[Archived] Rovers Takeover Thread

[Eddie]

No, I understood what you said, but I'd like to think I look at it in a more realistic way. When/If the football bubble bursts wages and general expenditure will be adjusted over a season or two, certainly not before the crisis. This means that for a club like us, where wages already make up a huge percentage of our turn-over, survival, both in terms of premiership football and financial viability, will be unlikely. The only way either could be saved would be if we had an owner willing to ride out the tough period and wait for the footballing world to adjust to the new financial enviroment. We don't appear to have owners like that at the moment.

[Exiled in Toronto]

No matter how much the Trustees want to offload the club, they can only do so by meeting the criteria set out in the deeds of the Trust.

But surely Brian the Trustees must realise that their desire to sell the club, if it carries on like this, will end up in itself damaging the prospects and value of the club and thus, presumably, contradict the terms they are operating under?

[BlueMonday]

But surely Brian the Trustees must realise that their desire to sell the club, if it carries on like this, will end up in itself damaging the prospects and value of the club and thus, presumably, contradict the terms they are operating under?

You would hope they are shrewd enough to realise that

[j166429]

I've heard something pretty interesting but would like verification from some of the experts around.

I prefer two sources.

Dan Williams has put in a new bid??

[nicko]

Dan Williams has put in a new bid??

No, not that.

[roverich]

McClown is beginning to realise that his chances of getting the manager's job are slim so he is launching a bid himself so that he can force his way onto us?

[BrianPotter]

But surely Brian the Trustees must realise that their desire to sell the club, if it carries on like this, will end up in itself damaging the prospects and value of the club and thus, presumably, contradict the terms they are operating under?

That is certainly possible EIT. That's what makes it such a difficult situation. We obviously don't know exactly what the criteria imposed on any sale would be - simply saying that a takeover must put the club in a better position than it is currently is a very broad statement.

It is becoming very diffiucult to guage exactly what it would take to meet that statement, especially now as the trustees are not providing any direct funding for the club.

It's my opinion that the major stumbling block will relate to the clubs future, which under the current trust setup is pretty much guaranteed. I don't think it relates to money for transfers, wealth of the new owner(s) etc etc.

As a business man myself, this whole saga is somewhat confusing. On one hand you have the Trustees with a desire to sell, but on the other hand they seem reluctant to sell the club to anybody who cannot prove and double prove their integrity and suitability. Whether this is because their hands are tied by the deeds we dont know, but they know the constraints of the Trust and should also therefore be aware of any potential problems these constraints will pose in relation to a prospective sale. So why attempt to sell something if the matters beyond your control mean the chances of the deal going through are very slim.

The whole situation doesn't really help us to go forward as a club at all. If a sale isn't going to happen then the Trustees need to accept this and try to move the club forward as best they can.

[leftfooter]

McClown is beginning to realise that his chances of getting the manager's job are slim so he is launching a bid himself so that he can force his way onto us?

I'm starting to feel violated

[Exiled in Toronto]

As a business man myself, this whole saga is somewhat confusing. On one hand you have the Trustees with a desire to sell, but on the other hand they seem reluctant to sell the club to anybody who cannot prove and double prove their integrity and suitability. Whether this is because their hands are tied by the deeds we dont know, but they know the constraints of the Trust and should also therefore be aware of any potential problems these constraints will pose in relation to a prospective sale. So why attempt to sell something if the matters beyond your control mean the chances of the deal going through are very slim.

The whole situation doesn't really help us to go forward as a club at all. If a sale isn't going to happen then the Trustees need to accept this and try to move the club forward as best they can.

I don't get it either.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Could the situation actually be that the trust are holding out for higher price? We have been fed the line that the trust carry out their business in the best interests of rovers and only have rovers at heart. Then we here tit-bits that no-one within the trust is a fan nor have any particular empathy with the club. Thus the subsequent temporary freeze on funds to the club.

Could it be that trust is squeezing any potential buyers too tight? We have no official lines on this apart from hearsay.

[American]

Dan Williams has put in a new bid??

Nah, Nicko is his mouthpiece, so would be the first to know!!

Fife, you're living a pipe dream. If there is one thing I've seen in sport too much is the willingness of owners to lose money owning a team. There are also too many new markets who's potential is just beginning to be tapped for the game to go in the direction you are hoping. Plus all of you who subscribe to Sky and Setanta.

I could see there becoming a European Super-League (or a series of leagues with their own promotion/relegation) that drives down popular interest in whichever clubs don't get in.

[blue phil]

I could see there becoming a European Super-League (or a series of leagues with their own promotion/relegation) that drives down popular interest in whichever clubs don't get in.

That scenario would drive UP my interest in Rovers (if we were to remain in an English league ) ........

[Iceman]

Nobody wants to buy us,because the trust and all concerned are greedy tossers.

[iamarover]

Nobody wants to buy us,because the trust and all concerned are greedy tossers.

A tad harsh. They dont take any money out of the club. Most other owners reward themselves with dividends or 'expenses' as in the case of the Yankee Scousers. They dont borrow money against the club and then milk it to pay the huge loan they have lumped on the club like the Glazers have done. In fact personally they make nothing at all personally from 'owning' the Rovers. The trust has high standards and we should be thankful of that. And they dont interfere in the running of the club.

What more do you want? We have owners who won't get in the way of the best management in the EPL, who don't want to earn any money for their own personal gain, and who demand from anyone who approaches them guarantees that safeguard us from the hell that is Brighton, Mansfield, Liverpool, United, York, Wrexham.... need I go on?

No they aren't 'investing'. But who the devil will? How possibly is anyone going to get any money back out of the Rovers? If, as some believe, there is a pot of gold over the rainbow in terms of increased revenue etc. then the Trust will allow us to take all that money in house to be re invested. They demand nothing. But the best for the club... I just don't get this anti-Trust thing. One day we may all be sorry they have gone.

[philipl]

What hold up?

[iamarover]

What hold up?

?

[Alan75]

Great response Iamarover to Icemans post - couldnt have put it better.

[Mc Love]

The only way we will have continued investment if we turn out and win a few trophies, or at least a trophy a season

[Whyoy]

About to show my ignorance, but here goes ......................If a sale does go ahead and the trust obtains relatively substantial funds as a result, what will happen to those funds. Will the trust be wound up because the purpose of that trust has been fulfilled. If so, where will the funds go to? Back to the Walker family? Does the purpose of the trust continue ie "the generally accepted well-being of BRFC" because the club will continue to exist albeit under different ownership. If so, will the trust continue to be obliged to put funds into the club despite no longer having ownership of the assets?

If the former, then the efforts of the trustees to achieve a best price despite the new owners having to satisfy qualifying criteria is not particularly in the best interests of BRFC. If the latter, then the generated funds will all eventually come back to the club at such time as the trust deems appropriate. In other words this could be a fallback fund if the new owners make a hash of running the club.

[philipl]

The trust is a large holding operation within which the Rovers are an anomoly of being both an asset and a beneficiary. It will continue irrespective of any sale of the Rovers to the best of my knowledge.

I posted What holdup in reply to a point on the Manager thread- sorry wasn't concentrating.

On the Manager, the club has expressed a hope to appoint this weekend but if the candidates are all not good enough I hope the supporters have the sense to encourage the Board to take their time to search for the right person rather panic about it.

On the sale of the club, quite clearly nobody has yet come remotely close to meeting whatever criteria the Trust has.

[iamarover]

About to show my ignorance, but here goes ......................If a sale does go ahead and the trust obtains relatively substantial funds as a result, what will happen to those funds. Will the trust be wound up because the purpose of that trust has been fulfilled. If so, where will the funds go to? Back to the Walker family? Does the purpose of the trust continue ie "the generally accepted well-being of BRFC" because the club will continue to exist albeit under different ownership. If so, will the trust continue to be obliged to put funds into the club despite no longer having ownership of the assets?

If the former, then the efforts of the trustees to achieve a best price despite the new owners having to satisfy qualifying criteria is not particularly in the best interests of BRFC. If the latter, then the generated funds will all eventually come back to the club at such time as the trust deems appropriate. In other words this could be a fallback fund if the new owners make a hash of running the club.

If the trust sells then yes it is wound up and has no more to do with BRFC. The club passes in its entirety to the new owners. There are 2 major differences though with a Trust sale vs. a private sale though.

1. There is not an obligation to achieve a best price. that is only part of the obligation. Assuming the Trust is set up properly then they will for instance be able to insist on the new owners demonstrating an ability to run the club efficiently and having the necessary funds to sustain it in times of need. That is a much more strict definition than best price.

2. Most crucially. And again assuming the Trust is set up well - which given the frustrations of buyers I gladly assume to be the case - they will also have an obligation to protect the club's assets. For example a new buyer might look at £50m for the club being more easily achieved by turning Brockhall into a bijou housing estate. And moving Rovers to an old Aldi car park in Baxenden with a bag of balls and a set of traffic cones for facilities. The trust will probably have to place covenants on the sale to ensure this never happens. This is common. Birmingham University has huge tracts of land given to them by the Cadbury family. But Bourneville village and the most of this land doesnt have any pubs - because the Cadbury's were Quakers and disapproved of drinking.

So the Rovers are the last bastion of Victorian philanthropy in some ways. Built for love and the desire to build community rather than maximise shareholder value or whatever despicable and opaque language Gla$er, Hick$ and the rest use to defend the sacking of old institutions.

Just like most kids hate their parents then ashamedly realise one day just what a magnificent discipline and protection they gave us. So we all will drink a toast one day to the absent Kings across the Jersey water. And, just like the Jacobite supporters of 1745, they will never ever come back.

[RevidgeBlue]

The Trust is supposed to be there for the benefit of ALL Jack's businesses, so presumably will continue for the benefit of the other businesses when Rovers are sold, but will have no further relevance to BRFC.

Save to the extent the Club may be protected to a greater or lesser degree by conditions attached to the sale.

Presumably any sale proceeds go to the Walker family.

[philipl]

This has been explained I don't know how many times before.

The Jack Walker Trust is effectively an investment and holding company.

Its assets include Flybe, high tech companies in the UK and USA and a lot of property.

and Blackburn Rovers.

It takes dividends, it sells its assets, it buys new ones.

Its income is available for distribution to the beneficiaries, which include Jack's family members and Blackburn Rovers.

How that is distributed is determined by the Trustees acting according to the Trust document.

So if Rovers get sold, the Trust continues and the cash from the sale will get re-invested elsewhere in the Trust in all probability.

[RevidgeBlue]

So if Rovers get sold, the Trust continues and the cash from the sale will get re-invested elsewhere in the Trust in all probability.

Possibly, but we don't know that.

[RevidgeBlue]

Its income is available for distribution to the beneficiaries, which include Jack's family members and Blackburn Rovers.

How that is distributed is determined by the Trustees acting according to the Trust document.

ahem..............cough.

Obviously acting with absolute discretion judging by recent events.