[Archived] Rovers Takeover Thread

[Guest Vinjay606]

Try and think positively about it. I need some positive scenario visions to keep my hopes up.

[RovertheHill]

I know. And we all want to think positively about it, because the alternative, is a slow and painful death a la Southampton/Charlton. But face facts - at least as many takeovers turn out to be disasters as successes. Unfortunately, I think there is only one Jack Walker....

[Guest Vinjay606]

I accept that it is somewhat unlikely a rich lifelong local purchases the club in the near future. However look at Chelsea, Aston Villa, etc. Manchester City have unlimited backing and sovereign wealth is supposedly the best guarantee in financing. Portsmouth has turned out bad but they actually rejected a bid from someone because they didn't think they had the club's best interests. So even their owners aren't the devil incarnate.

Any experts on here want to back up that sovereign wealth guarantee? Maybe someone like Philipl would know something about that being a self proclaimed financial expert.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I know. And we all want to think positively about it, because the alternative, is a slow and painful death a la Southampton/Charlton. But face facts - at least as many takeovers turn out to be disasters as successes. Unfortunately, I think there is only one Jack Walker....

....And I'm sure we all count our lucky stars that we were around to witness the magic he brought to this club.The current situation really is so sad to see unfolding before our eyes.

Point being I dont think we'll ever see someone like Jack with his love and ambition for the club again.

[Guest Vinjay606]

Ambition maybe but finding someone with the same amount of love may well be impossible.

[RovertheHill]

I accept that it is somewhat unlikely a rich lifelong local purchases the club in the near future. However look at Chelsea, Aston Villa, etc. Manchester City have unlimited backing and sovereign wealth is supposedly the best guarantee in financing. Portsmouth has turned out bad but they actually rejected a bid from someone because they didn't think they had the club's best interests. So even their owners aren't the devil incarnate.

Any experts on here want to back up that sovereign wealth guarantee? Maybe someone like Philipl would know something about that being a self proclaimed financial expert.

The thing is, I think you invest in a football club for one of three reasons

1) The love of the club - like Jack Walker

2) As an investment - the Glasiers, the Villa guy, the Liverpool knobs

3) As a toy/hobby - Abramovich, the Man City lot

I suppose there's a 4th, which is to rehabilitate yourself from being a dictator and human rights violator a la Shiniwatra. Anyways, if we discount 1) on the law of probability that there aren't that many from East Lancashire and we've been lucky once. We can discount 2) - the quickest way to become a millionaire that I can see is to make a billion pounds and then buy Rovers. So that leaves 3). Now there's always a chance of it happening. But let's face facts again. If you have money coming out of your ears and you're looking for a club to buy you'd start at the top and work down. So you'd probably buy Liverpool first. Sad but true - we will be well down the list

[Guest Vinjay606]

Well Liverpool weren't first to be bought out last time. Portsmouth and Aston Villa were both sold before them. Of course with the former going rather badly at present.

With such a majority shareholding this club would probably be an easy, straightforward transaction for someone with the right level of funding. As easy as it gets when it comes to buying a premier league football club at the moment anyway.

[Majiball]

So what is the way to progress then? A miraculous change in policy from the Walkers? Lancashire Utd suggestion one person supports?

A takeover is the only way forward and would happen regardless of my view should the owners get a suitable offer.

OK

1) Sort out the youth complete overhaul new staff, funds given for players.

2) transfer policy no player over 27 to be signed unless considered exceptional

3) start building contacts with strong youth producing teams across the globe

4) structure of club to change chairman to be in complete charge

5) become a selling club for a while.

6) wage structure to change we don't have to pay everyone mega money and younger players always take less

7) Research centre or a link to one, every advantage counts in football

8) Loans start using the system, build links with bigger clubs (abroad) and get the players they sign who aren't quite ready for them

9) Sign an asian player or two

10) Bring in club coaches only one or two but those that are committed to us not just the manager

11) send our younger players out on loan to clubs who have similiar footballing ideals to us

12) bring in specialists, extra trainings IE nutrition and anticipation training

13) become more involved with the community, free soccer school prior to youth training, working with local youth teams.

14) open training sessions most of the time

15) Change the fans from not being involved to being a true part of the club, maybe not quite like spain but along those lines, membership a voice that counts

16) Free admission to everyone under 16, period. Discounts for students.

that'll do for now!!!!!!!! more beer beckons!!!!!!!!!!

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Silencio]

OK

1) Sort out the youth complete overhaul new staff, funds given for players.

2) transfer policy no player over 27 to be signed unless considered exceptional

3) start building contacts with strong youth producing teams across the globe

4) structure of club to change chairman to be in complete charge

5) become a selling club for a while.

6) wage structure to change we don't have to pay everyone mega money and younger players always take less

7) Research centre or a link to one, every advantage counts in football

8) Loans start using the system, build links with bigger clubs (abroad) and get the players they sign who aren't quite ready for them

9) Sign an asian player or two

10) Bring in club coaches only one or two but those that are committed to us not just the manager

11) send our younger players out on loan to clubs who have similiar footballing ideals to us

12) bring in specialists, extra trainings IE nutrition and anticipation training

13) become more involved with the community, free soccer school prior to youth training, working with local youth teams.

14) open training sessions most of the time

15) Change the fans from not being involved to being a true part of the club, maybe not quite like spain but along those lines, membership a voice that counts

16) Free admission to everyone under 16, period. Discounts for students.

that'll do for now!!!!!!!! more beer beckons!!!!!!!!!!

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Some great ideas there. Rovers should look to clubs like Sevilla and Udinese who are structured almost perfectly for small - medium sized clubs. They invest heavily in the scouting and coaching of young players, improve them and then sell them a few years down the line. The key word here is "invest". Our board have got to see that if we structure the club and transfer policy progressively then there will be returns on outlays. At the moment we spend what little we have on players who will not increase in value and offer little to the team.

I find it unbelievable that despite such limited output from Bobby Downes he has been in charge of the Academy for what must be over a decade. Jack Walker's vision for the Academy was fantastic and we would not be struggling so much now if it had been as fruitful as it should have been. Downes must be the man who takes responsibility for this. Did the club postpone their review of the Academy due to our situation this season? An outcome of that review and a reaction to it is needed.

We should start using the loans system for outgoing young players and for incoming youth team players. Allardyce does seem to operate in this area reasonably well although I have doubts about his style of football in the long term. Using incoming loan players each year is not ideal but can benefit us if we continue to borrow good ones each year. This is where good management and scouting comes in...

The idea about club coaches is excellent and I think should extend to the medical and scouting team to enable us to have stability when management changes. This is why teams like Udinese and Sevilla continue to stay at a decent level despite managerial changes and is why we have been such a mess this season.

I applaud the clubs ticketing policies but feel the club could be more visionary in how it links with the town. Middlesborough are excellent in this department. I think these links could have long term benefits to the club and the town in terms of raising interest in the club and youth development. We need to get young people in the town more interested in us than Man Utd or Liverpool and while this is hard, I believe it is possible. The club could invest in sports centres, school facilities and communal football areas. Community coaches could become involved with various schools and we could also organise tournaments. This may help us find players and attract young people to the club. It would cost money but not much compared to Mokoena's weekly wage.

These kind of schemes would probably need an overall director who would be with the club long term. They are not areas that can be of concern to the first team management who come and go every two or three years....

[Guest Vinjay606]

OK

1) Sort out the youth complete overhaul new staff, funds given for players.

2) transfer policy no player over 27 to be signed unless considered exceptional

3) start building contacts with strong youth producing teams across the globe

4) structure of club to change chairman to be in complete charge

5) become a selling club for a while.

6) wage structure to change we don't have to pay everyone mega money and younger players always take less

7) Research centre or a link to one, every advantage counts in football

8) Loans start using the system, build links with bigger clubs (abroad) and get the players they sign who aren't quite ready for them

9) Sign an asian player or two

10) Bring in club coaches only one or two but those that are committed to us not just the manager

11) send our younger players out on loan to clubs who have similiar footballing ideals to us

12) bring in specialists, extra trainings IE nutrition and anticipation training

13) become more involved with the community, free soccer school prior to youth training, working with local youth teams.

14) open training sessions most of the time

15) Change the fans from not being involved to being a true part of the club, maybe not quite like spain but along those lines, membership a voice that counts

16) Free admission to everyone under 16, period. Discounts for students.

that'll do for now!!!!!!!! more beer beckons!!!!!!!!!!

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

1. Who do you expect those funds to come from? The owners?

2. Would need a manager willing to enforce such a policy.

3. Makes sense.

4. He has more or less total control over day to day matters already. Though in consultation with the board and if they don't have any input no point having directors.

5. Rubbish.

6. Not feasible in a premier league climate.

7. Research centres of what type exactly? Technology like prozone is suitable in terms of monitoring player performance.

8. This isn't a feeder club for anybody. The club of course does have a feeder club in Belgium from what I can recall.

9. I'm sure this has occurred to the club. I saw a quote on a BRFC supporters blog that Don Mackay most wanted to sign a young asian from the area. So the club knew this was a relevant issue many years ago.

10. That's the manager's decision.

11. Makes sense.

12. Might have such schemes in operation already. BFS has appointed nutritionists and a lot of his former staff are still employed at Newcastle according to a story in the People newspaper this morning.

13. Always possible to integrate more within the community.

14. No would prefer training to be conducted in private.

15. If the fans change their mentality a bit more towards the "think big" mantra Jack Walker possessed then fine. Otherwise it would just drag the club down.

16. Older fans wouldn't agree. I would support it myself but the majority wouldn't. Also there would have to be certain limits of course.

We need to get young people in the town more interested in us than Man Utd or Liverpool and while this is hard, I believe it is possible.

It would be possible if BRFC fans would encourage absolute dislike of everything associated with Man United. All top 4 clubs are a threat but they are the biggest as the most local. Unfortunately some BRFC fans would rather focus their dislike on clubs that are absolutely zero threat to Ewood support.

[cn174]

I applaud the clubs ticketing policies but feel the club could be more visionary in how it links with the town. Middlesborough are excellent in this department. I think these links could have long term benefits to the club and the town in terms of raising interest in the club and youth development. We need to get young people in the town more interested in us than Man Utd or Liverpool and while this is hard, I believe it is possible. The club could invest in sports centres, school facilities and communal football areas. Community coaches could become involved with various schools and we could also organise tournaments. This may help us find players and attract young people to the club. It would cost money but not much compared to Mokoena's weekly wage.

I think Rovers already do much of this - take a look at the community website http://www.brfctrust.co.uk/site quite a lot goes on.

Trying to persuade kids that they should be Rovers fans is very challenging. My brother did some coaching at Rovers last week and in his group of kids who were all aged 8-12, not a single one was a Rovers fan.

[Majiball]

1. Who do you expect those funds to come from? The owners?

2. Would need a manager willing to enforce such a policy.

3. Makes sense.

4. He has more or less total control over day to day matters already. Though in consultation with the board and if they don't have any input no point having directors.

5. Rubbish.

6. Not feasible in a premier league climate.

7. Research centres of what type exactly? Technology like prozone is suitable in terms of monitoring player performance.

8. This isn't a feeder club for anybody. The club of course does have a feeder club in Belgium from what I can recall.

9. I'm sure this has occurred to the club. I saw a quote on a BRFC supporters blog that Don Mackay most wanted to sign a young asian from the area. So the club knew this was a relevant issue many years ago.

10. That's the manager's decision.

11. Makes sense.

12. Might have such schemes in operation already. BFS has appointed nutritionists and a lot of his former staff are still employed at Newcastle according to a story in the People newspaper this morning.

13. Always possible to integrate more within the community.

14. No would prefer training to be conducted in private.

15. If the fans change their mentality a bit more towards the "think big" mantra Jack Walker possessed then fine. Otherwise it would just drag the club down.

16. Older fans wouldn't agree. I would support it myself but the majority wouldn't. Also there would have to be certain limits of course.

It would be possible if BRFC fans would encourage absolute dislike of everything associated with Man United. All top 4 clubs are a threat but they are the biggest as the most local. Unfortunately some BRFC fans would rather focus their dislike on clubs that are absolutely zero threat to Ewood support.

1.) I'd be willing to sacrifice 1-2 1st team players or a few reserves wages to generate the cash, but thats just me. I think youth is the only way we can stay at this level long term, pity the club disagree.

2.) Why? Williams could do it.

4.) Does he??? I thought Finn was purely responsible for the youth, and he answers to the trust not williams, doesn't he?

5.) We have no money, no-one wants to buy us and we are already a selling club, we just need to accept it.

6.) How big do you think say stoke or hull or WBA wages are???? 2 of those will probably stay up one of them is 11th

Wages in the premiership we are the 12th highest spenders

Money isn't everything, if we stopped wasting 10K on berners and 20K on gallys our wage budget would be a lot less. We offer the one thting almost every player in the world wants Premiership football, we give them the platform they do the business we both get the benefits.

7.) for new ideas, technologies, training methods, coaching methods, nutrition, psychology and so on, lots of clever people looking for that advantage Sam keeps going on about.

8.) Isn't the Brugge link dead now, its not about being a feeder club and if you honestly don't think getting say a kid/young international from Inter or Barca would help then???? We have no money we need new players so why the hell not a few loan players each year!

just because we loan players from other clubs does not make us a feeder club. It happens on the continent all the time we need to use this option more.

9.) but what has happened????? Nothing.

10.) no its not. We ended up in the ###### this year because when Hughes left so did everyone and everything. then we allowed second rate coaches in the door and they must have know that they where second rate and now we're right in the pooh, Tugay would get my vote for starters. He could have a say obviously he would have to but you'll notice the top clubs have them especially abroad.

The club should support the manager but the club should look after its self first. what do you think will happen if Sam goes to a new team?

12.) Isn't that article about Newcastle??? I maybe mistaken but I can't find anything about nutritionists at Rovers. We do need to take a different approach we need experts, for example did you know that I know how to stimulate glycolysis even when lactic acid levels reach the point where pyruvate production drops off and so on. Many aspects of science are still to be applied in football. Even if we don't have money I know people who would do it for free - Students. Loughbourgh, Exeter and LJMU are the three best uni's in this field, we should build links to them. If Ljmu is good enough that Real Madrid would pay us the silly amount of money they do for our work then it must have merit.

14.) why??? Before I built up contacts abroad I used to go and watch them train in open sessions even up to the likes of Ajax, Bayern, Milan lots of clubs do it on the continent. Fans come and watch buy tea and coffee and we the fans get to feel closer to the players we support. You can still have closed sessions as well.

15.) Thinking big does not have to mean money, we don't have any we are never going to get bought so we have to what we can with what we have. We must make our own the best way to do that is to sell players, but everything else must be up and running for it to work. As I said with a functioning youth set-up, not one or two a year nearer 10 a year (yes its possible I know clubs who do it year in year out) then we would be able to generate our own money. But we have to take a new approach. I've seen 6 year olds, yes 6 displaying spacial awareness, most would tell you its not possible at that age, but yes it is I've seen it with my own eyes.

16.) I will never understand that attitude we have a half empty stadium dropping gates each year and a real lack of young fans, most kids would come with an adult who pays. At the end of the day every empty seat we have at every hohme game is lost money we will never get back, charge them a quid if that makes a difference, but we may get some new fans for life from it.

At the end of the day until someone acctually bids for us we have to do what we can with what we have and make the best of it. We can scream all we want for a take-over but realistically I think we can do it ourselves. Perhaps if we showed some intiative instead of just moaning about lack of funds and tried new ideas to get money in then the trust might change their tune, they are business people after all.

[Guest Vinjay606]

1.) I'd be willing to sacrifice 1-2 1st team players or a few reserves wages to generate the cash, but thats just me. I think youth is the only way we can stay at this level long term, pity the club disagree.

2.) Why? Williams could do it.

4.) Does he??? I thought Finn was purely responsible for the youth, and he answers to the trust not williams, doesn't he?

5.) We have no money, no-one wants to buy us and we are already a selling club, we just need to accept it.

6.) How big do you think say stoke or hull or WBA wages are???? 2 of those will probably stay up one of them is 11th

Wages in the premiership we are the 12th highest spenders

Money isn't everything, if we stopped wasting 10K on berners and 20K on gallys our wage budget would be a lot less. We offer the one thting almost every player in the world wants Premiership football, we give them the platform they do the business we both get the benefits.

8.) Isn't the Brugge link dead now, its not about being a feeder club and if you honestly don't think getting say a kid/young international from Inter or Barca would help then???? We have no money we need new players so why the hell not a few loan players each year!

just because we loan players from other clubs does not make us a feeder club. It happens on the continent all the time we need to use this option more.

9.) but what has happened????? Nothing.

10.) no its not. We ended up in the ###### this year because when Hughes left so did everyone and everything. then we allowed second rate coaches in the door and they must have know that they where second rate and now we're right in the pooh, Tugay would get my vote for starters. He could have a say obviously he would have to but you'll notice the top clubs have them especially abroad.

The club should support the manager but the club should look after its self first. what do you think will happen if Sam goes to a new team?

12.) Isn't that article about Newcastle??? I maybe mistaken but I can't find anything about nutritionists at Rovers. We do need to take a different approach we need experts, for example did you know that I know how to stimulate glycolysis even when lactic acid levels reach the point where pyruvate production drops off and so on. Many aspects of science are still to be applied in football. Even if we don't have money I know people who would do it for free - Students. Loughbourgh, Exeter and LJMU are the three best uni's in this field, we should build links to them. If Ljmu is good enough that Real Madrid would pay us the silly amount of money they do for our work then it must have merit.

14.) why??? Before I built up contacts abroad I used to go and watch them train in open sessions even up to the likes of Ajax, Bayern, Milan lots of clubs do it on the continent. Fans come and watch buy tea and coffee and we the fans get to feel closer to the players we support. You can still have closed sessions as well.

15.) Thinking big does not have to mean money, we don't have any we are never going to get bought so we have to what we can with what we have. We must make our own the best way to do that is to sell players, but everything else must be up and running for it to work. As I said with a functioning youth set-up, not one or two a year nearer 10 a year (yes its possible I know clubs who do it year in year out) then we would be able to generate our own money. But we have to take a new approach. I've seen 6 year olds, yes 6 displaying spacial awareness, most would tell you its not possible at that age, but yes it is I've seen it with my own eyes.

16.) I will never understand that attitude we have a half empty stadium dropping gates each year and a real lack of young fans, most kids would come with an adult who pays. At the end of the day every empty seat we have at every hohme game is lost money we will never get back, charge them a quid if that makes a difference, but we may get some new fans for life from it.

At the end of the day until someone acctually bids for us we have to do what we can with what we have and make the best of it. We can scream all we want for a take-over but realistically I think we can do it ourselves. Perhaps if we showed some intiative instead of just moaning about lack of funds and tried new ideas to get money in then the trust might change their tune, they are business people after all.

1. A great youth system has done little for Middlesbrough this season.

2. Williams would not interfere in signing policy.

4. The whole board answers to the trust/walkers as far as I know.

5. It's a trading club and how do you know nobody wants to buy the club? At the moment probably not since safety hasn't been ensured. In the summer though why not? I won't accept anything especially not when the club continue to use Rothschild. I doubt somehow that Rothschild offer their services for free. Knowing what the owners are like they money they wouldn't pay Rothschild if they felt there was no chance of a sale.

6. That wage model will not sustain premier league status. I expect Hull and Stoke will increase their wage budgets should Hull stay up of course.

8. I don't mind loaning players from the continent but I won't accept a feeder type link with any club.

9. Probably because there's nobody good enough.

10. At academy level there are staff who have been committed to the club for years. Though perhaps it's time they were replaced.

12. It was about Newcastle but my point is that BFS employed those nutritionists. So he has used specialist assistance in one area you suggested.

14. I don't want the players feeling harassed by fans. They are supposed to be working and fans will be expecting fancy exhibition skills that have nothing to do with general training.

15. Without decent funding it is not possible to "think big" and "achieve big" at this level.

16. I can't understand that attitude either but unfortunately some people are selfish. Start offering free tickets and paying customers would stop attending. I wouldn't but many others would.

[Majiball]

1. A great youth system has done little for Middlesbrough this season.

2. Williams would not interfere in signing policy.

4. The whole board answers to the trust/walkers as far as I know.

5. It's a trading club and how do you know nobody wants to buy the club? At the moment probably not since safety hasn't been ensured. In the summer though why not? I won't accept anything especially not when the club continue to use Rothschild. I doubt somehow that Rothschild offer their services for free. Knowing what the owners are like they money they wouldn't pay Rothschild if they felt there was no chance of a sale.

6. That wage model will not sustain premier league status. I expect Hull and Stoke will increase their wage budgets should Hull stay up of course.

8. I don't mind loaning players from the continent but I won't accept a feeder type link with any club.

9. Probably because there's nobody good enough.

10. At academy level there are staff who have been committed to the club for years. Though perhaps it's time they were replaced.

12. It was about Newcastle but my point is that BFS employed those nutritionists. So he has used specialist assistance in one area you suggested.

14. I don't want the players feeling harassed by fans. They are supposed to be working and fans will be expecting fancy exhibition skills that have nothing to do with general training.

15. Without decent funding it is not possible to "think big" and "achieve big" at this level.

16. I can't understand that attitude either but unfortunately some people are selfish. Start offering free tickets and paying customers would stop attending. I wouldn't but many others would.

1.) who says middlesbourgh have a great youth system, I wouldn't. We are ten years behind the rest of europe and we copy the model of a club no better than us, says enough for me. If you honestly don't believe a good youth set-up could push-us forward fine, thats up to you I adamnently and completely disagree, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

2.) Again why??? Williams should interfere, perhaps if he had stuck his neck out and said no to Mathias and Knox and Robinson we would still have a decent transfer budget. Blind faith in you manager is not a good thing.

4.) I know Williams has little in-put into the youth, I personally feel thats wrong he's the chairman they should answer to him and Williams to the trust. Like most clubs do.

5.) Rothschild will get a % of the sale amount, I doubt its done differently.

6.) We have how many players on our books is it about 45 thats far to high we could lose 15 easily that would free up serious money for the club, say 20 1st team and ten reserves backed up by the kids who will then get more experience sooner.

9.) there's one or two, but given that the Spainish are going to Japan now to study there coaching techniques as they consider there kids to be better than theres technically, I'd say we could probably find one or two.

10.) David Dunn is the only player we have produced who has cemented his place in the first team in the last 10 years or so, that is abject failure and yet we still reward them with new contracts as they supply the same excuses time after time its a a joke, seriously we have one of the worst youth producing records in the area, even tranmere have produced more players than us in that time, so what does that say about Rovers with all our money (compared to them)

12.) Yes he did but we don't have them at Rovers, we may get one or two in in the summer but again as we waste our money on players and don't consider the club as a whole we will not get people of the required level or in the right amounts.

14.) why would the fans harass the players they will just stand and watch, if they do you kick them out. The whole idea is to make our club a bigger part of the community to make fans feel more a part of the club. Anyway most people work when they train so it will not be that many. It works as I said all over europe they do it for that very reason.

15.) Again I think your wrong and we'll just have to disagree, it would take time my way but its realistic and we can achieve it. Your putting all your hope in something that hasn't transpired in almost 5 years, if we'd done it my way we would almost be there by now.

16.) we have to get the next generation hooked on Rovers somehow, how big will our crowds be in 10-20 years? I don't see lots of kids at Rovers they just want glory we could try and change that, we've got to do something. Free coaching from 4 upwards two/three times a week at the training ground straight after school would show we care about Blackburn the town that we want to be a part of it and help anyway we can. We also then get to train kids from a younger age, it provides more than one positive. They do a lot of this in spain (No.1 in the world youth wise at present) and it works as I said 6 year olds displaying spacial awareness is un-heard of in England.

[Guest Vinjay606]

1.) who says middlesbourgh have a great youth system, I wouldn't. We are ten years behind the rest of europe and we copy the model of a club no better than us, says enough for me. If you honestly don't believe a good youth set-up could push-us forward fine, thats up to you I adamnently and completely disagree, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

2.) Again why??? Williams should interfere, perhaps if he had stuck his neck out and said no to Mathias and Knox and Robinson we would still have a decent transfer budget. Blind faith in you manager is not a good thing.

4.) I know Williams has little in-put into the youth, I personally feel thats wrong he's the chairman they should answer to him and Williams to the trust. Like most clubs do.

5.) Rothschild will get a % of the sale amount, I doubt its done differently.

6.) We have how many players on our books is it about 45 thats far to high we could lose 15 easily that would free up serious money for the club, say 20 1st team and ten reserves backed up by the kids who will then get more experience sooner.

9.) there's one or two, but given that the Spainish are going to Japan now to study there coaching techniques as they consider there kids to be better than theres technically, I'd say we could probably find one or two.

10.) David Dunn is the only player we have produced who has cemented his place in the first team in the last 10 years or so, that is abject failure and yet we still reward them with new contracts as they supply the same excuses time after time its a a joke, seriously we have one of the worst youth producing records in the area, even tranmere have produced more players than us in that time, so what does that say about Rovers with all our money (compared to them)

12.) Yes he did but we don't have them at Rovers, we may get one or two in in the summer but again as we waste our money on players and don't consider the club as a whole we will not get people of the required level or in the right amounts.

14.) why would the fans harass the players they will just stand and watch, if they do you kick them out. The whole idea is to make our club a bigger part of the community to make fans feel more a part of the club. Anyway most people work when they train so it will not be that many. It works as I said all over europe they do it for that very reason.

15.) Again I think your wrong and we'll just have to disagree, it would take time my way but its realistic and we can achieve it. Your putting all your hope in something that hasn't transpired in almost 5 years, if we'd done it my way we would almost be there by now.

16.) we have to get the next generation hooked on Rovers somehow, how big will our crowds be in 10-20 years? I don't see lots of kids at Rovers they just want glory we could try and change that, we've got to do something. Free coaching from 4 upwards two/three times a week at the training ground straight after school would show we care about Blackburn the town that we want to be a part of it and help anyway we can. We also then get to train kids from a younger age, it provides more than one positive. They do a lot of this in spain (No.1 in the world youth wise at present) and it works as I said 6 year olds displaying spacial awareness is un-heard of in England.

1. Middlesbrough's academy has been well publicized as one of the most productive in the premier league. I never said a good youth setup couldn't push the club forward.

2. Williams won't interfere. If I owned a football club I would get involved in team matters as relates to purchases. Williams won't do that either in purchases, selection of players, or tactics but it's been said that he somehow had a say in the signing of Kevin Davies. Mangers might accept owner interference but not chairmen.

4. Has Williams said that to you personally? If so then I agree it is wrong.

5. Sounds like a possible alternative to consultation fees.

6. Would you call for an abolishment of the reserve side?

9. That might be the case for Japan but we are looking at young Indians and Pakistanis in local terms. No reason why the club can't extend beyond that though and search on a full scale international basis.

10. If that's right then it's pathetic.

12. Depends how many staff he is allowed to bring in. I wouldn't set a limit personally.

14. The players would try and show off with silly tricks. That's not what training is about.

15. That's the way forward the club is looking at though.

16. Agree.

[Majiball]

1. Middlesbrough's academy has been well publicized as one of the most productive in the premier league. I never said a good youth setup couldn't push the club forward.

2. Williams won't interfere. If I owned a football club I would get involved in team matters as relates to purchases. Williams won't do that either in purchases, selection of players, or tactics but it's been said that he somehow had a say in the signing of Kevin Davies. Mangers might accept owner interference but not chairmen.

4. Has Williams said that to you personally? If so then I agree it is wrong.

5. Sounds like a possible alternative to consultation fees.

6. Would you call for an abolishment of the reserve side?

9. That might be the case for Japan but we are looking at young Indians and Pakistanis in local terms. No reason why the club can't extend beyond that though and search on a full scale international basis.

10. If that's right then it's pathetic.

12. Depends how many staff he is allowed to bring in. I wouldn't set a limit personally.

14. The players would try and show off with silly tricks. That's not what training is about.

15. That's the way forward the club is looking at though.

16. Agree.

1.) its well publicized because middlesbourgh are looking to bring them through and give them playing time, however that does not mean the kids are good enough. They fielded a local team once they lost 6 - 0 albeit to Chelsea but its shows the gulf in class. Youth just like the adult game is global, middlesbourgh maybe good but the premiership is no longer an English league, we are flooded with players from other countries,why simple we cannot produce players of the required quality. The standard is so high and always going up, our youth development is not good enough.

When the likes of the Czech republic and Serbia rank above you in the youth development rankings you have to consider that we the English as a whole have gotten it wrong. So we base our model on a club who in the grand scale of things is not very good. Instead we should be sending coaches to Spain and various other countries figuring out why they do so well and adapting it to our game.

Coaching methodology has changed recently new licenses have been introduced, but we are behind some countries, so that in my eyes is an opportunity for Rovers to get a few steps ahead of the rest in this country, by going and learning as opposed to resting on our laurels and being dismissive of new ideas.

2.) Well that would worry me too, as I said faith is one thing but blind faith another.

6.) No I would not, however we do not need a reserve squad, they play about 20 games a year and they can be used to give the U-18's more experience at a younger age, in turn younger kids can also get some time at a higher level and so on. We do not need a reserve manager it should be done by the academy boss as it is at a lot of lower league clubs. He could then continue there development. This would create a real bridge between the academy and the first team as they would be mingling and the academy manager involved. At present we have a coach for the kids one for the reserves and then the first team, too many cooks, too many different ideas.

We would also then have money for another coach in a different role.

9.) sorry I never meant Indian, I was on about Japan and China, but thats a good idea is there one in the premiership or even lower?? i know there was one at Leeds a while back but haven't heard much since. If we had a decent youth set-up though I'm sure we could groom one ourselves.

10.) Yes it is right, all the other either failed to make the grade or where bought at 16-18 and we can't claim full credit for them. However new contracts are always given and the same rubbish excuses, but as always no action.

12.) I'd want them on short rolling contracts, as we cannot get stuck with 30+ staff we cannot afford, but we don't need massive numbers just quality.

14.) In all my trips I've never once seen that happen, never and it wouldn't here, why because the manager would go mental at the player I would. I honestly think it would be a good idea, parents watch their young kids train and they don't muck around because its my role as the coach to ensure they don't and I wouldn't be happy if they did. It would be un-professional of the player to do.

15.) having a plan is one thing having the ability and personnel to do it another we do not have the latter, and thats why we have failed.

[JAL]

Maybe the key to all of this is from a Walker trust point of view is, they need to seriously change their management team at Ewood Park from the chairmen downwards and bring in fresh people with fresh ideas that can deliver more value for money all round.

[Parsonblue]

Maybe the key to all of this is from a Walker trust point of view is, they need to seriously change their management team at Ewood Park from the chairmen downwards and bring in fresh people with fresh ideas that can deliver more value for money all round.

Totally disagree with you on this one. I believe that John Williams and Tom Finn have done an excellent job in their stewardship of the club. With the limited amount of money we have I really don't see how you could get more value for money. I agree that the Ince appointment was a poor one, but if the Trust weren't happy with it they could have blocked it.

For me the key to our plight this season is that the Trust refused to put extra money into the club in January when a couple of signings could have made a difference. Instead of which Derbyshire had to be moved out before Sam could bring in a couple of players - one only on loan - of his own.

I would not disagree that since Jack's death the Trust have put money into the club. However, I do feel that in our moment of need they were found wanting. I'm not quite sure what business plan they are working to. If they can't sell the club when we are in the Premier League they aren't going to find a buyer with us sitting in the middle of the Championship. Even if we do survive this season are they going to find funds for Sam for next season. If not then we are just delaying relegation by twelve months.

The key to our problems in both the short and long term is a lack of finance - but then again, apart from a brief interlude under Jack Walker, that has been the problem at the club for the past 40 to 50 years.

[Guest Vinjay606]

They aren't exactly the most "hands on" owners though so it's no surprise some senior staff at BRFC appear to be operating in a comfort zone mentality.

The only time they have ever stepped in was the decision to sack Ince. I have no doubt whatsoever it was them who demanded his sacking. I suppose it was something helpful from them at last.

One question I've honestly never seen answered is how did the club get into such a bad financial position (during the 70's, 80's) in the first place? Other clubs had problems certainly but not every club. Who was at fault for the problems here? I know there were protests against Bill Fox about funding including shortly before Jack's takeover.

It wasn't actually all bad during the 80's either. I've seen an article from around 1985 saying that BRFC made a profit that season.

[Majiball]

Totally disagree with you on this one. I believe that John Williams and Tom Finn have done an excellent job in their stewardship of the club. With the limited amount of money we have I really don't see how you could get more value for money. I agree that the Ince appointment was a poor one, but if the Trust weren't happy with it they could have blocked it.

For me the key to our plight this season is that the Trust refused to put extra money into the club in January when a couple of signings could have made a difference. Instead of which Derbyshire had to be moved out before Sam could bring in a couple of players - one only on loan - of his own.

I would not disagree that since Jack's death the Trust have put money into the club. However, I do feel that in our moment of need they were found wanting. I'm not quite sure what business plan they are working to. If they can't sell the club when we are in the Premier League they aren't going to find a buyer with us sitting in the middle of the Championship. Even if we do survive this season are they going to find funds for Sam for next season. If not then we are just delaying relegation by twelve months.

The key to our problems in both the short and long term is a lack of finance - but then again, apart from a brief interlude under Jack Walker, that has been the problem at the club for the past 40 to 50 years.

So let me get this right, its the trusts fault even though the club have know for some time that it would always be the case. So they knew there was no money and little hope of getting any but yet we still blame the trust. Thats a little like the student that comes to you the day before a deadline saying he never had enough time, its not good enough. They have always know that to be the case and yet all we have heard from Hughes and co and Ince is they won't put money in, that was always the case you knew it stop whinging like a spoilt little child ( aimed at Hughes and Ince).

Its not long ago I would have agreed with you, however now I live closer to the club, I most certainly do not. We have know this to be the case for some time and we still blame them. The key to our problem is that we are resting on our laurels instead of exploring every possiblity to improve and push the club forward within the bounderies we have always know about.

Strangley enough I seem to remember them putting in money this summer £3Million with the promise of more in Jan another £3M which I assume helped pay off Ince. So £6M this year, so effectively doubling our annual budget, so please tell me why do we have no transfer funds????

There's one thing money cannot provide and thats knowledge, and the thirst for it, where's rovers thirst.

[yoda]

They aren't exactly the most "hands on" owners though so it's no surprise some senior staff at BRFC appear to be operating in a comfort zone mentality.

The only time they have ever stepped in was the decision to sack Ince. I have no doubt whatsoever it was them who demanded his sacking. I suppose it was something helpful from them at last.

One question I've honestly never seen answered is how did the club get into such a bad financial position (during the 70's, 80's) in the first place? Other clubs had problems certainly but not every club. Who was at fault for the problems here? I know there were protests against Bill Fox about funding including shortly before Jack's takeover.

It wasn't actually all bad during the 80's either. I've seen an article from around 1985 saying that BRFC made a profit that season.

One question I've honestly never seen answered is how did the club get into such a bad financial position (during the 70's, 80's) in the first place?

By playing in the 2nd and 3rd divisions with lower crowds and less revenue, straight forward really.

Those of us that were around then know that what Jack did was superb but was never going to last at that level.

Still we are still hanging in there and being a pain to the bigger clubs, may of whome don't come close to our history and trophy count

[Al]

So let me get this right, its the trusts fault even though the club have know for some time that it would always be the case. So they knew there was no money and little hope of getting any but yet we still blame the trust. Thats a little like the student that comes to you the day before a deadline saying he never had enough time, its not good enough. They have always know that to be the case and yet all we have heard from Hughes and co and Ince is they won't put money in, that was always the case you knew it stop whinging like a spoilt little child ( aimed at Hughes and Ince).

Its not long ago I would have agreed with you, however now I live closer to the club, I most certainly do not. We have know this to be the case for some time and we still blame them. The key to our problem is that we are resting on our laurels instead of exploring every possiblity to improve and push the club forward within the bounderies we have always know about.

Strangley enough I seem to remember them putting in money this summer £3Million with the promise of more in Jan another £3M which I assume helped pay off Ince. So £6M this year, so effectively doubling our annual budget, so please tell me why do we have no transfer funds????

There's one thing money cannot provide and thats knowledge, and the thirst for it, where's rovers thirst.

What you fail to mention is that the £3mil inputs were loans only and have to be repaid. It is obvious that the faceless ones in Jersey don't care about Rovers and it is also clear that the club would have been sold by now if they were not so greedy. They have got it badly wrong and now have an unsaleable asset on their books. Jack would be turning in his grave at the way his beloved club was being handled.

[Guest Vinjay606]

One question I've honestly never seen answered is how did the club get into such a bad financial position (during the 70's, 80's) in the first place?Those of us that were around then know that what Jack did was superb but was never going to last at that level.

That's not how Jack Walker felt.

Don't you think it's because of mentality like this from certain fans which forced the likes of Shearer out? When he left the club he voiced his belief that Jack would take the club back to the top but maybe he got tired of some older fans acting so small minded.

I accept that even if the owners were backing the club to a decent standard it wouldn't be enough to challenge for the title. While Jack was here though there was no means of knowing inflation in transfers/wages was going to hit such levels. If there was Jack with his business acumen would have instantly recognised the patterns.

What you fail to mention is that the £3mil inputs were loans only and have to be repaid. It is obvious that the faceless ones in Jersey don't care about Rovers and it is also clear that the club would have been sold by now if they were not so greedy. They have got it badly wrong and now have an unsaleable asset on their books. Jack would be turning in his grave at the way his beloved club was being handled.

No doubt whatsoever Jack would be disgusted.

This greed thing is a good point and I make reference to Ronnie/Chowdery being quoted different prices for the club. There should be a fixed price not attempts to start a bidding war.

[Parsonblue]

They aren't exactly the most "hands on" owners though so it's no surprise some senior staff at BRFC appear to be operating in a comfort zone mentality.

The only time they have ever stepped in was the decision to sack Ince. I have no doubt whatsoever it was them who demanded his sacking. I suppose it was something helpful from them at last.

One question I've honestly never seen answered is how did the club get into such a bad financial position (during the 70's, 80's) in the first place? Other clubs had problems certainly but not every club. Who was at fault for the problems here? I know there were protests against Bill Fox about funding including shortly before Jack's takeover.

It wasn't actually all bad during the 80's either. I've seen an article from around 1985 saying that BRFC made a profit that season.

Like the majority of town clubs in Lancashire, the Rovers have always had periods of financial difficulty throughout their history. However, the cause of many of the problems in the past 50 years came with the abolition of the maximum wage in 1960. In 1960 the Rovers, Blackpool, Burnley, Bolton and Preston North End were all in the First Division but once the limit on wages was lifted these clubs couldn't complete with the money that the big city clubs paid. Hence all of these clubs slipped down the Leagues during the 1960s and 1970s. Gates fell and income was generated by selling the better players. The same happened at all of the Lancashire clubs not just the Rovers.

The eighties weren't that great believe me. Bob Saxton had to build a team on a shoestring budget and one of the reasons that the fans were unhappy was because of the lack of investment in the team. There were a few seasons when we got close to promotion but didn't strengthen the team when we needed to. Clearly, with hindsight, the money simply wasn't there. We lost some excellent managers like Furphy, Lee, Smith and Kendall because, like Hughes, they took the club so far and then found they couldn't do anymore and jumped ship for more lucrative jobs.

You ask who was to blame. I don't believe there was anyone to blame it was just that the game moved on and the town clubs got left behind. The same thing is happening again today. The top four in the Premier League will remain the top four because of Champions League money. There are a few clubs under them who get good gates and/or have money to keep them challenging for Europe. Then there is the rest - including the Rovers - for whom fourth from bottom is success because it keeps us on the money train that is the Premier League. Rather than being the norm, the Jack Walker period was actually a blip in an otherwise continual struggle to keep our heads above water. It was great while it lasted and the period from 1991 to 1995 was out of this world when compared to what we had witnessed in the previous twenty-five years. However, I suspect the same was said by supporters who enjoyed the period when Lawrence Cotton did the same before the First World War. However, these two periods are in no way reflective of the majority of the club's history.

It's worth remembering Vinjay, that since 1936, Blackburn Rovers have never spent more than eight consecutive seasons in the top flight of English football.

[Parsonblue]

So let me get this right, its the trusts fault even though the club have know for some time that it would always be the case. So they knew there was no money and little hope of getting any but yet we still blame the trust. Thats a little like the student that comes to you the day before a deadline saying he never had enough time, its not good enough. They have always know that to be the case and yet all we have heard from Hughes and co and Ince is they won't put money in, that was always the case you knew it stop whinging like a spoilt little child ( aimed at Hughes and Ince).

Its not long ago I would have agreed with you, however now I live closer to the club, I most certainly do not. We have know this to be the case for some time and we still blame them. The key to our problem is that we are resting on our laurels instead of exploring every possiblity to improve and push the club forward within the bounderies we have always know about.

Strangley enough I seem to remember them putting in money this summer £3Million with the promise of more in Jan another £3M which I assume helped pay off Ince. So £6M this year, so effectively doubling our annual budget, so please tell me why do we have no transfer funds????

There's one thing money cannot provide and thats knowledge, and the thirst for it, where's rovers thirst.

I fully accept that the Trust have put money in since Jack's death - which is what I said. However, whether they like it or not the The Trust are the owners of the club at the moment. It has been clear over the past eighteen months that we have been desperately short of quality in midfield. The point I was trying to make was that from a purely business point of view it would surely have been better to have invested a few million in January to try to protect the Premier League revenues for next season. I would have thought they could then have recouped that money from next season's TV money if they so wished.

Of course, if may well be their business plan is to allow the club to find it's own level and become self sufficient. Clearly, without financial aid the Premier League is not our level and I suspect that we could easily follow the same path as Charlton Athletic.

My other point, which I still believe to be valid, was that if you can't sell the club while we have Premier League status who is going to invest if we drop into the Championship. We have seen clubs throw huge amounts of money at trying to get out of that division and fail. I wouldn't have thought the prospect of owning a middling Championship club would appeal to too many people.