[Archived] Most Over Rated Player

[AggyBlue]

When i've seen nearly forty years of football and watch regularly live football on TV when someone comes in at that age i see all kinds of skills, mannerisms from a player that makes me think hes a good one, in Vogel i see nothing, except someone who has very very little to offer at this level.

He might well have looked good in Holland and Italy but he looks a claret to me thats the best compliment i can give him and its a damming one.

Maybe i should try my hand at scouting because whoever scouted this lad along with some of the young lads at the academy, have shown themselves not to be upto the task of progressing Blackburn Rovers forward.

Anyone worth their salt would give him at least a dozen games. It's not like he comes to us without any pedigree.

Like you though, initial impression's aren't too good.

[JAL]

Has Vogel slept with your missus or something? You're clearly unwilling to give the man a chance. I thought he did ok against Liverpool - 2 of the 3 goals were scored after he came off. Once he's match fit and used to the Premiership pace - I think he'll be a decent player for us. To write him off already is stupid.

Can he tackle, has he got pace, does he have a varied range of passing, does he have vision can he see things others cant, can he hit a thirty yarder does he have that competitive edge or is he just an ordinary A.N.Other.

He doesnt seem to pack a punch for me on the field of football

[Eddie]

If he's still playing as he is now after 6-12 games then I'd agree with you, but the vast majority of players coming in from abroad, regardless of the team they play on or their quality, need time to adapt. The fact that he hasn't played in so long means that there is an even greater need for him to be given time. Whether or not he should actually be playing is another question, but that has to be levelled at Hughes and not at his ability. It also highlights the serious weakness we have in the centre of midfield.

[ABBEY]

players coming in from abroad, regardless of the team they play on or their quality, need time to adapt.

hope torres doesnt adapt

[Eddie]

Well Torres is an exception. As was Benni, as is Roque, etc... I'll

[LeftWinger]

Dennis Bergkamp was poor when he first started at Arsenal - and then became one of the greatest foreigners ever to play in England.

[philipl]

Might as well stick this here but it seems because of the Rovers' reputation, the top teams are playing us by out-Blackburning Blackburn. And as we have a china doll midfield- MGP psychologically and Dunn and Reid with their injury history, teams are finding that if they have the skill, power and pace they can completely disrupt us and force the match-winning mistake sooner or later.

As I pointed out last week, Vogel eventually played his way into the Spuds game and nullified their midfield dominance.

Liverpool did to us exactly the same as they did to Arsenal mid-week and both Vogel and Rovers had no answer to it. For Rovers on Sunday, the match-defining moment was the second minute when the linesman's PIG failed to assist the referee.

Back to Vogel, I will be disappointed if we do not see some more of his class in the last three games but I am terrified by the Man U game.

[sparky12]

i v seen shevchenko thrown around alot in this thread but persanally he's a quality player.

he's not doing anything chelsea i agre with that..... but i think thats chelsea's fault

evryone's forgeting his time in italy.. at milan no doubt he was the greatest player in the world for many years.

i think he's one of the most underated players in the country.

[neekoy]

i v seen shevchenko thrown around alot in this thread but persanally he's a quality player.

he's not doing anything chelsea i agre with that..... but i think thats chelsea's fault

evryone's forgeting his time in italy.. at milan no doubt he was the greatest player in the world for many years.

i think he's one of the most underated players in the country.

It all comes back to this ridiculous notion that if you don't fit the Premier League you are a failure.

This never gets bandied around when a player leaves the Premier League and doesn't find form (Henry) he is just past it.

On the other hand I don't feel sorry for him, he chased the dollars and a challenge. He got both of them.

To me is seems as they play him in some kind of 'fox in the box' role or as a 'target man'. He is neither of those.

[rover6]

Liverpool did to us exactly the same as they did to Arsenal mid-week and both Vogel and Rovers had no answer to it. For Rovers on Sunday, the match-defining moment was the second minute when the linesman's PIG failed to assist the referee.

TO be honest, I'm not sure if Vogel did nullify Spurs midfield dominance. They seem to nullify themselves, like a narcissistic model bewitched by his own reflection. Just like against ROvers, Spurs played outstanding, fluent football in the first half versus Boro last week. Just like against Rovers, they only scored one and wasted a hatful of chances. And just like against Rovers, they let the lead slip and their performance tapered into disappointing.

[JAL]

The same amount of years it would take for you to grow up and come out with sensible sentences (40 - 31 = 9).

I question why employ a 31year old plus who hasnt played for a year and doesnt look good enough and you say give him time, ninety minutes thats how much time he gets if selected.

Come twelve games from now the premier league with all its money will have changed progressively from this moment on, is he a man to progress Rovers.

You and others may think so, i and many others think not.

[Billy Castell]

I question why employ a 31year old plus who hasnt played for a year and doesnt look good enough and you say give him time, ninety minutes thats how much time he gets if selected.

Come twelve games from now the premier league with all its money will have changed progressively from this moment on, is he a man to progress Rovers.

You and others may think so, i and many others think not.

So let's spend £15m on a younger player who has been playing well all season. Hold on, we can't. Due to contractual problems, he hasn't played much, hence the lack of form. Perhaps he'll get going next season, with pre-season practice. How many games has he played for Rovers? And yet he is apparently the worst player ever after about 3 games.

[JAL]

So let's spend £15m on a younger player who has been playing well all season. Hold on, we can't. Due to contractual problems, he hasn't played much, hence the lack of form. Perhaps he'll get going next season, with pre-season practice. How many games has he played for Rovers? And yet he is apparently the worst player ever after about 3 games.

I'm not saying hes the worst ever, just average too average for me , i dont think hes good enough to take Rovers forward.

That means improve Rovers first team so much so that he'll give us a platform next year to beat those top ten teams that we've failed to beat this season along with the rest.

[Billy Castell]

Thing is, such quality doesn't come for 50p and a couple of porno mags very often, if at all. He may have been the best on offer at this time, and may yet show he's up to it. There are many examples of slow starters.

Oh, and Berbatov is over rated.

[JAL]

Thing is, such quality doesn't come for 50p and a couple of porno mags very often, if at all. He may have been the best on offer at this time, and may yet show he's up to it. There are many examples of slow starters.

Oh, and Berbatov is over rated.

I have to ask why did Hughes jump at the chance and take him was it a good move from Mark Hughes or was Hughes desperate for some new blood to shake things up?.

We've some senior players like Ooijer who has been the pick of the defence, and yes i agree with you that he did start off slowly and since played magnificently but i dont want to see too many elder players aespecially as we could be linked with Giggs and Scholes who are well into their thirties.

I want to see an unpredicatable, off the wall type, of young player in the centre of Rovers midfield not some sterile ageing Swiss footballer.

Watching Rovers this season has been frustrating because we move the ball out wide at every opportunity were as i'd like to see a little more variation in our play with someone in the centre of midfield who can drive straight down the middle and balance out our attacking play.

Defensive midfielder what we need is the all round central midfielder not one that has limitations to his game.

[philipl]

Rather puzzled how Vogel can appear on the most over-rated list when he has played just over one and a half Premiership games.

[waggy]

babel of liverpoo

[JAL]

I don't think Hughes is the sort to do that. The guy knows what he wants and wouldn't intentionally bring in any old player to make up the numbers.

But he did just that with Bruno and Henchoz two fellow Swiss players, did he not.

[JAL]

babel of liverpoo

For me he looks out of position stuck there on the left hand side when he looks like he'd be far more comfortable playing in a central position then you might see a different sort of player.

But yes, at this moment in time Babels overrated.

[philipl]

Bruno- experienced international full back signed at same time as Warnock, a player with a pretty horrific history of injuries so it was understandable Hughes went for the cover. No doubt Rovers had about a dozen full backs under scrutiny as we had plenty of fore-warning that Lucas was off.

Henchoz- most Prem sides operate with five proven central defenders in the squad. Again a proven international defender who came in when we had some injury problems. Woy's best signing for us sold at a handsome profiy after playing consistently well in a terrible team and gasn't let us down when called on in this spell.

Absolutely no hint of "making up the numbers" with any of the three Swiss guys. All of them are sensible additions in the context of running a Premiership club in the top half on less resources than our peer group.

[JAL]

Bruno- experienced international full back signed at same time as Warnock, a player with a pretty horrific history of injuries so it was understandable Hughes went for the cover. No doubt Rovers had about a dozen full backs under scrutiny as we had plenty of fore-warning that Lucas was off.

Henchoz- most Prem sides operate with five proven central defenders in the squad. Again a proven international defender who came in when we had some injury problems. Woy's best signing for us sold at a handsome profiy after playing consistently well in a terrible team and gasn't let us down when called on in this spell.

Absolutely no hint of "making up the numbers" with any of the three Swiss guys. All of them are sensible additions in the context of running a Premiership club in the top half on less resources than our peer group.

Cant fault your analysis of the Swiss lads until i read the last paragraph, the end result for Blackburn Rovers first team on the field of play has been that their standard of performances have been insufficient to warrant an extended run in the team, which for me means they are purely making the numbers up.

What happened in the past is great for these guys, but they dont bring anything extra to Rovers, they dont increase our chances of winning, ive got to say they are just short term fillers, who need to be replaced as soon as is possible with your younger slicker model.

[S15]

I can't help but correct Philip but Henchoz was signed for around £3m and sold for something very similar.

Not, as you suggested, for a healthy profit.

[rover6]

Bruno- experienced international full back signed at same time as Warnock, a player with a pretty horrific history of injuries so it was understandable Hughes went for the cover. No doubt Rovers had about a dozen full backs under scrutiny as we had plenty of fore-warning that Lucas was off.

Henchoz- most Prem sides operate with five proven central defenders in the squad. Again a proven international defender who came in when we had some injury problems. Woy's best signing for us sold at a handsome profiy after playing consistently well in a terrible team and gasn't let us down when called on in this spell.

Absolutely no hint of "making up the numbers" with any of the three Swiss guys. All of them are sensible additions in the context of running a Premiership club in the top half on less resources than our peer group.

Phil, I've heard that George Bush is in need of an image improvement - I think you'd be the perfect spin doctor.

If I am not mistaken, Hughes' signed Berner when he found that McEveley didn't want to hang around. So, he didn't have the forewarning you suggest. Berner was a panic signing.

John Williams suggested that we'd look to our own to support the first team but that has not materialised. This is very sad because some of the back-up players we have signed are crap or past-it or both. I have posited this example time and time again:

It was only because HUghes was FORCED into playing Derbyshire that we currently have this promising young contributor to the first team. Had Roberts, Shabani Nonda or jeffers or some Bosman mercenary been available at the time, Derbyshire would not have got his chance.

[Hasta]

I just want to tap into your thoughts on this... by 'past-it' are you referring to Stephane Henchoz (who is only 33)? And by 'crap' are you referring to Berner (Switzerland's first choice left back who has put in decent performances as a minimum for the Rovers when required)?

He probably is referring to them two. However...

Henchoz is no longer the player he was in his first spell and is far too slow. Therefore, for the level we are looking to be competing at, he is past it.

Berner has shown nothing when he plays, culminating in one of the worst displays I've seen from a Rovers player at the Emirates this year, hence crap.

[rover6]

(Switzerland's first choice left back who has put in decent performances as a minimum for the Rovers when required)?

Bruno Berner is not in the Switzerland national squad, let alone first choice. However, let's not go on about him because this is OT.