[Archived] Liverpool V Rovers

[joey_big_nose]

I couldn't believe the team Hughes picked today. Liverpool's strength is in midfield, where they play 5 men using two holding players, wide men who frequently drift inside to supplement the central areas, and Gerrard who plays a free role behind Torres. So it was a bit of a surprise that we chose this game to play our weakest central midfield pairing of the season. If ever a game was crying out for Mokoena to sit in front of our back four it was this one. Gerrard had the freedom of the park.

However, it's still possible to beat a team with a much stronger midfiled by by-passing them. We could either play with width and try to go round them or we could play it long and try to go over them. We did neither. The ridiculous decision to play Bentley in the middle meant that we tried to play everything through the middle, and Liverpool just picked us off and dominated the pattern of play throughout the whole match.

Great points.

I have no idea why Bentley wasn't out right. I mean thats where he wants to play for England? He has impressed me when he has started to drift at the end of games, or when he starts up front, but he has never impressed me in that role behind the front two when he starts. Hughes has tried it three or four times now and he just doesn't hurt other teams as much as when he is on the right.

And your right about Liverpool's midfield. Kuyt is theoretically a striker but he plays right wing effectively, and tirelessly, so we were fighting against real workhorses. But to balance it up I guess the problem we have though is that if we play 451 then how in God's name are we ever going to get near the Liverpool penalty area? Cruz on his own would get so little support and it would just be a game of us giving the ball back to Liverpool as they come out to attack us.

We need to seriously rethink our tactics. I hate to say it but the Villa/Portsmouth model of compact 433 with speed on the wings looks like an option we need for these games.

[Hughesy]

Too many dooms day people on here. If Benni & Pedersen were at last seasons form again this year then we would be alot higher in the league.

I think we started the season very well but then the players started believing in themselves too much.

Today we were poor, we made stupid errors - in particular Cruz & Nelsen who both gave the ball away to allow pool goals. I also felt that we lacked any real threat today, lack of pace and too obvious when going forward. I also thought alot of our team didnt play as a team today and some appeared to be playing for themselves rather than for their team mates.

We are still doing well - 9th with the potential to finish 8th or hopefully 7th - although that now looks very unlikely. Im sure other clubs look at us as a great role model, based on the cash we have spent. Look at the difference in cost in our team and liverpools.

[grizfoot]

If you took that photo Ozzie you can't have been sat far away from me?

Did you see a Liverpool fan jump up and down after Santa Cruz scored our conselation - he was celebrating the fact that he had torres to score first and RSC to score the last goal at 150-1 - pretty goo day out for him

Just got back from Liverpool. Incredibly disappointed with the lads and result.

Didn't Gerrard score the first though?

[tony gale's mic]

I don't know about that. Our team is, I think, not much worse than Everton's. We have a lot of players with talent and we need to build on that. If we can reinforce in the key areas (as we should be able to) of Striker, Central midfield and Left Wing then I think we will be more than good.

I am suprised that people think that Nelsen looks bad, he has looked fine to me since coming back. I have no problem with Emerton or Roberts, or any of our players bar MGP and, unfortunately, Reid who looks a shadow of his former self.

Samba made a lot of mistakes to day but he also showed his quality at times. We need to work with that and sharpen him up. Bentley was the subject of wavering support and derision on here till he came through this season.

The worst thing that could happen at Rovers is if the manger loses faith in his players the way the fans do.

The addition of pace and creativity will bring the best out of the rest of the squad.

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of these doom and gloom merchants. People seem to be forgetting that we're on course to improve from last seasons performance despite other teams spending more and all this relegation talk is nonsense.

And yes, our team isn't that far off Everton's, but it's enough of a difference to make it significant. Lescott, Yakubu, Arteta, Cahill, Yobo, even Baines and Johnson I'd say would get into our team. Who from ours would make theirs? Santa, Bentley, Friedel, maybe Warnock on a good day.

Hopefully Hughes will use this £10 million wisely. Sure there's "no problem" with the likes of Emerton or Roberts, they do a job but there's just that bit more quality in the sides around us, we have a few too many of these types of players in our side to be 6th right now, there's little question that Villa are a better side.

[grizfoot]

The only difference this season is we started off in good form and now are starting to dip towards the end of the season. Usual it's the other way round and we come on strong towards the end of the season.

[JAL]

Too many dooms day people on here. If Benni & Pedersen were at last seasons form again this year then we would be alot higher in the league.

I think we started the season very well but then the players started believing in themselves too much.

Today we were poor, we made stupid errors - in particular Cruz & Nelsen who both gave the ball away to allow pool goals. I also felt that we lacked any real threat today, lack of pace and too obvious when going forward. I also thought alot of our team didnt play as a team today and some appeared to be playing for themselves rather than for their team mates.

We are still doing well - 9th with the potential to finish 8th or hopefully 7th - although that now looks very unlikely. Im sure other clubs look at us as a great role model, based on the cash we have spent. Look at the difference in cost in our team and liverpools.

At least Mark Hughes said there wasnt much between the teams until they scored.

[Hughesy]

And yes, our team isn't that far off Everton's, but it's enough of a difference to make it significant. Lescott, Yakubu, Arteta, Cahill, Yobo, even Baines and Johnson I'd say would get into our team. Who from ours would make theirs? Santa, Bentley, Friedel, maybe Warnock on a good day.

Hopefully Hughes will use this £10 million wisely. Sure there's "no problem" with the likes of Emerton or Roberts, they do a job but there's just that bit more quality in the sides around us, we have a few too many of these types of players in our side to be 6th right now, there's little question that Villa are a better side.

So would you play 3 upfront then - Roque, Johnson & Yakubu? Baines? No thanks! Arteta or Lescott Yes please they would improve.

[tony gale's mic]

So would you play 3 upfront then - Roque, Johnson & Yakubu? Baines? No thanks! Arteta or Lescott Yes please they would improve.

No I'd have Roque and Yakubu, but Johnson would get into our side if Yakubu wasnt around.

[USABlue]

Scotty sums things up very well I feel:

However, I can't help wondering what might have been given the form we showed in the first third of the season.

I'm sort of wondering what would be if we had NOT shown that form. Thankfully we did but next season may be a bit of a worry if we don't get it together.

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm sort of wondering what would be if we had NOT shown that form. Thankfully we did but next season may be a bit of a worry if we don't get it together.

Devil's advocate mode:

Things were certainly going swimmingly well at least until the Spurs away game at the end of October. Savage got a bad injury in the second half of that game and for whatever reason never got back in the side and/or recovered his form on a consistent basis.

Was that the turning point for us? I think it was but I'd be interested to hear other viewpoints.

[USABlue]

The 36 price put me off, so i got a junior and got in easily at 21 posing as a bloody 15 year old

I thought we played well in the first half, however we let this slip a lot in the 2nd half and got punished for silly mistakes, like the ref will do probably for missing roberts legit goal and the penalties for liverpool and the two last man challenges on roberts. but ney mind

Hard to tell from the TV angle but BOTH Liverpools 2nd and 3rd looked suspiscious for offside to me, I'd sure like to see them from the linesmans angle and in slow mo. Not likely though is it since the highlights here showed neither Roberts disallowed goal or what I felt should have been a red for the foul on Roberts. They did however feel it important enough to show Gerrards dive on Friedel and Samba clattering him from behind. Go figure huh?

[DaveyB]

Devil's advocate mode:

Things were certainly going swimmingly well at least until the Spurs away game at the end of October. Savage got a bad injury in the second half of that game and for whatever reason never got back in the side and/or recovered his form on a consistent basis.

Was that the turning point for us? I think it was but I'd be interested to hear other viewpoints.

Said exactly the same thing to the missus earlier on (though I don't think she really cared!!) - our side had been built around Savage for the past 3 seasons, he was the heartbeat of the team, and we saw at the end of last season how much we missed him. When he went off against spurs and his subsequent loss of form it cost us dear - we had an awful period just after which knocked the confidence of the whole side and, even now, we've still not adapted to playing without him - we don't even know what our strongest CM pairing is at the mo.

[USABlue]

I think Reina's speed and positioning saved Skrtel, he was already at the edge of his area and advancing as Roberts was turning and would have gotten to the ball first had play gone on.

Errmm, Le Chuck I have thought about this at length and have come up with a pertinent response...... ######.

I am not sure the last man rule reads "unless someone else can run very very fast and get to the ball before the attacker" Apart from that I disagree with your assesment, he was last man and last man, as we well know by now we've had it shoved down our throats so often, is last man.

[FourLaneBlue]

I don´t really know what will happen with Vogel but being shoved into the thick of things after not playing all season...the lad hasn´t been given a chance. Unfair to judge him too quickly.

Hopefully Dunn and Benni to start the next game.

Skrtl´s challenge was a blatant sending-off..last man and brought down when clean through on goal. Not too sure why anyone would argue that except to be peverse and troll a bit.

Still no excuses...we deserved exactly what we got today. Nothing.

[LeChuck]

Errmm, Le Chuck I have thought about this at length and have come up with a pertinent response...... ######.

I am not sure the last man rule reads "unless someone else can run very very fast and get to the ball before the attacker" Apart from that I disagree with your assesment, he was last man and last man, as we well know by now we've had it shoved down our throats so often, is last man.

There isn't a 'last man' rule as you put it, it's about denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity...it just so happens that 95% of the time, if the offender is last man, they will be preventing a goalscoring opportunity.

Here is the only part of the law that Skrtel could have been sent off under:

"denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick"

Using that definition, if the referee believed Reina would have made it to the ball first then he's right to show a yellow, remember it has to be an obvious opportunity.

Skrtl´s challenge was a blatant sending-off..last man and brought down when clean through on goal. Not too sure why anyone would argue that except to be peverse and troll a bit.

How is a trolling by trying to explain how the referee came to the conclusion he did over the incident? Maybe if people knew the rules better (and didn't invent their own) then the 'trolling' wouldn't be required.

[Eddie]

I don't think Reina would have got to the ball first. If you look, had Roberts not been taken down, I am sure that he would have had a touch on the ball not soon after it had crossed his body. It should have been a red card, but then Samba should have gone in the first half, so we can't really complain too much.

[Roost]

Considering that this a a game this Rovers needed a draw minimum it was probably the worst away performance of the season.

We were so flat and looked uninterested for long periods. I thought Liverpool were there for the taking.

We just needed to get a grip on the midfield - oh, thats the problem, we didnt really have much of a midfield. Playing Bentley inside with Reid outside of him just didnt work at all - Reid is so one footed that he has to piruette through 360 degrees to get the ball on his good foot and this causes him to lose the ball too often.

We just ended up playing very narrow and gave the midifeld up to the scousers.

Some top songs started by Rovers fans!!

"You're just a fat spanish waiter" to Rafa

"If you won the league at Anfield clap your hands"

Roll on next season..........................

One Love - BRFC

[Martin]

I have to say first half I thought we did ok - not brilliantly - but we did ok.

The second half we were dismal. When Benni came on and we went to 4-3-3 Liverpool sliced through us in a big way. At that stage we couldn't cope.

Samba needs dropping. Everything he does looks rash and clumsy. If he gets beat, his only response is to foul not to recover. Such a big difference from a player I thought would finish this season as one the PL's best centre backs. He's young and wil come again, but needs dropping at present.

Reid is another who looks off the pace and in my eyes has done ever since his return. His touch is heavy, struggles to go forward and pass forward. I wonder how much his injury has affected him (permanently). Hopefully, a full pre-season will sort him.

I will give Vogel time. Still haven't worked out what type of player he is. That probably indicates how little he has been involved. It's easy to say now with benefit of time but this game was tailor made for Mokoena.

Roque looks tired but still offers more over 90 than Benni. Roberts is busy and works hard but ultimately his lack of technique is his downfall. At this level you need that.

Whilst this season is fizzling out I do think we have a chance (with some shrewd investment) to really push on next season.

[Flopsy]

wrong team selection

wrong tactics selected

substitutions too late in coming

story of the season after November

1) I would only play 4-4-2 at Anfield if we are playing at the top of the game, full of confidence and with a 100% dynamo in midfield such as Savage or Flitcroft (Please note only if they were at the TOP of our game), if not 4-5-1 to start and then possibly change it when the game opens up at the end.

2) If it is patently not working, as was quite obvious before half time, bloody change it, it was obvious that Liverpool were all over us like a rash, and that it was only a matter of time before Liverpool punished us, Gerrard was all over us and no one was picking him up, Samba kept getting exposed and we werent winning any decent possession in midfield. Therefore change it, Roberts is not an effective striker against someone like Carragher, he'll keep him check all day. We needed guile more than power, and its no coincidence that with the introduction of Dunn and McCarthy we actually looked like a decent side, but by then we were chasing the game and got punished for it.

3) Subs were at least 10 minutes too late

4) At some point you have to stop blaming the players and look at the Manager who keeps picking them and is surprised when the same thing keeps on happening. I'm not advocating the sacking of Hughes, but he's more to blame for us not pushing harder for Europe this season than any one player.

5) Harumpf

[Cheshireblue]

1) I would only play 4-4-2 at Anfield if we are playing at the top of the game, full of confidence and with a 100% dynamo in midfield such as Savage or Flitcroft (Please note only if they were at the TOP of our game), if not 4-5-2 to start and then possibly change it when the game opens up at the end.

4-5-2 would just be cheating Flops. Even Alan Wiley would spot that.

We should never have sold Savage. He's not everyones cup of tea but we are a different team without him.Perhaps a fit Reid or Dunn can cover, but we have neither at the moment.

[Ozz]

If you took that photo Ozzie you can't have been sat far away from me?

Did you see a Liverpool fan jump up and down after Santa Cruz scored our conselation - he was celebrating the fact that he had torres to score first and RSC to score the last goal at 150-1 - pretty goo day out for him

Just got back from Liverpool. Incredibly disappointed with the lads and result.

Yes I was sat there Hannah. The lad who had the bet was I think on the right result, 3-1 Liverpool. He was panicking in the last two minutes every time the ball went near the goal for fear of losing his punt if another goal was scored.

[modes98]

Hard to tell from the TV angle but BOTH Liverpools 2nd and 3rd looked suspiscious for offside to me, I'd sure like to see them from the linesmans angle and in slow mo. Not likely though is it since the highlights here showed neither Roberts disallowed goal or what I felt should have been a red for the foul on Roberts. They did however feel it important enough to show Gerrards dive on Friedel and Samba clattering him from behind. Go figure huh?

The entire sky program annoyed me. There was a pre match liverpool chat, a interview with Mark Hughes and then a montage of liverpools best bits this season. At half time they showed the 2 incidents you mentioned, nothing on the Roberts offside or the awful challenge by Srktel on Reid, which could have easily broken his ankle. They had Redknapp on there giving his opinion which is worth about as much as Lawrensons and no representative from rovers.

All in all i thought we did ok in the game. You are never going to go to Anfield and outplay them.

They didn't look like scoring until Santa Cruz handed the ball to them for their first, but it is debatable whether they should have been down to 10 or even 9 men by then, given the constant diving and horrific Srktel tackling. Granted the ref missed the Samba foul but that evens things up for the one he got sent off for against Wigan. The second goal was gifted to them as well, through Nelsen and was only because we were pushing. The third was once we had given up and the Cruz goal was just special.

We didn't create enough really and i thought Hughes got it badly wrong by moving Bentley to the middle. Roberts did a job, i still would have taken him off for Benni and stuck with MGP. Benni looked very lively and should be given a start against the Mancs, which is now a must win, not a position we wanted to be in!

[tcj_jones]

They didn't look like scoring until Santa Cruz handed the ball to them for their first

Sorry Modes, not meaning to pick on your specifically, but I just cannot believe I'm reading comments like this from so many people.

We looked very shaky at the back, as if we might concede at any moment for almost the entire first half. There was the "almost" penalty incident and the red card that wasn't given and I remember Torres heading very narrowly wide from a corner. There were a few blocked shots in the box and a number of times when Liverpool players were brough down in dangerous positions and free kicks conceded. Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt and Babbel were found in space far too often.

The commentary for the whole first half was along the lines of "well it's only a matter of time before Liverpool score". Normally that sorta thing irates me, but they were absolutely right. We looked like we could ship a shed load.

[Rovermatt]

I personally found that to be one of the most shapeless, uninspired performances that I've seen this season. We were simply awful against a Liverpool side who were clearly knackered after Tuesday night and who created relatively few chances in spite of their effortless possession.

Goodbye Europe.

[SAS]

Scott-was that you and your boy on the train from Lime St to Oxford, then to Bolton?

Most probably, had to sit on bloody floor lime st to oxford road

Its my bro, not my boy

Lets make that clear

BTW did anyone see the can thrown from the top tier into our end?, pretty sure it was a can