[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[Amo]

After watching Pennant yesterday I would say that was a lucky escape.

Didn't Pennant actually assist the winning goal? Not that I rate him or anything.

[thenodrog]

Hope you're right nicko, but the Bentley money doesn't seem to have found it's way to the manager does it?.

And your slightly hesitant statement above seems a million miles away from your confident assertion in Jan/Feb there was 10m pre sales available to Mark Hughes.

Not having a go at you, just totally browned off with the Trustees.

Yeah they should have sold to Williams! ..... btw Anybody know how the USA property market and the house building in Gambia is going on in the current credit crunch?

[RibbleValleyRover]

The usual will happen, we sell one of our best players and the manager won't either see a penny of it or if he does it will be a small fraction of it.

Unless Ince spends quite a bit of cash in January (ignoring any money from Roque’s possible transfer) it will be clear in my mind that the Bentley money has disappeared.

[DingleBaiter]

I don't think there is a sell-on clause to eat into the profit.

The good thing is that Man City offered a derisory £8 million when they were playing at it in August.

So now that they - or anyone else - has money it will cost them a serious fee.

There's a lot of things to happen between now and January so I would not fret about this one.

If Roque scores a lot of goals and the magic number is reached, then so be it.

The last time a fixed fee was involved it was with Damien Duff. That move was 'clean' because a club with millions paid for the player without too much hassle.

If City or Villa - probably not Spurs - are prepared to pay the money then the move will happen. But it's still an 'if' at this stage.

Well done Nicko on another find. Do so prefer reading your posts on here, you write in a less-tabloid TOV and it's far more amenable (and often reassuring) especially when your editor would probably rather send you for sources on Guy Ritchie & Madonna

Wasn't it a fixed fee/named price when we sold Bellers the goblin? As we had a sell-on clause before MGP renewed his contract/changed his name/car, I'm hopeful we've got one now for him. However, find it unlikely that whatever it is, the clubs likely to be daft enough to sign him could afford it.

As you say, I think it's all good with the latest Roque news - well done!

[philipl]

Hope you're right nicko, but the Bentley money doesn't seem to have found it's way to the manager does it?.

And your slightly hesitant statement above seems a million miles away from your confident assertion in Jan/Feb there was 10m pre sales available to Mark Hughes.

Not having a go at you, just totally browned off with the Trustees.

Ince was given the money and then shocked everybody by proving totally incapable of spending it.

This is what terrifies me about the prospect of RSC going. I like the way Ince is setting up his teams and the football he has got them playing (especially the Tugay renaissance) but he doesn't seem to know his backside from his elbow in the Premier League transfer market.

[dr_awol]

Ince was given the money and then shocked everybody by proving totally incapable of spending it.

This is what terrifies me about the prospect of RSC going. I like the way Ince is setting up his teams and the football he has got them playing (especially the Tugay renaissance) but he doesn't seem to know his backside from his elbow in the Premier League transfer market.

Maybe Ince has spent the last few months learning his backside from his elbow, in the next transfer window he will know where to patch up.

[nicko]

ON MONEY BEING AVAILABLE...I think there was in August but a feeling that there was no point in spending for the sake of spending - plus a new manager needs time to see what he REALLY needs.

ON BELLAMY'S PRICE CLAUSE...Good spot, that was correct.

ON PENNANT...80-odd mintes of disinterest and one cross. You could do better.

[JAL]

Ince was given the money and then shocked everybody by proving totally incapable of spending it.

This is what terrifies me about the prospect of RSC going. I like the way Ince is setting up his teams and the football he has got them playing (especially the Tugay renaissance) but he doesn't seem to know his backside from his elbow in the Premier League transfer market.

With you all the way on this philipl, Ince has blown £10m on complete mediocrity it doesnt give you much confidence in him for bringing in quality players or is it he thinks he still needs another goalkeeper.

I think the patience of the crowd will be wearing thin if improvements on the pitch arent made come February time.

[roversmum]

This whole season will be a learning curve for Ince to be truthful. As I said in the Bolton thread, Morten probably knows more about how to play Bolton than Ince. That is my main worry. Once he has sussed out how the land lies I'm sure he will be up to the task and we will be seeing plenty of Incepiration. I certainly hope so as I'm not very Incepired at the moment.

[DingleBaiter]

With you all the way on this philipl, Ince has blown £10m on complete mediocrity it doesnt give you much confidence in him for bringing in quality players or is it he thinks he still needs another goalkeeper.

I think the patience of the crowd will be wearing thin if improvements on the pitch arent made come February time.

For such a conspiracist as you seem to be, I'd have thought you would have used your calculator before posting. Even at a cursory tot-up, I can't see how you get anywhere near the amount of £10 million, other than for hyperbole to suit your negativity.

I know the Euro's dropped, but 4.2 mill euros for Grella, 1 mill (net) for Robbbo, scratch 3/4 mill for Andrews, zilch for Fowler, loan for Villa, loan for Simpson.

Best you have a word with Gordon about the virtues of our academic system, see if it's worth back going to school.

Good to see your hedging your bets and not judging anyone too soon with your 'complete mediocrity' assessment either.

[Frisky Jim]

Roque has a fixed priced in his contract? There's a surprise.

Well done, Williams.

[Amo]

A fixed price makes sense. We all know Roque would jump at the chance of playing for a bigger club. This way both he and the club are decided on how much he'll leave for, and Roque can't argue when the club rejects anything lower than £18m.

[thenodrog]

I think the patience of the crowd will be wearing thin if improvements on the pitch arent made come February time.

Might not be that long. I'm told the substitution of Carlos with Derbs whilst leaving Fowler on was greeted by a chant of 'You don't know what you are doing'.

Best you have a word with Gordon about the virtues of our academic system, see if it's worth back going to school.

Priceless DB.

[T4E]

I can't get on board with this fixed price being a good thing. How is it a good thing? We can easily fix a players price without being contractually bound to it - we just make it abundantly clear that we wont sell below £18m (or whatever the price may be). All we've done here is limit what we can get for him, because we will have to let him talk to teams once that figure is met. How on Earth does that make sense? What if he scores 30 goals this season? Fixing his price wont seem so clever then, will it?

[thenodrog]

I can't get on board with this fixed price being a good thing. How is it a good thing? We can easily fix a players price without being contractually bound to it - we just make it abundantly clear that we wont sell below £18m (or whatever the price may be). All we've done here is limit what we can get for him, because we will have to let him talk to teams once that figure is met. How on Earth does that make sense? What if he scores 30 goals this season? Fixing his price wont seem so clever then, will it?

I think his value is linked to his salary nowadays. If we say that he is worth 30m for example then his agent wants him paying like he is worth 30m. It's a compromise situation.

[Bobby G]

Sick and tired of this and our big players.

Whats the point. They all leave us the same way.

[Mr Creosote]

With you all the way on this philipl, Ince has blown £10m on complete mediocrity it doesnt give you much confidence in him for bringing in quality players or is it he thinks he still needs another goalkeeper.

I think the patience of the crowd will be wearing thin if improvements on the pitch arent made come February time.

This is a thread about RSC you mug.

You could bore for England.

[JAL]

For such a conspiracist as you seem to be, I'd have thought you would have used your calculator before posting. Even at a cursory tot-up, I can't see how you get anywhere near the amount of £10 million, other than for hyperbole to suit your negativity.

I know the Euro's dropped, but 4.2 mill euros for Grella, 1 mill (net) for Robbbo, scratch 3/4 mill for Andrews, zilch for Fowler, loan for Villa, loan for Simpson.

Best you have a word with Gordon about the virtues of our academic system, see if it's worth back going to school.

Good to see your hedging your bets and not judging anyone too soon with your 'complete mediocrity' assessment either.

I've read it was around £3.5m for Robinson, £3.3m for Gorilla, £1.3m for Julie Andrews, 600k down payment for Simpson and potentially £5m for Carlos.

How much for Bunn from Northampton the undisclosed fee we dont really know about. Dont forget well past his sell by date Robbie Howler is pulling a good wage out of the club for his non productive services to the club.

Some of it has been paid some has been recouped to offset the initial outlay but he end outcome for me is I SEE MEDIOCRITY ON THE FIELD OF PLAY whichever way you want to bull it up theres nothing to convince me whatsoever things are going to improve short term.

Recycling players and improving Rovers first team is what Ince is charged with, so far hes not done a very good job. Argue all you want Ince is supposed to be an experienced ex international player who should know what it takes to compete at this level so far the perfomances of Rovers are not showing this.

[gumboots]

I've read it was around £3.5m for Robinson, £3.3m for Gorilla, £1.3m for Julie Andrews, 600k down payment for Simpson and potentially £5m for Carlos.

How much for Bunn from Northampton the undisclosed fee we dont really know about. Dont forget well past his sell by date Robbie Howler is pulling a good wage out of the club for his non productive services to the club.

Some of it has been paid some has been recouped to offset the initial outlay but he end outcome for me is I SEE MEDIOCRITY ON THE FIELD OF PLAY whichever way you want to bull it up theres nothing to convince me whatsoever things are going to improve short term.

Recycling players and improving Rovers first team is what Ince is charged with, so far hes not done a very good job. Argue all you want Ince is supposed to be an experienced ex international player who should know what it takes to compete at this level the perfomances are not showing this.

I don't think there was anything in Ince's contract that said he had to improve us in the first few weeks of the season. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of it but I think if there had been some enterprising journalist would have told us so. He has already brought through into the first team some of the young players Hughes would never have taken a chance on but to be fair to him he's rarely had the players for more than a couple of weeks at a time to do any work with them. These international breaks must be particularly disruptive for new managers like Ince. Things may improve; they may not in which case it will be time to look at changing our manager if necessary. In the meantime I can't see the point in whingeing permanently about Ince and using every mistake to try to prove the point that he's no good.

[Amo]

We're what, mid-table right now? Ince is still finding his feet with his modus operandi, and we could be a far worse situation to be going through a learning curve. We're not languishing at the foot of the table like so-called giants Spurs and Newcastle. We're just doing...okay without stepping up a gear. Hopefully as Ince assesses his squad and works with the team, he'll start to imprint his style on the club and get us fighting a top six finish again. That's all we can hope for.

[T4E]

I think his value is linked to his salary nowadays. If we say that he is worth 30m for example then his agent wants him paying like he is worth 30m. It's a compromise situation.

That's only relevant when we come to sell - we don't have to talk to anyone about his worth at least until a transfer window is open, at which point the last thing his agent will be talking about will be a new improved contract with us.

I don't understand why we felt the need to draw this line in the sand.

[BuckyRover]

The only reason I can think of is if he had a lower minimum fee release clause before.

[DingleBaiter]

Might not be that long. I'm told the substitution of Carlos with Derbs whilst leaving Fowler on was greeted by a chant of 'You don't know what you are doing'.

Priceless DB.

hooked - it's my own way of knowing you read it G

[JAL]

I don't think there was anything in Ince's contract that said he had to improve us in the first few weeks of the season. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of it but I think if there had been some enterprising journalist would have told us so. He has already brought through into the first team some of the young players Hughes would never have taken a chance on but to be fair to him he's rarely had the players for more than a couple of weeks at a time to do any work with them. These international breaks must be particularly disruptive for new managers like Ince. Things may improve; they may not in which case it will be time to look at changing our manager if necessary. In the meantime I can't see the point in whingeing permanently about Ince and using every mistake to try to prove the point that he's no good.

Understand your viewpoint gumboots, but as a Rovers fan we dont have a great deal of money to blow so every signing is crucial to our club this is why I'm critical. Ince is experienced enough to know what it takes for success for me hes not showing it at this moment in time especially with his signings though I reserve judgement on Carlos.

[DingleBaiter]

Understand your viewpoint gumboots, but as a Rovers fan we dont have a great deal of money to blow so every signing is crucial to our club this is why I'm critical. Ince is experienced enough to know what it takes for success for me hes not showing it at this moment in time especially with his signings though I reserve judgement on Carlos.

Cake? Want it? Eat it?

First you drum up a fictitious figure to add emphasis to a weak initial argument. Then you cast in a presumptuous sweeping statement about buying mediocrity, including judging a player that's only played 45 mins who (seemingly in hindsight) was either unfit, unprepared, or had a latent injury. Then you add in a few riders, guesses and conjecture to try to give your argument legs. As average as Andrews may prove to be, he's nowhere near as bad as folks (who'd probably never even seen him play) were carping on about.

Then, you want to reserve judgement (i.e. exclude from the argument) the player that looks most likely to be a decent signing.

As if all this isn't fuzzy enough, in one breath you say we can't waste any money whilst you're also giving Ince pelters for not signing whoever you deem to be good enough. No doubt, if Ince had bought a right winger in of some description, you'd then have the gall to be long-sighted enough to wait for said player to tank and accuse him of wasting the money.

Allah forbid we sign someone decent in January, I dread to think what inconsistent argument you'd plump for then.

Does anything at all in life give you any shred of happiness or positivity? It's like 'the painters are in' non-stop with you?