullible to believe that everything is hunky dory and that nothing needs to be changed . You obviously do everything to look after your own family (and good luck to you) - but those who don't benefit from cheap imported labour but instead have to COMPETE with them are having to do the very same under trying circumstances . Don't look down on them .

You problem , Paul , is that you regard everyone who is politically to the right of you , and who have the balls to stand their ground , as being somewhat abnormal and illiberal - even racist - but yet you criticise ME for finding fault with those who hold differing views . I think you'll find that I've never once shied away from debating with those who have differing views from myself (nor complained to the mods about them ) . If I am negative at times then I know that I can back up every word with reasoned debate , especially against the likes of Philipl , Manc Blue , Bucky and Den ......should they ever dare to "up" their level of comments from that of the sniping variety that is . (I exclude yourself , Paul , from that .....)

However I could also make a list of YOUR criticisms - from Thatcherism of yesterday to the GB yobs who embarrass you st home and when you're abroad .

But what really irks me is your constant whingeing and endless criticism of British workers as being workshy - not fit to wipe the boots of their foreign counterparts . Even the ones who do get off their backsides to work at your house you've complained that they're not up to scratch . As I said in another thread perhaps it would be better if it were YOU who did the emigrating - you could then have all the cheap , docile labour you could handle .

To conclude , I must say that I think there's a real resentment amongst many of the posters out there that "right wing" people dare to speak out at all . Maybe in their environment such behaviour is frowned upon as being socially unacceptable , I don't know . It is somewhat inevitable , if looked at logically , that in a period of Labour government "right wing" people are going to have more of a whinge than the Labour luvvies .....

I dare say that if the internet was around in the Thatcher period (or maybe in a future rightist state..) half the "optimistic" lot would be a little more willing to be critical of both government and society . Or maybe they'd just shrug their shoulders and look after their own ....

Phew! Two heartfelt and HONEST posts. Shooting straight from the lip. I bet you both feel a whole lot better for that! Well done and valid points all round. Nothing like a good old honest to goodness clear the air debate is there? All made possible now Phil because Paul is no longer in a position of authority on here and is just one of the great unwashed and can express himself freely and openly ....... if he still had that trigger finger available though I can assure from experience that you'd be toast.

[American]

That was unnecessary Gordon.

[thenodrog]

That was unnecessary Gordon.

Why? Both posts are excellent and very frank and obviously posted in public for the benefit of all.

[SouthAussieRover]

Why? Both posts are excellent and very frank and obviously posted in public for the benefit of all.

No need to have brought up the past re Paul's time as admin though?

[thenodrog]

No need to have brought up the past re Paul's time as admin though?

Thats the wrong place for a question mark.

Anyway... why? A little waspish humour never hurt anyone did it? I suppose if we are bandying board etiquette around I could point out that that there was no need for you to butt into a post of mine clearly intended for admin and admin alone and call me a prick the other day on the deleted Yoda thread couldn't I?

btw I seem to rem that you had a vendetta against the 3 'T's and wanted to get rid of me Tris and Tash years ago when you were a board official. The powers long gone but I've a strong feeling that the sentiment remains.

[SouthAussieRover]

btw I seem to rem that you had a vendetta against the 3 'T's and wanted to get rid of me Tris and Tash years ago when you were a board official. The powers long gone but I've a strong feeling that the sentiment remains.

Most definitely in your case.

Your long history of antagonising members of Admin and moderators is deplorable and unacceptable to the majority.

As for your post on Ask Admin I seem to recall a little comment directed at me and Manc Blue in which case I reserve the right to butt in.

[Paul]

You problem , Paul , is that you regard everyone who is politically to the right of you , and who have the balls to stand their ground , as being somewhat abnormal and illiberal - even racist -

That isn't true but never mind. Otherwise great reply, That isn't an attempt at a cheap dig.

[Paul]

All made possible now Phil because Paul is no longer in a position of authority on here and is just one of the great unwashed and can express himself freely and openly ....... if he still had that trigger finger available though I can assure from experience that you'd be toast.

As far as I am aware phil has never insulted or abused anyone on the MB. It's what makes his arguements so powerful and worthy of discussion.

[thenodrog]

As far as I am aware phil has never insulted or abused anyone on the MB. It's what makes his arguements so powerful and worthy of discussion.

Agreed and the same here Paul.

[joey_big_nose]

But when he biked, his car was still driven! He didn't do a single thing to help the environment. He was grandstanding, plain and simple.

At least Gore has gone and made environmental improvements to his house that was taking over 10x more energy to run than the average household.

I thought that Ghandi did a pretty good job making decisions that were pure of motive, myself. And just by comparing politicians to CEOs, you prove the point that they aren't doing this for the public good.

He is leader of a political party.There would be too much stuff for him to carry at any rate on a bike on his own. Fiar enough sticking your shoes on a car doesn't look good, but seeing as a million things will need to be moved behind him, why not? Plus he would have numerous staff followign him round all day lots of whom would have to drive due to their own burdens and, quite possibly, lack of desire to bike.

All I'm saying is I wish the attitude was more "great stuff Cameron. its a start, not perfect, but lets move further in that direction. Biking is a good idea and I might give it a shot" and people working off the back of it.

As opposed to the chorus of "fraud, pointless, cheat, idiot, charletan waster." which robs absolutely everything of positive momentum and achieves absolutely nothing. Absolutely and utterly nothing except make people who don't even try to do anything feel good about it becuase at least they don't take a kicking. As a result of that less people will be inclined to bike.

Like I said inactivity is priviledged over activity. It's ridiculous. It's like we are engaged in one eternal and highly trivial bickering argument of pointing fingers and snide remarks. Life is too short.

As for the pure motive thing. There are not many Ghandi's and Mother Theresa's, and I dout either fo them would win many votes in Britian or the USA becuase, unfortunately, they do not represent the wishes of those of those populations.

If the world can only be run by those who are pure as the driven snow I would like some of them who are interested and competant in politics to be found. I am confused, if they are out there, why they have not turned up in the last two hundered years of democratic governance

[thenodrog]

jbn.... given that for decades there were in the region of 650 sitting MP's and that now with much of our day to day life governed from Brussels, with computer technology / internet facilities / mob phones / hi speed travel links etc etc that we still need to fund 650+ sitting MP's? In 'my time' people involved in producing cars / ships / steel / coal has reduced dramatically so why are we funding the same amount of politicians that we always have? It's long past time for a cull but of course that would be like turkeys voting for Christmas wouldn't it?

[blue phil]

Well I'm all for a long truce ; it all gets too much for even me sometimes ....

[colin]

Not all of them are exclusively Daily Mail readers . I imagine the number of readers of the Mail as a fraction of the population is minute . But hey ...don't let that stop you blaming the paper for all the nation's ills .

Phil, I'm not blaming The Daily Mail exclusively, but it does contribute to the national paranioa, as do others. Neither am I trying to say that all is well in the UK. But have a look at this collection....

[T4E]

btw I seem to rem that you had a vendetta against the 3 'T's

That explains so much......