[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[Walls]

Just to highlight how much negativity there is on here at the moment...

5+ pages in the 1st 12 hours after the initial story originating from some Paraguayan 2 bob radio station claiming that Roque wanted to leave - with the usual suspects claiming the sky is falling down and we were faced with certain relegation. Then since the denial by HIS OWN AGENT barely one page of posts with most of those coming from Chicken Lickin himself. No wonder a lot of the regular veteran posters aren't here anymore...

[DingleBaiter]

No wonder a lot of the regular veteran posters aren't here anymore...

Fair point - until we can operate a mass cull of the gullible, the stupid, the negative, the conspiracists, the axe-grinders, the chip-balancers, the Ince agitaters etc., we've got to live with it sadly.

The MEN headline on the newsagents board today "Santa wants to be a blue".

*sigh*

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Fair point - until we can operate a mass cull of the gullible, the stupid, the negative, the conspiracists, the axe-grinders, the chip-balancers, the Ince agitaters etc., we've got to live with it sadly.

The MEN headline on the newsagents board today "Santa wants to be a blue".

*sigh*

If the MEN is to be believed Santa Cruz and Freidel are already playing for City already as they were nailed on signings during the summer

[JAL]

It's from JAL, so even if the club did bother to deny the story, JAL would use some other weird logic to hit the club and Ince, and generally whinge and criticise.

Come on Billy get your head out of the sand.

[DeadlyDirk]

And the media wonder why some players and managers refused to give press conferences or post match interviews these days.

They try and twist every word they say!

[den]

Just to highlight how much negativity there is on here at the moment...

5+ pages in the 1st 12 hours after the initial story originating from some Paraguayan 2 bob radio station claiming that Roque wanted to leave - with the usual suspects claiming the sky is falling down and we were faced with certain relegation. Then since the denial by HIS OWN AGENT barely one page of posts with most of those coming from Chicken Lickin himself. No wonder a lot of the regular veteran posters aren't here anymore...

A pretty meaningless post - unless you can point out what you would like the said posters to retract?

[Billy Castell]

Come on Billy get your head out of the sand.

Sorry but you are worse than the much maligned Vinjay. Everything is negative, Williams is rubbish, Ince is rubbish, we're getting relegated, Ince is to blame for the recession, we should sack Ince and replace him with........................no-one as you so rarely mention who you would actually like if at all. Honestly, you should go off and support Man Utd or Chelsea.

I believe it was a badly translated interview, and that RSC will move sometime, but for good money. Janurary? probably not.

[waggy]

PB.

I haven't said that Rovers shouldn't ever sell their best players. That's not my point. They should do it only when they must and when it's best for the club. Accepting that we can never keep anyone is not the way for a club to approach things. You keep hold of them as long as you can, because you don't know what the future holds. Things change, minds change, form changes, circumstances change.

We didn't have to sell Bentley, Friedel or RSC.

Simply allowing anyone to leave, whenever they ask to move is a quick route to relegation.

In short, my answer to RSC [if he asks for a move] would be simple. It would have been the same to Bentley - NO. I'm also quite certain that DB would be providing goals this season for Rocky.

we kept benny mac when he wanted a move,and thats proved disastrious , keeping a keeper who wants to move,and made sure his future team had european football before he left us,would be a good move.?as for bentley we got a brilliant price for a average player,who wanted out

[den]

we kept benny mac when he wanted a move,and thats proved disastrious , keeping a keeper who wants to move,and made sure his future team had european football before he left us,would be a good move.?as for bentley we got a brilliant price for a average player,who wanted out

Hmmm Waggy? We did indeed keep Benny Mac, so why do people say we can't keep players who want away? We just did. and to answer the cries of he's not been the same player since he wasn't allowed to go to Chelsea, - well that's McCarthy isn't it! Gareth Barry's still playing well since he was denied his move. Benni wasn't that great just prior to the Chelsea thing, remember all the criticism of him on here?

Bentley. We got a brilliant price for an average player? Well he was our most creative player and made his way into the England team on the back of his play. How much did Rovers bank, - and what use has that been to us?

So, we keep Benni who wants to go to Chelsea with Rovers keeping 100% of the fee, yet allow Bentley to go with Arsenal recieving up to maybe 50% of the fee? Good moves Waggy?

[waggy]

Hmmm Waggy? We did indeed keep Benny Mac, so why do people say we can't keep players who want away? We just did. and to answer the cries of he's not been the same player since he wasn't allowed to go to Chelsea, - well that's McCarthy isn't it! Gareth Barry's still playing well since he was denied his move. Benni wasn't that great just prior to the Chelsea thing, remember all the criticism of him on here?

Bentley. We got a brilliant price for an average player? Well he was our most creative player and made his way into the England team on the back of his play. How much did Rovers bank, - and what use has that been to us?

So, we keep Benni who wants to go to Chelsea with Rovers keeping 100% of the fee, yet allow Bentley to go with Arsenal recieving up to maybe 50% of the fee? Good moves Waggy?

the point is friedal or bentley could have behaved exactly like benni,better getting rid off anyone who wants out

[den]

the point is friedal or bentley could have behaved exactly like benni,better getting rid off anyone who wants out

That's the way back down the leagues Waggy. You must try to keep your best players, like most other clubs do. Keep hold of them as long as you can. There comes a time financially when you have to let them go, but we weren't there with Bentley. Things change. Let's say Rovers denied Bentley his move, Spurs move onto another player. Who's to say Bents doesn't sign another contract when no-one else comes in for him? It's happened before with loads of players.

One more question, - are Villa better off, or worse off with keeping Barry?

[ABBEY]

i can see both points,are we better keeping benni can be asked too.

If they dont want to play and sweat blood for us stuff em.(not aimed at rocky ,just in general)

[den]

i can see both points,are we better keeping benni can be asked too.

If they dont want to play and sweat blood for us stuff em.(not aimed at rocky ,just in general)

That's just a personal reaction Abbey. Thankfully most managers can see the bigger picture regarding their best players. Bobby Robson could have sold half of his first team squad a few years ago. Bellamy, Dyer, Bowyer and a host of good players were making life very difficult for him. He could have got rid of them all, with full backing from almost everyone. Robson was clever enough to manage the situation though, he put up with their whingeing and backbiting and stupidity, in order to keep his best players turning out for him on a Saturday afternoon. He was the last successful manager they had. They brought in Souness to sort out the bad guys and look where it got them.

That's the same Souness that didn't realise the worth of the players at Ewood during his last year and a half.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Things change. Let's say Rovers denied Bentley his move, Spurs move onto another player. Who's to say Bents doesn't sign another contract when no-one else comes in for him? It's happened before with loads of players.

Indeed. It's equally plausibe that Bentley would have been as cack for us this year as he has been for Spurs (and was for us for the last 3rd of last season), being too greedy shooting from everywhere rather than crossing for RSC, losing his place in the England squad and been worth no more than 5 million.

We sold at the top of the market, as we did with Duff, Shearer and Sutton. Personally, I wish we never sold our top players but it was ever thus. We saw the best of the aformentioned bunch and I believe we will have done with Bentley. At least its better than when we had to sell Mike England, Keith Newton, Allan Hunter etc who all went onto far greater things after leaving us.

While I wasn't thrilled that we have not, as yet, found a replacement for Bentley's creativity from earlier last season, I am glad we did not go splashing the cash on 2nd raters a la Bradford City. We have to replace it via either players like Carlos - unknowns fro God Knows Where or through the youth team, both of which are unpredictable and take time.

In the meantime, the rest of the squad will have to earn their vast salaries more than they did last year when half of them would stop for a fag after giving it to Bentley.

[den]

That's just wanting to sell him because you think he's useless EIT.

No point debating when you're that clear.

[Mr. E]

I don't understand you people. Did not the exact same thing happen with Hughes, Friedel and Bentley? Sign contract, claim how happy they are at the club, 6 months later - "Blackburn? What's that?" And we had the other "usual suspects" going on about misquoted interviews and such, when the fact is when this is appearing every other day there's no way it doesn't have bases of truth. And there is no reason to trust Santa Cruz anyway. He came to Rovers for the same reason many foreigners come - to get his career back on track and get picked up by a richer team. And as long as we keep making excuses for such players, this mentality will persist and we'll be used as nothing more than a rug. If you "accept that", fine, but that makes it an extremely sad state of affairs.

[Exiled in Toronto]

That's just wanting to sell him because you think he's useless EIT.

No point debating when you're that clear.

Not at all. I was just pointing out that your 'keep him at all costs' stance could have equally backfired on us. We'll never know. But I do know we got top dollar for a player who wanted to leave.

[den]

Not at all. I was just pointing out that your 'keep him at all costs' stance could have equally backfired on us. We'll never know. But I do know we got top dollar for a player who wanted to leave.

You can't sell your best players at the first opportunity, simply because they might go down the drain EIT.

[Exiled in Toronto]

You can't sell your best players at the first opportunity, simply because they might go down the drain EIT.

First opportunity? I thought he had been with us for the best part of 3 years. Was there a no sale clause during that time? Rovers sold not at the first opportunity but at what in hindsight is looking like the best opportunity. How much would Spurs get for him today: benched for his club and an England drop-out, not to mention the financial collapse?

Neither can you claim, as you did earlier, that he would have been supplying endless peachy crosses had he stayed when he is patently doing no such thing when he gets on the pitch for Spurs.

Your argument that it was a monumental mistake to let him go doesn't hold water at the moment.

[thenodrog]

Every time we have a player excelling he is immediately linked with other clubs, so how come this sort of media speculation does not appear to happen quite as often or quite as intense with the likes of Everton, Boro, Pompey, Bolton and other clubs of similar status to ourselves?

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Every time we have a player excelling he is immediately linked with other clubs, so how come this sort of media speculation does not appear to happen quite as often or quite as intense with the likes of Everton, Boro, Pompey, Bolton and other clubs of similar status to ourselves?

Middlesboro and Bolton do get their players linked with other clubs, such as downing and both keepers at Bolton for examples. Pompey also have had players linked in the past. I don't why Everton don't though.

[Paul]

Every time we have a player excelling he is immediately linked with other clubs, so how come this sort of media speculation does not appear to happen quite as often or quite as intense with the likes of Everton, Boro, Pompey, Bolton and other clubs of similar status to ourselves?

Perhaps fans are just more aware of the links when it's one their club's players? When it's another club the linking is just part of the general media speculation we all half listen to?

[den]

First opportunity? I thought he had been with us for the best part of 3 years. Was there a no sale clause during that time? Rovers sold not at the first opportunity but at what in hindsight is looking like the best opportunity. How much would Spurs get for him today: benched for his club and an England drop-out, not to mention the financial collapse?

Neither can you claim, as you did earlier, that he would have been supplying endless peachy crosses had he stayed when he is patently doing no such thing when he gets on the pitch for Spurs.

Your argument that it was a monumental mistake to let him go doesn't hold water at the moment.

It holds water to those that go down to see a huge hole in the right hand side of midfield and see a side completely void of invention.

As for his Spurs form, - well I don't watch Spurs, but by all accounts he's been played left wing and right back? Did you take that into consideration?

Bottom line EIT, is that Bentley was our only provider.

Anyway, congrats, you've pulled me down the Bentley route which wasn't my real point. I was discussing why IMO any club worth it's salt tries it's best to keep hold of it's best players for as long as it can. Others think that when a player asks for a move and maybe kicks up a fuss, you have no option other than to let him go. Whatever the timing.

[gumboots]

It holds water to those that go down to see a huge hole in the right hand side of midfield and see a side completely void of invention.

As for his Spurs form, - well I don't watch Spurs, but by all accounts he's been played left wing and right back? Did you take that into consideration?

Bottom line EIT, is that Bentley was our only provider.

Anyway, congrats, you've pulled me down the Bentley route which wasn't my real point. I was discussing why IMO any club worth it's salt tries it's best to keep hold of it's best players for as long as it can. Others think that when a player asks for a move and maybe kicks up a fuss, you have no option other than to let him go. Whatever the timing.

No we don't. We think there's a limited amount any manager can do to hold onto players and sometimes in the interests of the club, team spirit or whatever, even the bigger clubs' managers have to let players go. You're not telling me that spurs actually wanted to let Berbatov go on the last day. You're not telling me Wenger actually wanted to see the back of Flamini and Hleb. We are not party to all that goes on in training, in the dressing room, between managers and players, players and players. Mark Hughes had told Bentley he wasn't leaving but whether when the chips were down Bentley would still have pulled the stunts he did and Hughes would have had to/decided to sell him, we just don't know. If Bentley was our only provider then no wonder we failed to reach European qualification. No team should rely on one man to that extent. Short term loss may well be long term gain. Who knows? Just stop carping and criticising all the time, and certainly stop twisting what others are saying to suit your own arguments.

[T4E]

Audemar, won the 7.50 at Great Leighs last night. The horse is owned collectively by Owen Hargreaves, Claudio Pizzaro and Roque.