[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[CrazyIvan]

We were paying Bentley £20K a week on a contract with no immediate danger of a Bosman. The player had an England place to protect so if Rovers had simply dropped him, he would have fallen into line sharp enough, particularly with a triple your money contract waiting to be signed at Ewood. From a commercial standpoint with quite probably 50% of the profit heading back to Arsenal, it made no sense to sell.

From a football standpoint, it made no sense to sell without a replacement lined up but it appears Ince's second error of judgement was to believe that Emerton was good enough to play right wing and keep RSC happy (it is RSC's thread by the way).

I think we gave in and rolled over like pussycats having their tummies tickled when we agreed to sell him. Villa put up with a huge amount of flack from Barry and his people but they had the balls to ride through it. We didn't.

I think that is probably a very simplistic view of what actually occured. For now though we don't really have a clue and all of this stuff is conjecture and guesswork.

[Head Rover Heels]

I think we gave in and rolled over like pussycats having their tummies tickled when we agreed to sell him.

Don't forget, a pussycat only ever does that so that he/she can get a better grip on your forearm with all four paws when good and ready.

[DingleBaiter]

We were paying Bentley £20K a week on a contract with no immediate danger of a Bosman. The player had an England place to protect so if Rovers had simply dropped him, he would have fallen into line sharp enough, particularly with a triple your money contract waiting to be signed at Ewood. From a commercial standpoint with quite probably 50% of the profit heading back to Arsenal, it made no sense to sell.

From a football standpoint, it made no sense to sell without a replacement lined up but it appears Ince's second error of judgement was to believe that Emerton was good enough to play right wing and keep RSC happy (it is RSC's thread by the way).

I think we gave in and rolled over like pussycats having their tummies tickled when we agreed to sell him. Villa put up with a huge amount of flack from Barry and his people but they had the balls to ride through it. We didn't.

is it particularly sunny in Malta just now? Sunstroke prevalent? Your second sentence isn't correct; once he made it clear he wouldn't be signing the contract (before Ince arrived) Rovers withdrew their contract offer.

While we're at it; your last paragraph seems contradictory - we 'gave in' simply by cashing him in? In what respect did we 'give in'. We got over-the-odds to be rid of a player and got good money (despite sell-on-clause) in a market where he wasn't in demand and clubs didn't have ready cash. If you seriously think we would have got more value, commercially or football wise, by keeping hold of him, I'll send a parasol over.

As for this tripe about keeping hold of him until we have a replacement, it simply doesn't work like that - in business or in football, on the whole. Odd times possibly, but more times not.

So, what would your stance be on RSC Philip? Has he a price whereby we'd be passing the Wiskas round?

[thenodrog]

is it particularly sunny in Malta just now? Sunstroke prevalent? Your second sentence isn't correct; once he made it clear he wouldn't be signing the contract (before Ince arrived) Rovers withdrew their contract offer.

While we're at it; your last paragraph seems contradictory - we 'gave in' simply by cashing him in? In what respect did we 'give in'. We got over-the-odds to be rid of a player and got good money (despite sell-on-clause) in a market where he wasn't in demand and clubs didn't have ready cash. If you seriously think we would have got more value, commercially or football wise, by keeping hold of him, I'll send a parasol over.

As for this tripe about keeping hold of him until we have a replacement, it simply doesn't work like that - in business or in football, on the whole. Odd times possibly, but more times not.

So, what would your stance be on RSC Philip? Has he a price whereby we'd be passing the Wiskas round?

I've said for long enough that we need to secure our future in the Prem by being a discovering, developing and selling club. Hughes did it almost to perfection by nearly always using the golden rule of having a better player lined up before he allowed one to leave. Ince (& Williams) simply did not do that this summer.

[American]

I used Barry as an example of a player who was denied his move, after personally attacking MON and attacking the club for not allowing him to leave. He's still there and playing well. Villa are definately better off for having Barry in their side. If Liverpool don't come back in for him, then Barry might be at Villa, playing extremely well for a few years yet.

If we had just simply have let Rocky go, [which is what this discussion was about and is what some people were saying, because "it's no good keeping players who aren't happy"], we wouldn't have even given ourselves a chance of keeping him.

That's where I will stop, all you Paulettes will be glad to know.

I don't think we should simply let him go, but should put a high value on him (30 million sounds about right) and not sell unless that valuation is met.

In a way I agree on your Bentley opinion, even though I disagree. We had to sell him - he was acting petulant and was at his peak value - but we should have had a replacement lined up first.

[sanlorenzo]

Just read article in ABC Color the biggest newspaper in Paraguay. Roque is quoted as saying he is comfortable at Blackburn, not fighting to get out and is familiar with the Man City rumours. He states that his only focus is scoring in every game for his current club, Rovers. So relax and enjoy. He will play tomorrow and will score 2x.

[67splitscreen]

Just read article in ABC Color the biggest newspaper in Paraguay. Roque is quoted as saying he is comfortable at Blackburn, not fighting to get out and is familiar with the Man City rumours. He states that his only focus is scoring in every game for his current club, Rovers. So relax and enjoy. He will play tomorrow and will score 2x.

Thanks for the news, I will for one, but don't think he will score as many this season. I do think he will be a wanted man come January.

[Uxbridge rover]

EXCLUSIVE BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE

By Alan Nixon

Roque Santa Cruz can leave Blackburn Rovers in the transfer window - because he has a fixed fee clause in his contract.

The Paraguayan striker is wanted by old boss Mark Hughes at Manchester City, with both Aston Villa and Tottenham keeping tabs.

According to South American sources, Santa Cruz (pictured) negotiated a release clause when he signed a £60,000-a-week package.

Advertisement

The exact figure is a closely-guarded secret but informed insiders claim it is about £18million - potentially a huge profit for Blackburn, who paid Bayern Munich £3.5m.

That sum reduces the chances of most clubs being able to afford the 27-year-old, who was a first-season sensation at Ewood Park.

City chief Hughes would be prepared to splash out although his bosses may look for him to sign a bigger name.

Villa boss Martin O'Neill is an admirer and could be keen if owner Randy Lerner gives the go-ahead. However, Spurs may struggle to go to that kind of level.

Rovers managed to persuade Santa Cruz to stay last August but he was in a strong position and both sides were happy to put an official price on his head.

Meanwhile, Rovers boss Paul Ince is chasing Argentine midfielder Oscar Ahumada, 26, as he looks to make an emergency signing.

Ince has lost midfielders Steven Reid and David Dunn is also sidelined, leaving him weak in that area.

Scouts have watched River Plate star Ahumada, who is available for about £4m.

The 26-year-old has one previous spell in Europe when he played for Wolfsburg in Germany but that did not work out.

[roversmum]

Aaaarggh. Still annoyed about yesterday, Roque going to City, Villa or Spurs is all I need.

[philipl]

All we can hope for is that a bidding battle develops.

[nicko]

I found this out last week when I was checking into the Roque quotes.

The clause was put in when Roque signed a new deal in August.

I think it is pretty sensible all round...the player has a 'price' so time-wasters need not join the race and the club would be happy to settle for the amount that is written in.

My source reckons it is £18 million or rather close to it. Again that sounds a fair amount as it would represent a large profit.

There is a Manchester City possibility - but January is a long way away and they could get better options.

Villa were and are keen. I think they are a danger if they are chasing the top four and think Roque would make the difference.

Tottenham have an interest and have the dough, but I think this would be too rich for them.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it...the main players in this - Roque and the club - are obviously at ease with the arrangement.

[John]

I am still concerned by Man City, as they may have 'bigger and better' targets, but they will also receive plently of knock backs. Hughes likes working with players he knows well, and Cruz would improve on what they have already got.

I would like to think we will keep Santa until at least the summer though.

[Majiball]

I am still concerned by Man City, as they may have 'bigger and better' targets, but they will also receive plently of knock backs. Hughes likes working with players he knows well, and Cruz would improve on what they have already got.

I would like to think we will keep Santa until at least the summer though.

Didn't that Cook fellow say that he was not keen on Hughes signing within his comfort zone? I can see City looking for a bigger name as has been suggested, and they have Jo who is similar to Roque. Villa would worry me and I am surprised by the price I honestly thought it would be higher above 20M at the minimum. Anyways 18M would buy a lot of players but please not in January I hope the fee has a timescale attached to it say valid after one season or such like.

Anyone got any details on the Argentinian we are being linked to maybe a Utube video?

[thenodrog]

I'm sure their squad would be enhanced but I'm mystified how Villa would see any benefit in replacing Carew with RSC on the pitch?

[T4E]

So what percentage of this £18m will we have to give to Bayern Munich?

[nicko]

So what percentage of this £18m will we have to give to Bayern Munich?

I don't think there is a sell-on clause to eat into the profit.

The good thing is that Man City offered a derisory £8 million when they were playing at it in August.

So now that they - or anyone else - has money it will cost them a serious fee.

There's a lot of things to happen between now and January so I would not fret about this one.

If Roque scores a lot of goals and the magic number is reached, then so be it.

The last time a fixed fee was involved it was with Damien Duff. That move was 'clean' because a club with millions paid for the player without too much hassle.

If City or Villa - probably not Spurs - are prepared to pay the money then the move will happen. But it's still an 'if' at this stage.

[Amo]

My source reckons it is £18 million or rather close to it. Again that sounds a fair amount as it would represent a large profit.

Who's your source? Or rather, how did they come into this information?

I always take sources and insiders with a pinch of salt.

(lol. Sauces. Salt. This stuff writes itself.)

We'd probably have £18m and Ince will still only see 30% of it.

[thenodrog]

I don't think there is a sell-on clause to eat into the profit.

The good thing is that Man City offered a derisory £8 million when they were playing at it in August.

So now that they - or anyone else - has money it will cost them a serious fee.

There's a lot of things to happen between now and January so I would not fret about this one.

If Roque scores a lot of goals and the magic number is reached, then so be it.

The last time a fixed fee was involved it was with Damien Duff. That move was 'clean' because a club with millions paid for the player without too much hassle.

If City or Villa - probably not Spurs - are prepared to pay the money then the move will happen. But it's still an 'if' at this stage.

So basically we'll have sold Hughes's 'finds' Bentley and likely RSC to keep our bandwagon on the road this season, next year I guess it'll likely be Warnock and Samba to fund our Prem existance. Which of Ince's signings will we cash in on the year after? Andrews and Fowler? It'll not even be enough to keep Ince in grey Thunderbird suits!

[nicko]

Who's your source? Or rather, how did they come into this information?

I always take sources and insiders with a pinch of salt.

(lol. Sauces. Salt. This stuff writes itself.)

We'd probably have £18m and Ince will still only see 30% of it.

No names obviously, but somebody in South America I turned to when I was checking info on Roque's signing in the first place...his info was good then and is now.

If there was a sale I think all of the money would go to the manager.

Remember the club should be very solvent at the moment following the summer activity.

[Mozzer]

whose this other guy you have mentioned -argentina midfielder-Oscar Ahumada..

are we looking at another central midfielder?? when dunn and reid come back we will have enough midfielders..

are we still looking for a right winger by the way??

as for santa cruz-would be a blow to lose him-but wonder if he would just look at the likes of bentley, neill, duff and bellamy and think always leaving isnt that greener on the other side..

[47er]

Relying on Reid to come back is a bit risky isn't it?

[Amo]

as for santa cruz-would be a blow to lose him-but wonder if he would just look at the likes of bentley, neill, duff and bellamy and think always leaving isnt that greener on the other side..

Duff won Premiership medals with Chelsea, and Bellamy scored against Barcelona in the CL. Something they wouldn't have done at Blackburn.

[nicko]

whose this other guy you have mentioned -argentina midfielder-Oscar Ahumada..

are we looking at another central midfielder?? when dunn and reid come back we will have enough midfielders..

are we still looking for a right winger by the way??

as for santa cruz-would be a blow to lose him-but wonder if he would just look at the likes of bentley, neill, duff and bellamy and think always leaving isnt that greener on the other side..

Ahumada is a very neat central midfield player. The only worry is that is he is a bit small.

He is definitely being considered, but there will be others.

I think a 'new' Tugay and probably a recognised right winger are the two current priorities...but that can change.

After watching Pennant yesterday I would say that was a lucky escape.

As for Roque, a lot will depend on where Rovers are in January - challenging or treading water...and where the interested parties are too.

It's a long way away yet.

[thenodrog]

Duff won Premiership medals with Chelsea, and Bellamy scored against Barcelona in the CL. Something they wouldn't have done at Blackburn.

Quite true Elijah...... but conversley both ended up with their arses full of splinters from various benches.

As for Roque, a lot will depend on where Rovers are in January - challenging or treading water...and where the interested parties are too.

It's a long way away yet.

You forgot to add 'clutching at straws'.

[RevidgeBlue]

If there was a sale I think all of the money would go to the manager.

Hope you're right nicko, but the Bentley money doesn't seem to have found it's way to the manager does it?.

And your slightly hesitant statement above seems a million miles away from your confident assertion in Jan/Feb there was 10m pre sales available to Mark Hughes.

Not having a go at you, just totally browned off with the Trustees.