[Archived] Rovers Takeover Thread

[Steve Moss]

  Fraserkirky said:

I have a scarf from back in the day that had - "Lancashire's premiership team" on it. I have absolutely no affiliatiation to the town of Blackburn, but having moved to lancs in 1993 (from Scotland), I supported the best team in the area, although there was also Scottish ties back then.

I agree it should be the whole of Lancs not just B'burn town being looked at as a catchment area.

In my opinion we need to market Blackburn Rovers FC in the USA, the premiership is massive over here, with 5-6 games on live every weekend. Affiliation with a major American sports team might work, signing a bunch of americans might work, Pre-seasons over here every year targeting a different area each year. May also help to get a buyer as well since thats all the rage now that sports teams over here want a EPL. I dont know maybe market China as well.

This is purely anecdotal, but in my small, dusty Arizona town, the 12 or so people I know who watch European soccer (including me), have split loyalties. I like Blackburn as my ancestors allegedly came from Lancashire to America in the 1630s and, of all the Lancashire clubs, it seems the scrappiest. It didn't hurt that Brad Friedel (of the USA) was on the team. A friend of mine likes Newcastle cause he saw a movie about an American joining the team. 3-4 seem to like Fulham as there were so many Americans on the team last year. The rest split their loyalties between Italian and Spanish teams.

Soccer is growing in popularity in the USA. American football, I think, is on the wane though it will be decades before it is noticeable. Pop Warner (kiddie football) has a few hundred participants, locally. AYSO soccer has over a 1,000. Our high school soccer teams are drawing bigger crowds than football.

[American]

You could say the same thing about Soccer vs Football participation when I was a kid in the 80s. Soccer has for a long time been the most played sport among kids in the US. I do agree that the game is gaining in popularity, but it is still a niche sport to watch. The only thing that will make it more popular is the growing Latin population, but they won't be following the Premier League.

[den]

  Exiled in Toronto said:

I really don't know why there is still debate about the Trust. The Chairman expicitly states in the latest accounts that the Trustees don't want to put any more money in and the best thing for all concerned is a quick sale of the club.

Even without such a clear statement, without a single utterance sfrom Jersey since just after Jack's death, we can only judge their future intent by their recent actions, which have been to withdraw funding, put us up for sale and not support the new manager with funds when we were 5 points adrift at Xmas.

Sums the position up in a nutshell. I can't see how it's good for the club to be owned by people who don't want to own us. We don't at present have any options, but it still remains that the club can't possibly go any other way but downwards, while the current situation prevails.

Whichever way the trustees translate the terms of Jack's wishes, I'm certain he wouldn't have wanted this.

[dave birch]

Could be Den, but on the other hand, they may well be testing Jack's original intention; that the club stand on it's own.

I think that I'd be right that that is what he always intended.

[den]

  dave birch said:

Could be Den, but on the other hand, they may well be testing Jack's original intention; that the club stand on it's own.

I think that I'd be right that that is what he always intended.

Yes it was Dave. I don't think he would have wanted the current situation - where we are in limbo and going in one direction only.

My instinct tells me that he would have required the trustees to continue with the investment until a sale was completed.

[tashor]

  Fraserkirky said:

I have a scarf from back in the day that had - "Lancashire's premiership team" on it. I have absolutely no affiliatiation to the town of Blackburn, but having moved to lancs in 1993 (from Scotland), I supported the best team in the area, although there was also Scottish ties back then.

I agree it should be the whole of Lancs not just B'burn town being looked at as a catchment area.

In my opinion we need to market Blackburn Rovers FC in the USA, the premiership is massive over here, with 5-6 games on live every weekend. Affiliation with a major American sports team might work, signing a bunch of americans might work, Pre-seasons over here every year targeting a different area each year. May also help to get a buyer as well since thats all the rage now that sports teams over here want a EPL. I dont know maybe market China as well.

This aways was the point - the club and too many supporters have been missing a trick. Lancashire is and always has been the greatest county on earth. Football as we know it today was first played in Lancashire. Lancashire is the Red Rose County. Rovers are Lancashire's greatest team. We are (or at least shoiuld be) the Pride of Lancashire. It's all about branding - but how easy is that - we should be a marketing dream. Gritty working class heroes. Small town against the faceless big city media darling's wet dreams. Samba/Warnock/Nelsen v Ronaldo/Cole/Robino .... salt of the earth hacker v show boating prima donna.

It NEVER was about the @#/?ised creation "Lancashire Rovers" - everything dies with that vulgar absurdity. The only question - is it better late than never? Only one way to find out - FIGHT .................or whimper into lower league obscurity.

[RevidgeBlue]

  dave birch said:

Could be Den, but on the other hand, they may well be testing Jack's original intention; that the club stand on it's own.

I think that I'd be right that that is what he always intended.

Dave, I think you're right that Jack always wanted the Club to eventually wash it's own face on a day to day trading basis - which is what we're doing now and then some thanks to the TV revenue.

My opinion is that he would have envisaged the Trust coming up with an "Andy Cole" from time to time rather than the Trust providing no support at all - otherwise, what's the point of setting it up?

Granted "Andy Cole's" cost a lot more now than they once did but we haven't even spent 5m on a player in a long time - which is a relatively modest sum by Premiership standards these days.

[BiggusLaddus]

  tashor said:

This aways was the point - the club and too many supporters have been missing a trick. Lancashire is and always has been the greatest county on earth. Football as we know it today was first played in Lancashire. Lancashire is the Red Rose County. Rovers are Lancashire's greatest team. We are (or at least shoiuld be) the Pride of Lancashire

Going to be difficult while there are two other Lancashire teams higher in the league than us, or even six if you consider the historic county boundaries.

[thenodrog]

  den said:

Yes it was Dave. I don't think he would have wanted the current situation - where we are in limbo and going in one direction only.

My instinct tells me that he would have required the trustees to continue with the investment until a sale was completed.

Invesment–noun 1. the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

[thenodrog]

  BiggusLaddus said:

Going to be difficult while there are two other Lancashire teams higher in the league than us, or even six if you consider the historic county boundaries.

No there aren't. Wigan and Bolton are both part of Greater Manchester I think.

[thenodrog]

  RevidgeBlue said:

Dave, I think you're right that Jack always wanted the Club to eventually wash it's own face on a day to day trading basis - which is what we're doing now and then some thanks to the TV revenue.

My opinion is that he would have envisaged the Trust coming up with an "Andy Cole" from time to time rather than the Trust providing no support at all - otherwise, what's the point of setting it up?

Granted "Andy Cole's" cost a lot more now than they once did but we haven't even spent 5m on a player in a long time - which is a relatively modest sum by Premiership standards these days.

I'm not sure about that Simon. We saw in the late 90's how a succession of poor managers wasted millions of JW's money simply cos it was readily available in order to attempt to cover their own managerial inadequacies. That is NOT the way forward.

1. I can see little point in paying transfer fees. They simply equate to a write off at the end of a players contract.

2. I'd assume Jack Walker would not have wanted the trust to turn up with a Cole from time to time as much as the club turning up with a Bentley / RSC / Warcock once a season. That is the right and healthy way forward.

3. imo the club should wash it's face as it was doing under Hughes. The trust should only act as a safety net. A steady hand on the tiller.

[den]

  thenodrog said:

Invesment–noun 1. the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

Yep. - and what will value be in the Championship?

[CrazyIvan]

  thenodrog said:

... Warcock ...

Freudian slip?

[thenodrog]

  den said:

Yep. - and what will value be in the Championship?

The unspent millions will still be the same value or thereabouts in the Walker vaults.

Basically Den I'm tired of listening to children of the nanny state holding their hands out in everlasting expectation. 'Bonfire' economics where the more that is thrown on the fire the more is consumed at ever greater speeds is not an option.

Disagree if you want but it's looking like David Brown and Fred Walker share opinions more aligned with mine than with yours.

[den]

  thenodrog said:

The unspent millions will still be the same value or thereabouts in the Walker vaults.

Basically Den I'm tired of listening to children of the nanny state holding their hands out in everlasting expectation. 'Bonfire' economics where the more that is thrown on the fire the more is consumed at ever greater speeds is not an option.

Disagree if you want but it's looking like David Brown and Fred Walker share opinions more aligned with mine than with yours.

I doubt there is a disagreement Gord.

As afr as I'm concerned the trustees should simply carry out Jack's wishes - no more, no less. The current problem I have with this, is that I doubt very much that JW intended the trustees to leave the club in this limbo, whereby they aren't supporting the club, haven't put the club in a position where it can wash it's own face - nor have they found a buyer. Yes, I'm sure JW intended the club to stand on it's own two feet, but not just to abandon it.

[Exiled in Toronto]

  thenodrog said:

Invesment–noun 1. the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

I think you are missing the qualifier of 'versus do nothing'. A spend that increases the value beyond the sum of the do nothing option and the spend is an investment.

I don't know where people get the notion that the only motivation in buying a club is to actually make money. Most rich people I have come across make money in some areas of their dealings and spend it in others. A football club would be in the spend category along with large yachts, Bentleys and the like. I very much doubt that Dave Whelan funded Wigan's rise to make money

Whether any of these people would want to buy us is, of course, questionable, but what is clear is that the rich people who (indirectly) own us obviously get no pleasure whatsoever from spending on the club and would rather spend their play money on something else.

[RevidgeBlue]

  thenodrog said:

2. I'd assume Jack Walker would not have wanted the trust to turn up with a Cole from time to time as much as the club turning up with a Bentley / RSC / Warcock once a season. That is the right and healthy way forward.

Yes but even adding "A Bentley/RSC/Warnock" requires 3-5m p.a. which by and large was a level of funding denied to Hughes and also seems to be 3-5m more than the Trustees are prepared to put in currently.

[Boz]

When we are talking/comparing transfer costs, might it be wiser these days to include the contracted salary in with any actual headline transfer fee?

E.g. Vince Grella - transfer fee paid to club holding his contract £4m, plus a four year contract paid to Mr Grella of £2.5m, equals a total transfer fee of £14m

Bearing in mind players wages these days it makes a mockery of £5m transfer fees

[RevidgeBlue]

  Boz said:

When we are talking/comparing transfer costs, might it be wiser these days to include the contracted salary in with any actual headline transfer fee?

E.g. Vince Grella - transfer fee paid to club holding his contract £4m, plus a four year contract paid to Mr Grella of £2.5m, equals a total transfer fee of £14m

Bearing in mind players wages these days it makes a mockery of £5m transfer fees

Who says Grella is on anything remotely approaching 50k p.w?

Point taken though.

[thenodrog]

  den said:

I doubt there is a disagreement Gord.

As afr as I'm concerned the trustees should simply carry out Jack's wishes - no more, no less. The current problem I have with this, is that I doubt very much that JW intended the trustees to leave the club in this limbo, whereby they aren't supporting the club, haven't put the club in a position where it can wash it's own face - nor have they found a buyer. Yes, I'm sure JW intended the club to stand on it's own two feet, but not just to abandon it.

Don't forget the trust would have been set up by Jack and Fred. Jack as far as I understand was the only one really passionate about football in virtually the entire family.

[Guest Vinjay606]

Fred Walker is the reason I have always maintained the Walker family have full authority over the level of spending. Are people saying he is limited to trust handouts and dosen't have unlimited access to his own fortune? If Fred Walker wanted to spend 350 million on a yacht tomorrow he could do so if he wished and the trust couldn't do a damn thing about it.

Until Fred Walker dies (if a takeover hasn't happened before then) I will not accept the family have no say over the level of funding.

[JAL]

I cant help but think with the club looking for fresh investment but none forthcoming, plus the lack of development coming through from the academy and a rising wage bill coupled with a declining crowd, IS John Williams and the board really doing their job properly, this question keeps revolving in my head have they run out of ideas and enthusiasm to do the job.

[Parsonblue]

  Vinjay606 said:

Fred Walker is the reason I have always maintained the Walker family have full authority over the level of spending. Are people saying he is limited to trust handouts and dosen't have unlimited access to his own fortune? If Fred Walker wanted to spend 350 million on a yacht tomorrow he could do so if he wished and the trust couldn't do a damn thing about it.

Until Fred Walker dies (if a takeover hasn't happened before then) I will not accept the family have no say over the level of funding.

But you are missing the point Vinjay. It was Jack who was passionate about Blackburn Rovers. Fred, I assume, has other interests which he is passionate about. If Fred wants to spend his money on the things that interest him that is entirely up to him. You seem to be accusing Fred of not spending his own money in a way that you want. Jack, as far as I am aware, was the only member of the family to be really passionate about the club. Ultimately, in the present climate, it's only someone who allows his heart to rule his head who will pour money into Blackburn Rovers without hope of a return. That is why I believe that a takeover is highly unlikely in the near future.

[den]

  thenodrog said:

Don't forget the trust would have been set up by Jack and Fred. Jack as far as I understand was the only one really passionate about football in virtually the entire family.

I might have missed a post or two in this thread, - but what did Fred have to do with the Jersey trust?

[Guest Vinjay606]

I will accuse him of not influencing authority over the trust in the way Jack would have wanted.

I only mentioned this in response to the Fred Walker remark further up the page. I'm trying my best to discuss the takeover (rather than current owner policies) but I had to respond to the mention of his name. The difference between now and 2005 is that there is an evident, clear effort to sell the club. Back then it was like the club was being held hostage (hence why I reacted so badly) and now there is at least some hope.