[Archived] Rovers Takeover Thread

[Blue n White Rover]

I will accuse him of not influencing authority over the trust in the way Jack would have wanted.

I only mentioned this in response to the Fred Walker remark further up the page. I'm trying my best to discuss the takeover (rather than current owner policies) but I had to respond to the mention of his name. The difference between now and 2005 is that there is an evident, clear effort to sell the club. Back then it was like the club was being held hostage (hence why I reacted so badly) and now there is at least some hope.

What hope is this. As far as I am concerned, no-one is going to buy us, simply because we are not a profitable club. Everyone has said it time and time again, unless we find another Uncle Jack, we will always be a selling club. There are no two ways about it, there is no hope.

Unless you can enlight us all Vinjay?

[bubblerrovers]

What hope is this. As far as I am concerned, no-one is going to buy us, simply because we are not a profitable club. Everyone has said it time and time again, unless we find another Uncle Jack, we will always be a selling club. There are no two ways about it, there is no hope.

Unless you can enlight us all Vinjay?

Your so right i feel there is no point to this thread, it may as well be a will rovers qualify for champions league or rovers sign Kaka thread

[dave birch]

I will accuse him of not influencing authority over the trust in the way Jack would have wanted.

I only mentioned this in response to the Fred Walker remark further up the page. I'm trying my best to discuss the takeover (rather than current owner policies) but I had to respond to the mention of his name. The difference between now and 2005 is that there is an evident, clear effort to sell the club. Back then it was like the club was being held hostage (hence why I reacted so badly) and now there is at least some hope.

Sorry, Vinjay. The trust will have it's directions laid out by the person(s) setting it up. The trustees must abide by that.

If anyone is to "blame" (for lack of a better word) for the lack of investment, it's the person(s) that set the trust up, for (1) not being explicit enough, or (2) making a deliberate decision to go down this track.

You have to realise that in the Rovers, the trust has an asset. They won't want to deliberately devalue that asset, would they? What is happening now may well be part of a larger strategy, we just don't know.

All of the discussion about the takeover is valid as it pertains to the trust, the sale, and current investment they are so closely linked as it affects the value of the asset.

[Guest Vinjay606]

It's like Exiled said not every owner is motivated by profit.

[dave birch]

Vinjay, you said, "I will accuse him of not influencing authority over the trust in the way Jack would have wanted."

No one can influence authority over a trust. Jacks will was being done by the trust. The trust deed was set up by him, it was his decision, full stop.

[Guest Vinjay606]

If the trust includes Fred Walker's share of the money then he has a say over it.

[dave birch]

If the trust includes Fred Walker's share of the money then he has a say over it.

No, if, and that's "If", it contains his "Money" then it's up to the trustees, not Fred, not Jack's rellos, not the milkman, but the (and read this carefully), "The Trustees"! No one else but them. They have to abide by the directions set down. If they don't and are found to have contravened the deed of trust then they may have some explaining to do.

[Guest Vinjay606]

Saw something today about Arsenal looking to extend Wenger's contract while takeover battles remain in the background. Even with a takeover there whoever the new owner is they would be quite insane not to retain his services.

As far as I know the trust contains the entire Walker fortune not just Jack's share. Why would Fred Walker agree to anything that didn't give him unlimited access to the money he (and Jack) earned?

[Guest Vinjay606]

Today has been quite painful but nothing compared to one day in August 2003.

Abramovich of course had bought Chelsea recently and early in the morning I turned on ceefax. The BBC had a headline about Alexander Mamut purchasing BRFC (one of Roman's friends briefly linked to a purchase here) and as it appeared to be their story I initially believed it. If I recall correctly it came from the Express newspaper. I've never felt as miserable as I did when it became clear the club hadn't been contacted. That summer hadn't look too bad either despite Duff going and the Ferguson/Emerton signings which both excited me.

Having my hopes dashed that cruelly though is probably what brought me to my 2005/2006 lowpoint as a supporter. If Mamut had considered a bid in 2003 Rothschild should have been appointed long before 2007.

I'm just wondering (and perhaps A.Nixon would know) is there anything to suggest Mamut considered a bid? I don't think he made contact with the club but where exactly did that story come from? Who gave it to the Express?

[The1mattjansen]

Give it a rest old boy. Its petulent in the extreme to keep throwing your opinions around as though you deserve somebody to put a few hundered millions of pounds up to keep you happy.

It won´t happen, but we´re not doing such a bad job as it is and Big Sam will see us right for another few years now.

[Guest Vinjay606]

It's what Jack Walker deserves as a reward for the legacy he's built here. A takeover is the number 1 issue at this club and I make no apology for that view.

You can say it won't happen but I anticipate the day when you will have to eat those words. I almost said regret them but I would hope you wouldn't be that pathetic should you ever be proven wrong.

It is a takeover thread anyway so I'm entitled to discuss it here. Ignoring the issue isn't going to increase the chances of bringing new owners in is it?

[The1mattjansen]

As far as the premier league is concerned, we are now almost certainely the least attractive club within it. We have an awful location geographically, awful fanbase economically and despite having relatively decent facilities, these are no longer that superior to many championship teams.

Given that we are now hanging on to Premier League survival by the skin of our teeth, the only reason anyone would possibly want to invest in Rovers would be A ) a long term fan ala Jack (I think its a bit late in the day for that) or B ) to asset strip the club and turn a profit. Which is hardly ideal.

Stop dreaming of a far fetched fantasy to compete with your Man United and Liverpool buddies and be proud of what you have, a club punching well above its weight in the strongest league in the world and doing a very fine job.

[Guest Vinjay606]

I am proud of what I have (at least I never belittle the club like some on here) and what Jack Walker has built here. A club that is competing exactly where it belongs but needs a takeover to take it forward. Discussing a takeover is worth more time than calling for a change in policy from the current owners as some have on here. I have accepted that is not going to happen and am pleased that by appointing Rothschild there is a clear effort to sell. That was not the case in 2005.

The club would not bother paying Rothschild if they thought there was no chance of a sale.

As for that comment about competing with my Man United "buddies" I would never befriend anyone who supports them.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

:!:

As far as the premier league is concerned, we are now almost certainely the least attractive club within it. We have an awful location geographically, awful fanbase economically and despite having relatively decent facilities, these are no longer that superior to many championship teams.

Given that we are now hanging on to Premier League survival by the skin of our teeth, the only reason anyone would possibly want to invest in Rovers would be A ) a long term fan ala Jack (I think its a bit late in the day for that) or B ) to asset strip the club and turn a profit. Which is hardly ideal.

Stop dreaming of a far fetched fantasy to compete with your Man United and Liverpool buddies and be proud of what you have, a club punching well above its weight in the strongest league in the world and doing a very fine job.

I think your post is a tad unfair on Rovers. Whilst we are never going to be at the front of the queue; in terms of finding potential owners- I do not believe we are the least desirable club currently playing in the Premiership

Surely our great heritage, history and the fact that we are only one of four clubs who have won the Premiership must count for something? IMO we are and always have been a more attractive option than the likes of Wigan, Bolton & Middleborough.

The training complex, coupled with the clubs housing portfolio in the Ribble Valley also adds value to the club. These were reportedly the reasons why the Walkers were asking for such a hefty asking price when potential buyers came calling.

[nicko]

I'm just wondering (and perhaps A.Nixon would know) is there anything to suggest Mamut considered a bid? I don't think he made contact with the club but where exactly did that story come from? Who gave it to the Express?

From what I remember it was an idea floating about from an agent - Zahavi I think - who had just done the Abramovich deal.

I think Souey was aware of the possibility because he knows Zahavi...but I don't think it ever moved forward.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Given that we are now hanging on to Premier League survival by the skin of our teeth, the only reason anyone would possibly want to invest in Rovers would be A ) a long term fan ala Jack (I think its a bit late in the day for that) or B ) to asset strip the club and turn a profit. Which is hardly ideal.

Incorrect. Most of the people who have got rich out of owning football clubs - and there are quite a few - have done so through increases in the capital value, i.e. they sold it for a lot more than they paid for it. Martin Edwards, the Irish racing punters, John Hall, the bloke at West Ham who sold to the Eggheads, the Arsenal shareholders who sold to that fat Ruskie all did extremely well via that route. If the overseas rights were to keep on going up exponentially, or pay per view really took off then there would be people willing to pay for clubs, thinking they could control wages and make pots of money.

Apart from the top 4, the cashflows in football clubs aren't that much really as most just comes in the front door and out the back into the players pockets.

Most clubs historically would spend any profits on players so they didn't have to pay corporation tax and hence 'lose' 30% of their potential transfer budget.

[Fife Rover]

No, if, and that's "If", it contains his "Money" then it's up to the trustees, not Fred, not Jack's rellos, not the milkman, but the (and read this carefully), "The Trustees"! No one else but them. They have to abide by the directions set down. If they don't and are found to have contravened the deed of trust then they may have some explaining to do.

I agree with what you are saying there Dave, but my problem is: How does anyone know what the trust deed says? Surely there has to be some legal protection that allows some relevant interested party to be able to see what the requirements in the deed actually specify, and thereby be able to make a thorough check on the way that the trust deed is being adhered to? Can anyone who is knowledgeable in the area of trust deeds confirm /deny this?

[dave birch]

Fife, Have a look at this site, it may go some way to explaining things.

http://www.century.gg/trust_formation.html

Here is a brief guide to trusts in Jersey:

http://www.key-trust.com/_documents/services/tij.pdf

Take note of "The duties of the Trustee(s)"

[TimmyJimmy]

What all this goes to show is that unfortunately Jack was wrong, you can't run a club (or anything else) by committee. Williams is effectively the 'owner' and he's doing a great job IMO but he doesn't have that essential component of a true owner and that access is to funds. If the Jersey Boys say no then the answer is no, the end.

We are though lumbered with this model. The owners don't want us, we don't want them (if they don't cherish the club like we do or want to develop us financially), yet they can't sell us and we can't walk. We're locked in this deadly embrace and everyone's unhappy. There is only one solution that I can think off and that's to develop the club for the modern world ie TV, a global following and branding. Given who we are (one of the 20), the history of the club (what a film that would make - wonder who'd play Jack and Kenny), the bad boy image, the strip, the badge and the motto (with SKILL and ENDEAVOUR) the fact that by all the laws of nature and modern finance we shouldn't be here at all, we're a brand managers DREAM. In fact in that context being a small mill town with few supporters turns out to be an advantage, we shouldn't be as great as we are but we are! If they couldn't build that one it's time to get back to Lynx and spotty kids.

We are where we are with this situation and there's not a lot us supporters can do. But if it continues this way we know where it's going to end. I'm not angry with anyone and don't want to insult the Walker family or Trust so I'd better drop the moniker Jersey Boys I suppose but everyone has to realise that this is not a viable business model and surely even a disinterested family wouldn't want to trash Jack's dream. Time to move on somehow and holding out for top dollar might not be the best way to do it. In the interim, Mr Williams please beg the Trustees to lash out a few million not on players (because they won't) but on a branding budget, engage the best, throw some cash at it then the Trustees get their money back from a higher sale price and we get our club back.

[Guest Vinjay606]

This "small" town" thing is not accurate. Only big towns are eligible for city challenge which Blackburn has entered.

[47er]

This really is the most pointless thread. There is no takeover in the wind so why keep writing about it? The only kind of person I see taking over our club is another Jack and we know how long we had to wait for the last one. Lets get this thread going again in about 50 years time. More important for fans to embarass the current owners into backing the club they own.

[Guest Vinjay606]

It is not pointless at all. I doubt any level of protests will change the owners policy though it might put even more pressure on them to find a buyer. I personally won't be satisfied until the whole world knows this club is for sale. This issue has been neglected when it is by far the more vital issue in the long term. A takeover could be the key to how the next 20 years play out.

Once again why would the club bother paying Rothschild if there was no chance of finding new owners?

How do you know for sure there are no takeover talks? Until someone like Nixon hears something we don't know what is happening behind closed doors.

[47er]

It is not pointless at all. I doubt any level of protests will change the owners policy though it might put even more pressure on them to find a buyer. I personally won't be satisfied until the whole world knows this club is for sale. This issue has been neglected when it is by far the more vital issue in the long term. A takeover could be the key to how the next 20 years play out.

Once again why would the club bother paying Rothschild if there was no chance of finding new owners?

How do you know for sure there are no takeover talks? Until someone like Nixon hears something we don't know what is happening behind closed doors.

If its any consolation, if the whole world doesn't know already, its no fault of your's!

[TimmyJimmy]

This really is the most pointless thread. There is no takeover in the wind so why keep writing about it? The only kind of person I see taking over our club is another Jack and we know how long we had to wait for the last one. Lets get this thread going again in about 50 years time. More important for fans to embarass the current owners into backing the club they own.

Don't know if you're referring to my post/s, if so then I think you'll find that I'm not pushing for a sale, simply because there are no buyers out there at 60+ million, so you're right it's a pointless discussion to that extent. The point is though that more of the same will kill the club's ability to survive at this level of football. So what to do other than sit on our hands and moan. Only three options leap to mind :

1) do nowt - we die slowly

2) hope the trustees reduce the asking price - zero chance

3) the club gets a massive re-branding budget and generates a following large enough to put cash in the coffers.

Can't think of anything else can you? Which of the three options do you support or do you have a 4th? I've always thought its easiest to sit in the background and take potshots but actually coming up with something positive is the harder thing. The thread isn't pointless if it's read by people who care for the club and want to contribute whatever intellectual capital they might have to help out. It may be the wrong thread for you, so don't read it, go join the moaning majority and hope the cavalry come charging over the hill. For people like me who think it's good to sound out ideas that could help the club then it's a good thread. Blackburn Rovers is an idea that seems to be universally panned by the members on here but whether its good or bad at least someone is getting off their arse and trying to come up with some genuine ideas. I think the term for those people is SUPPORTERS.

[TimmyJimmy]

Don't know if you're referring to my post/s, if so then I think you'll find that I'm not pushing for a sale, simply because there are no buyers out there at 60+ million, so you're right it's a pointless discussion to that extent. The point is though that more of the same will kill the club's ability to survive at this level of football. So what to do other than sit on our hands and moan. Only three options leap to mind :

1) do nowt - we die slowly

2) hope the trustees reduce the asking price - zero chance

3) the club gets a massive re-branding budget and generates a following large enough to put cash in the coffers.

Can't think of anything else can you? Which of the three options do you support or do you have a 4th? I've always thought its easiest to sit in the background and take potshots but actually coming up with something positive is the harder thing. The thread isn't pointless if it's read by people who care for the club and want to contribute whatever intellectual capital they might have to help out. It may be the wrong thread for you, so don't read it, go join the moaning majority and hope the cavalry come charging over the hill. For people like me who think it's good to sound out ideas that could help the club then it's a good thread. Blackburn Rovers is an idea that seems to be universally panned by the members on here but whether its good or bad at least someone is getting off their arse and trying to come up with some genuine ideas. I think the term for those people is SUPPORTERS.

The Blackburn Rovers bit above should have read L a n c a s h i r e U n i t e d but I couldn't see what I was writing through the red mist! Actually trying to post that name without the spaces in it automatically get rewritten as Blackburn Rovers - what's going on, have I got a virus or is there a macro on the board. Gord is this your doing?