[Archived] Rovers Takeover Thread

[thenodrog]

If it's all so clear cut to us, why do the Trustees still have the club up for sale? Are they thick, as any poster who wants a takeover is made out to be on here?

They haven't sold in, what is it now, 3 years, and there's still a for sale sign on our front lawn and the house is beginning to look very run-down. Do they think that not spending a penny on the place will attract more buyers? I'm beginning to wonder why Jack entrusted his vast fortune to this lot.

He'd no option....... he only owned half of the wealth and unfortunately he died first.

[Tris]

To the best of our knowledge you are right that there is no buyer to be seen at the moment but the reason isn't necessarily the credit crunch. In my view it's down to price. How much do the trustees want for the club? On the face of it you could never imagine how Man City could make a sensible financial transaction out of a M100+ transfer of an italian league player to the premiership, how could they make that work, it's crazy, but yet it's not. They make money from sponsors and image rights and a hundred other cashflows we don't even think about. They and others are creative. We're pedestrian in our thinking. Does the money really flow into a club through the turnstiles and local sales in the club shop, no it comes from flogging the brand image around the world to people who want to associate themselves with a team in the greatest league in the world. They pay for TV viewing, they pay for strips and other merchandise. It's not that tough to make money when you understand how a business really works. Physically we are a small mill town club but our alter ego is that we are Super Rovers one of only 20 similar clubs on the whole planet. That's a sellable proposition. Someone said some while ago on hear that we could badge ourselves up to be the club of the rebellious non conformists of the world, a home for the anti-glory hunters. Good idea, a bit of original thinking. The Jersey boys want too much for a club that doesn't tap into these cash sources, simple as that. If they want a top price then they need to build the business if they can't or don't want to then they should sell for a lower price and let someone else invest. To honor any 'quality' clauses in Jack's Will the buyer could still end up financing 50-60 million but it would be better split as 20 million to the trust and a committed 30-40 million into a transfer pot thereby kick starting the image offensive. I have NON of the answers but if I can brainstorm a few trivial starters for 10 then I'm sure the Jersey Boys can. Non investment in the club is NOT and option. Sh1t or get off the pot.

re - flogging the brand image around the world.

The club went on a global search to put a new name on the shirt after Bet24. That global search led all the way to ... Darwen - and Crown Paints. In the context of the economic downturn it's a bloody good deal as well, but don't underestimate the fact that a local company saw the opportunity as more useful than the global giants you are craving.

Look at West Brom, one of "only 20 similar clubs on the whole planet" as you put it. They haven't even had a shirt sponsor all season. Aston Villa have gone the "Barcelona route" and have a local hospice on theirs. West Ham's went bust and they wore blank shirts for several weeks before dredging up a betting company to spoil the front of their shirt. AIG (on the shirt of the world champions) are mud, Northern Rock means you and I are paying to sponsor Newcastle through our taxes - the list goes on and on. It's not quite as simple as throwing in "trivial starters for ten" and then blaming the JW trust.

Closer to home again - look at our second tier of major sponsors - Walkersteel Blackburn End, WEC Darwen End, Fraser Eagle Stand. All three businesses within 10 miles of Ewood Park - and Fraser Eagle now in administration. Do you think global giants are queuing up to put their name on the Riverside??

re - It's not that tough to make money when you understand how a business really works.

Perhaps that's how the same JW trustees have made such an outstanding job running Flybe. They really do understand how to run a business. Sh!t or get off the pot you say. If the trustees get off the pot now, we really will be in the sh!t without them and no mistake.

[Fife Rover]

There is of course the possibility that Jack loved his club so much that he deliberately set conditions that HAD to be met before the club could be sold in the full knowledge and intention that nobody would ever be likely to be found that could or would want to meet those conditions, and therefore virtually guaranteed that Rovers would have to remain under the care of his Trustees for ever. Which is exactly what I would do if I had been in his position.

All you that want to see the club sold for your own selfish gratification are (I hope) doomed to everlasting disappointment.

[thenodrog]

re - flogging the brand image around the world.

The club went on a global search to put a new name on the shirt after Bet24. That global search led all the way to ... Darwen - and Crown Paints. In the context of the economic downturn it's a bloody good deal as well, but don't underestimate the fact that a local company saw the opportunity as more useful than the global giants you are craving.

Look at West Brom, one of "only 20 similar clubs on the whole planet" as you put it. They haven't even had a shirt sponsor all season. Aston Villa have gone the "Barcelona route" and have a local hospice on theirs. West Ham's went bust and they wore blank shirts for several weeks before dredging up a betting company to spoil the front of their shirt. AIG (on the shirt of the world champions) are mud, Northern Rock means you and I are paying to sponsor Newcastle through our taxes - the list goes on and on. It's not quite as simple as throwing in "trivial starters for ten" and then blaming the JW trust.

Closer to home again - look at our second tier of major sponsors - Walkersteel Blackburn End, WEC Darwen End, Fraser Eagle Stand. All three businesses within 10 miles of Ewood Park - and Fraser Eagle now in administration. Do you think global giants are queuing up to put their name on the Riverside??

re - It's not that tough to make money when you understand how a business really works.

Perhaps that's how the same JW trustees have made such an outstanding job running Flybe. They really do understand how to run a business. Sh!t or get off the pot you say. If the trustees get off the pot now, we really will be in the sh!t without them and no mistake.

Correct.

[Mike Graham]

Very sensible post from Tris.

The basic question must be: "Why would anyone want to buy Blackburn Rovers?".

There are a few people i know who could certainly afford it (not me ) but it would be throwing money away. No business person with any sense would touch us.

[PAFELL]

I don't think a takeover is too likely, but the financial outlook is not THAT bleak compared to other Premier League clubs.

If Rovers stay up they will lose a lot of big wages and possibly sell Roque which would give the manager money for the five or six new and fresh faces he needs.

There are a lot of clubs in bigger bother and with no way out of them in the summer...Portsmouth being the obvious one.

But there are clubs with more potential on the market for smaller prices, like Southampton and Sheffield Wednesday.

It's going to be a decisive few weeks for the club - stay up and remain steady is the best way forward and probably the only way forward.

The main consolation is that there are an awful lot of outfits around who would like to be in that position.

[/quote

I suggest that selling RSQ may not be that guarrenteed at the moment because of his injury problems - It is a pity nothing could be arranged for Rovers supporters and the Jack Walker trust to get together and talk about Rovers. i.e from both the supporters and the trustees view point. Even though Rovers have got a lot to be thankful for with regards to the trustees, the latter remain faceless. There dosent seem to be anyone of them willing to come forward and talk to the supporters.

I also do not believe that there will be a takeover for quite awhile - even without a credit crunch. Only when there is success on the field and Rovers are in the top four season in seaon out will anybody take notice of Rovers and consider buying the club.

All the other clubs that have been taken over were already successful clubs in the top four - maybe Villa being the acception - but Villas location and size of the local area, hence potential would have helped them being takenover.

Sadly the Walker trust do not seem to understand that they need to invest in the playing squad for Rovers to get into the top four and then make the selling of the club a lot more easier.

[modes98]

but it would be throwing money away. No business person with any sense would touch us.

There are only a couple of clubs that it would make sense to take over from a business point of view.

I suggest that selling RSQ may not be that guarrenteed at the moment because of his injury problems -

Exactly what I said in January. I doubt that level of cash will come again and it could have helped bring in the players we need. It's difficult to see the Trust being able to grant Sam a big budget ever.

[RevidgeBlue]

If the trustees get off the pot now, we really will be in the sh!t without them and no mistake.

Why?

They have decided they don't want to put any more money into the Club, and that is seemingly their prerogative. (Even though it isn't their money and I can't see how they are acting in accordance with Jack's wishes.)

How is that helping us? (Unless you're such a fan of Toogs you want to see him still rolling out for us when he's 45.)

The only way on that basis in which their continued association with the Club would be beneficial is IF they were to bail us out were we to go down again.

And given the lack of a proactive response in January when we were in real danger of going down I'd say that would be highly doubtful

[Al]

Why?

They have decided they don't want to put any more money into the Club, and that is seemingly their prerogative. (Even though it isn't their money and I can't see how they are acting in accordance with Jack's wishes.)

How is that helping us? (Unless you're such a fan of Toogs you want to see him still rolling out for us when he's 45.)

The only way on that basis in which their continued association with the Club would be beneficial is IF they were to bail us out were we to go down again.

And given the lack of a proactive response in January when we were in real danger of going down I'd say that would be highly doubtful

It's a great pity that the supporters can't get a look at Jack's will. That would answer a lot of questions about the powers of the trustees who obvously don't have the best interests of Rovers in their minds.

[Guest Vinjay606]

This trust controls the entire Walker fortune as far as I know not just Jack's half. People keep saying the trust have full authority over every financial detail including distribution of payments to the family themselves. Fred Walker should have full access to however much he wants. As far as I'm concerned the Walker family have the real say in funding (Fred Walker in particular) at this club and they refuse to uphold their brother's wishes. There was nothing to suggest in a single quote Jack said that funding would ever have massive restrictions.

I always said though they should sell the club if they don't want it and at least they are trying to do that. Though I can't understand how BRFC fans protested against Bill Fox over funding and do absolutely nothing when we have owners with a fortune Fox never had.

The key is patience and faith and I have both though in the case of the former only to a limited extent.

[Guest Vinjay606]

There is of course the possibility that Jack loved his club so much that he deliberately set conditions that HAD to be met before the club could be sold in the full knowledge and intention that nobody would ever be likely to be found that could or would want to meet those conditions, and therefore virtually guaranteed that Rovers would have to remain under the care of his Trustees for ever. Which is exactly what I would do if I had been in his position.

All you that want to see the club sold for your own selfish gratification are (I hope) doomed to everlasting disappointment.

Well your idea sounds like the most selfish legacy imaginable. Controlling the club potentially for centuries from beyond the grave sounds like the ultimate ego trip.

I have no doubt Jack would leave any options open that could take the club forward. Also if Jack had set conditions ensuring that there would be virtually no chance of a sale why on earth would they bother paying Rothschild?

[philipl]

This trust controls the entire Walker fortune as far as I know not just Jack's half. People keep saying the trust have full authority over every financial detail including distribution of payments to the family themselves. Fred Walker should have full access to however much he wants. As far as I'm concerned the Walker family have the real say in funding (Fred Walker in particular)

There is absolutely nothing to support your supposition. In the nearly nine years since Jack's death there has not been a single utterance from the Trust, Walker family or the club to support this. Please prove me wrong with evidence as opposed to supposition

at this club and they refuse to uphold their brother's wishes. There was nothing to suggest in a single quote Jack said that funding would ever have massive restrictions.

There has not been massive restrictions. In fact until the Sky money leapt by another 35% two and a half years ago, the Trust was at least as generous in annual cash transfers as Jack had been each year 1992-2000 and converted all loans and preference shares into ordinary shares thereby increasing the number of ordinary shares held by 300% over the number held in Jack's time. The thing which has changed is that the amount that "bought" the Premiership in 94/5 now buys Vince Grella and Vince Grella's wages are on their own the same as that Premier Leage winning forward line earned back in 94/5.

I always said though they should sell the club if they don't want it and at least they are trying to do that. Though I can't understand how BRFC fans protested against Bill Fox over funding and do absolutely nothing when we have owners with a fortune Fox never had.

The key is patience and faith and I have both though in the case of the former only to a limited extent.

That's your business but you are seriously off beam even if you have moderated the way in which you express yourself.

[TimmyJimmy]

re - flogging the brand image around the world.

The club went on a global search to put a new name on the shirt after Bet24. That global search led all the way to ... Darwen - and Crown Paints. In the context of the economic downturn it's a bloody good deal as well, but don't underestimate the fact that a local company saw the opportunity as more useful than the global giants you are craving.

Look at West Brom, one of "only 20 similar clubs on the whole planet" as you put it. They haven't even had a shirt sponsor all season. Aston Villa have gone the "Barcelona route" and have a local hospice on theirs. West Ham's went bust and they wore blank shirts for several weeks before dredging up a betting company to spoil the front of their shirt. AIG (on the shirt of the world champions) are mud, Northern Rock means you and I are paying to sponsor Newcastle through our taxes - the list goes on and on. It's not quite as simple as throwing in "trivial starters for ten" and then blaming the JW trust.

Closer to home again - look at our second tier of major sponsors - Walkersteel Blackburn End, WEC Darwen End, Fraser Eagle Stand. All three businesses within 10 miles of Ewood Park - and Fraser Eagle now in administration. Do you think global giants are queuing up to put their name on the Riverside??

re - It's not that tough to make money when you understand how a business really works.

Perhaps that's how the same JW trustees have made such an outstanding job running Flybe. They really do understand how to run a business. Sh!t or get off the pot you say. If the trustees get off the pot now, we really will be in the sh!t without them and no mistake.

A spirited repost Tris/Thenodrog and one which I respect, however that was not the point I was making, I was talking about building Blackburn Rovers into a global brand not trying to attract an existing global brand to be our sponsor.

Brands are only smoke and mirrors after all - they're about image and perception nothing else. It's like a celebrity is a person famous for being famous. It's expensive to build a brand yes but we have all the basics in place. We own the supply ie we are one of only 20 Premier League clubs, competition from the other 19 yes but absolutely no else on the planet because they aren't in the PL. We're televised. We have history. We have a bloody attractive kit (what an asset that is). We've been winners of the PL etc.. Lot's to bull up and push. I'm not knocking us for being a small mill town VJ I'm saying we can transcend it and not be limited by it, the small gates and the rest.

The majority of future cashflows will come from remote fans and viewers not through the Ewood turnstiles so let's do a United and grab some of that money. They understand this stuff well and started their work at around the time WE won the PL. It's paying off big time now. We missed our opportunity then but I don't believe its too late. As far as I can see there is no alternative. If we have no money from the fans and no money from the trustees then exactly how do we survive (answers on a postcard please to Jersey).

I'll do 12 rounds with anyone who thinks I don't love this club and nothing I say is intended to be disloyal or run down the hard workers who are keeping us afloat, but can anyone really see us surviving as a force over the next few seasons without cash.

I'm grateful for what have but if we sit around breathing our own fumes then we are doomed.

Only one body of people can sort this out and that's the Jersey Boys. Give us the backing or pass the baton, get behind us or get out of our way. Sh1t or get off the pot - whichever is your preference.

[JAL]

Selling Rovers would be alot easier if we could fill those empty seats that have appeared in the corner of the Blackburn end, Riverside and Darwen end and the crowd was upbeat and more colourful and positive.

[thenodrog]

This trust controls the entire Walker fortune as far as I know not just Jack's half. People keep saying the trust have full authority over every financial detail including distribution of payments to the family themselves. Fred Walker should have full access to however much he wants. As far as I'm concerned the Walker family have the real say in funding (Fred Walker in particular) at this club and they refuse to uphold their brother's wishes. There was nothing to suggest in a single quote Jack said that funding would ever have massive restrictions.

I always said though they should sell the club if they don't want it and at least they are trying to do that. Though I can't understand how BRFC fans protested against Bill Fox over funding and do absolutely nothing when we have owners with a fortune Fox never had.

The key is patience and faith and I have both though in the case of the former only to a limited extent.

Could you replace that word with a more accurate phrase? 'Chucking good money after bad' would be more accurate than funding imo.

[mellison24]

Selling Rovers would be alot easier if we could fill those empty seats that have appeared in the corner of the Blackburn end, Riverside and Darwen end and the crowd was upbeat and more colourful and positive.

u conveniently forgot the library that is the JW stand. and the corners are easier to see there as well.

[Fife Rover]

Well your idea sounds like the most selfish legacy imaginable. Controlling the club potentially for centuries from beyond the grave sounds like the ultimate ego trip.

I have no doubt Jack would leave any options open that could take the club forward. Also if Jack had set conditions ensuring that there would be virtually no chance of a sale why on earth would they bother paying Rothschild?

The way that so-called "top class football" is going ,and as more and more greed rules the roost, will guarantee that the Premier Leagues will not last even as far as the middle of this century before the whole rotten greedy business comes crashing down. I am just sorry that I will not be around to see it.

[JAL]

u conveniently forgot the library that is the JW stand. and the corners are easier to see there as well.

The cameras tend not to focus on the JW stand, so the millions watching probably dont know it even exists whereas the other stands are highly visible and give off an image, this for me is something that needs seriously looking at along with the provision for smokers somewhere in every section of the ground.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I really don't know why there is still debate about the Trust. The Chairman expicitly states in the latest accounts that the Trustees don't want to put any more money in and the best thing for all concerned is a quick sale of the club.

Even without such a clear statement, without a single utterance sfrom Jersey since just after Jack's death, we can only judge their future intent by their recent actions, which have been to withdraw funding, put us up for sale and not support the new manager with funds when we were 5 points adrift at Xmas.

Stop living in the past folks; they don't want us, will not be funding Sam's shopping list and will not be taking us off the market until they finally drop their shorts on the price to something some egomaniac wants to pay.

[Guest Vinjay606]

Talksport just announced Queens Park Rangers have sacked their manager apparently for revealing sensitive information of internal club matters.

Queens Park Rangers Football Club has today (Thursday) had to terminate Paulo De Sousa's employment with the Club with immediate effect.

"It came to the Club's attention that Mr De Sousa had, without authority, divulged highly confidential and sensitive information. The Club, with legal advice, responded in this way to protect its position."

Couldn't find anywhere else to put it (QPR takeover relatively recent) and not really worthy of a thread of it's own. Talksport are referring to them as the world's richest club presumably forgetting Manchester City's buyout.

Vital football article claims Paul Ince is amongst the leading candidates.

Can't believe QPR fans are attacking their owners on 606 over some nobody manager getting sacked. They should be grateful Flavio and co saved their club and total abuse is the thanks they get.

[Guest Vinjay606]

Apparently Sousa was asked why he loaned a striker to another club. He blamed the board and wasn't happy about it.

QPR are apparently using this as an excuse though I can't see why they need one. They saved the club the fans should really respect what's best for them. Rangers fans moan about stability at least they have a football club.

[American]

The manager is crap, so maybe I'll see a more entertaining match on Monday than I saw last time I went. I don't care if you're playing Reading at home, you don't play for the 0-0 draw.

Williams spoke to the sale issue when the London branch was at the West Ham match and basically said that they are trying to sell, that they get a lot of inquiries, but use Rothschilds to filter out the unrealistic ones (most of them*), that there hadn't been any interest as of late with the economic downturn and that the small catchment area and fan base doesn't make us a very attractive buy to - pretty much all stuff that makes sense.

(* he said that pretty much he could spend his day talking to "interested" parties, but few of them actually have the resources to buy and sustain the club. Rothschilds makes sure he doesn't waste his time talking to those who can't realistically afford the club. My take - If Dan Williams got past the screening, then he probably had more resources than people give him credit for and a pretty good business plan.)

Edit - if you want to know how "unattractive" (for lack of a better word) of a club we are - I was talking to a couple of Londoners and told them I'd give them 5 guesses for who I supported and give them a tenner each if they guessed it. After the five guesses, which included Accrington Stanley, they gave up and I told them Blackburn Rovers. They said I could have given them 20 guesses and they wouldn't have gotten it.

[Guest Vinjay606]

The manager is crap, so maybe I'll see a more entertaining match on Monday than I saw last time I went. I don't care if you're playing Reading at home, you don't play for the 0-0 draw.

Williams spoke to the sale issue when the London branch was at the West Ham match and basically said that they are trying to sell, that they get a lot of inquiries, but use Rothschilds to filter out the unrealistic ones (most of them*), that there hadn't been any interest as of late with the economic downturn and that the small catchment area and fan base doesn't make us a very attractive buy to - pretty much all stuff that makes sense.

(* he said that pretty much he could spend his day talking to "interested" parties, but few of them actually have the resources to buy and sustain the club. Rothschilds makes sure he doesn't waste his time talking to those who can't realistically afford the club. My take - If Dan Williams got past the screening, then he probably had more resources than people give him credit for and a pretty good business plan.)

All of Lancashire should be looked at as a potential catchment area by any buyers. For Blackburn Rovers that is not Lancashire Utd.

Dan Williams also had the support of Walter Hubert so that probably opened a few doors for him too.

[American]

With the large number of top flight teams in a small area that makes it difficult to make all of Lancashire a potential catchment area.

[Fraserkirky]

All of Lancashire should be looked at as a potential catchment area by any buyers. For Blackburn Rovers that is not Lancashire Utd.

Dan Williams also had the support of Walter Hubert so that probably opened a few doors for him too.

I have a scarf from back in the day that had - "Lancashire's premiership team" on it. I have absolutely no affiliatiation to the town of Blackburn, but having moved to lancs in 1993 (from Scotland), I supported the best team in the area, although there was also Scottish ties back then.

I agree it should be the whole of Lancs not just B'burn town being looked at as a catchment area.

In my opinion we need to market Blackburn Rovers FC in the USA, the premiership is massive over here, with 5-6 games on live every weekend. Affiliation with a major American sports team might work, signing a bunch of americans might work, Pre-seasons over here every year targeting a different area each year. May also help to get a buyer as well since thats all the rage now that sports teams over here want a EPL. I dont know maybe market China as well.