[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[RevidgeBlue]

According to this morning's LT there is no truth whatsoever in nicko's story yesterday that Roque has a clause in his new contract allowing him to leave for 18m or indeed any other specifc amount.

Over to you nicko...............................

[Billy Castell]

Allah forbid we sign someone decent in January, I dread to think what inconsistent argument you'd plump for then.

The fee would be wrong, should have bought them in the summer, their eyes are too close together........................

[T4E]

According to this morning's LT there is no truth whatsoever in nicko's story yesterday that Roque has a clause in his new contract allowing him to leave for 18m or indeed any other specifc amount.

Over to you nicko...............................

# Arrrrrrrrrre you Bellamy in disguise? #

[JAL]

Cake? Want it? Eat it?

First you drum up a fictitious figure to add emphasis to a weak initial argument. Then you cast in a presumptuous sweeping statement about buying mediocrity, including judging a player that's only played 45 mins who (seemingly in hindsight) was either unfit, unprepared, or had a latent injury. Then you add in a few riders, guesses and conjecture to try to give your argument legs. As average as Andrews may prove to be, he's nowhere near as bad as folks (who'd probably never even seen him play) were carping on about.

Then, you want to reserve judgement (i.e. exclude from the argument) the player that looks most likely to be a decent signing.

As if all this isn't fuzzy enough, in one breath you say we can't waste any money whilst you're also giving Ince pelters for not signing whoever you deem to be good enough. No doubt, if Ince had bought a right winger in of some description, you'd then have the gall to be long-sighted enough to wait for said player to tank and accuse him of wasting the money.

Allah forbid we sign someone decent in January, I dread to think what inconsistent argument you'd plump for then.

Does anything at all in life give you any shred of happiness or positivity? It's like 'the painters are in' non-stop with you?

I go to watch the game on saturday knowing that the team has had ALL WEEK TO PREPARE AND DELIVER A GOOD PERFORMANCE thats all the time needed, you either have it or you dont simple as. Dont come the give him time nonesense when they are a group of highly experienced managers in Ince,Mathias, Knoxx.

I've enough experience in me to know when the management team are taking us in the right direction or not, at this moment in time were heading the wrong way.

A.Concerned.

[nicko]

According to this morning's LT there is no truth whatsoever in nicko's story yesterday that Roque has a clause in his new contract allowing him to leave for 18m or indeed any other specifc amount.

Over to you nicko...............................

I know there is. I could go further, but at this stage I will bite my tongue.

[gumboots]

I go to watch the game on saturday knowing that the team has had ALL WEEK TO PREPARE AND DELIVER A GOOD PERFORMANCE thats all the time needed, you either have it or you dont simple as. Dont come the give him time nonesense when they are a group of highly experienced managers in Ince,Mathias, Knoxx.

I've enough experience in me to know when the management team are taking us in the right direction or not, at this moment in time were heading the wrong way.

A.Concerned.

and what week did they have before Saturday's performance? Loads of players away, even those who did not play for their countries were included in squads. emerton off with the Aussies (always a lot of travelling involved there) McCarthy getting back Saturday lunchtime;Morten off with Norway;Derbyshire off with the U21s and probably others elsewhere too. So this Saturday they haven't had a weekto prepare and far too many weekends they haven't either. this is the most stop start start to a season I can think of and we have a new maangement team. that's why we say it takes time.

[ABBEY]

so international breaks only effect us?

[BRFC95]

I've enough experience in me

You've enough bullshit

[47er]

Understand your viewpoint gumboots, but as a Rovers fan we dont have a great deal of money to blow so every signing is crucial to our club this is why I'm critical. Ince is experienced enough to know what it takes for success for me hes not showing it at this moment in time especially with his signings though I reserve judgement on Carlos.

What about Robinson? Surely Ince did well there?

[gumboots]

so international breaks only effect us?

No they don't, but the argument was that we had had a week's training to get it right and we hadn't. In McCarthys' case he'd had about time to warm up. Also the longer you've been at a club the less the breaks should affect you as you know your players, bar the new ones, better. You know that there are players like emerton who seem to suffer hardly at all from all that travelling and you know that there are others who take a few days to get it out of their system.

[Hughesy]

Nicko - do you know what happened with all our summer budget? Has it been banked for future or has it all been spent? What did the clause end up being on the Bentley sell-on, much lower than the 50%?

Roque wont be going anywhere - if he does we must re-invest £20m in two top quality players.

Nicko - do you know what happened with all our summer budget? Has it been banked for future or has it all been spent? What did the clause end up being on the Bentley sell-on, much lower than the 50%?

Roque wont be going anywhere - if he does we must re-invest £20m in two top quality players.

[dring1]

if roque is not sold in january do you know how much cash we have to spend in january nicko. i know we have carlos to think about as that deal can only happen that month according to the chairman.

[nicko]

Nicko - do you know what happened with all our summer budget? Has it been banked for future or has it all been spent? What did the clause end up being on the Bentley sell-on, much lower than the 50%?

Roque wont be going anywhere - if he does we must re-invest £20m in two top quality players.

I don't think there was ever a question of money being kept back from the manager - it was there to be spent but the feeling was there was no point in wasting it or over-paying for ordinary players.

If Sparky had stayed I think he would have spent because he knew what was needed and had files on those he was watching.

That isn't a criticism of Paul Ince, it's just a fact. He admitted he was new to the job of signing players for this level and wanted more time to assess what he had...which is fair enough.

I don't think there wil be any worries about having money in January - but it will probably come down to what position the club is in.

If there is an improvement is results it would probably mean a player to help a push for Europe.

If it is looking like mid-table then there might be a signing for the future.

If Rovers drop into the bottom six then there will be an almighty panic.

That's the beauty of football...it's down to results.

[JAL]

and what week did they have before Saturday's performance? Loads of players away, even those who did not play for their countries were included in squads. emerton off with the Aussies (always a lot of travelling involved there) McCarthy getting back Saturday lunchtime;Morten off with Norway;Derbyshire off with the U21s and probably others elsewhere too. So this Saturday they haven't had a weekto prepare and far too many weekends they haven't either. this is the most stop start start to a season I can think of and we have a new maangement team. that's why we say it takes time.

Granted last week was disrupted but most of the other games havent been, I'm yet to see a decent overall performance.

The players Ince has brought in arent anything better than what we had and they arent going to get any better so were do Rovers go from here, a few quality signings in January could change the outlook completely but for now ...we persevere with the cup definitely half empty looking suspiciously like it could empty more. Ince has the opportunity to fill that cup up come January- his last chance for me.

[DingleBaiter]

Granted last week was disrupted but most of the other games havent been, I'm yet to see a decent overall performance.

The players Ince has brought in arent anything better than what we had and they arent going to get any better so were do Rovers go from here, a few quality signings in January could change the outlook completely but for now ...we persevere with the cup definitely half empty looking suspiciously like it could empty more. Ince has the opportunity to fill that cup up come January- his last chance for me.

The thing is JAL, you're not even close to being a 'cup half empty' guy. More like a 'just drank the contents of my grandmothers bedpan thinking it was lemon juice' guy

BTW, where exactly did you get Ince's job spec from that you quoted previously, or was that another JAL-world product?

[JAL]

What about Robinson? Surely Ince did well there?

The best of the lot but no better than Brad.

[JAL]

The thing is JAL, you're not even close to being a 'cup half empty' guy. More like a 'just drank the contents of my grandmothers bedpan thinking it was lemon juice' guy

BTW, where exactly did you get Ince's job spec from that you quoted previously, or was that another JAL-world product?

OK if i'm wrong what was Inces remit this season to take us backwards as success is an unachievable goal is that it!

Do share your thoughts on what is expected of Paul Ince this season seem to remember John Williams expecting the same again or more.

[waggy]

I found this out last week when I was checking into the Roque quotes.

The clause was put in when Roque signed a new deal in August.

I think it is pretty sensible all round...the player has a 'price' so time-wasters need not join the race and the club would be happy to settle for the amount that is written in.

My source reckons it is £18 million or rather close to it. Again that sounds a fair amount as it would represent a large profit.

There is a Manchester City possibility - but January is a long way away and they could get better options.

Villa were and are keen. I think they are a danger if they are chasing the top four and think Roque would make the difference.

Tottenham have an interest and have the dough, but I think this would be too rich for them.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it...the main players in this - Roque and the club - are obviously at ease with the arrangement.

the ###### stirrer that is nicko is back,i thought he would be banned by now,did the club not refute this

[waggy]

The best of the lot but no better than Brad.

better by far,friedal is useless

[DingleBaiter]

OK if i'm wrong what was Inces remit this season to take us backwards as success is an unachievable goal is that it!

Do share your thoughts on what is expected of Paul Ince this season seem to remember John Williams expecting the same again or more.

What you quoted was by no means an objective of Ince's employment, more like a by-product or a means. HOW Ince does what is expected of him is arguably academic, unless people aren't judged by measurables in JAL-world?

To explain, how Ince gets what is expected of him is far less of an issue than if he does it or not. Agreed?

The fact that you may not like how he is going about it is inconsequential in the scheme of things. Even if you don't think he will succeed, I'd suggest that you're hardly objective and positive to start with. No matter how much you know - or think you know - 'within the club', Ince (happily) will be judge by clear, level-headed, reasonable criteria, which probably precludes you from suggesting any of them?

What is 'expected' and what is 'acceptable' may not be the same thing. To explain, you expect Ince to flounder. However if he proves to be anything like as successful as his predecessors, you would struggle to find that acceptable IMO.

BTW - if I admit to being JW, will you admit to being BEAMO?

[AndyC]

OK if i'm wrong what was Inces remit this season to take us backwards as success is an unachievable goal is that it!

Do share your thoughts on what is expected of Paul Ince this season seem to remember John Williams expecting the same again or more.

with the club having yet again spent virtually nothing, i'd be surprised if the board expected Ince to come in and get a 7th placed finish again, when clubs such as Man City and Spurs spent crazy money. Granted, spurs is going tits up at the moment, but I would have thought Inces remit had more to do with consolidating our position in the top 10 and bringing some of the youth through, whilst over the course of the season, start to change the way we play football to a more attacking style.

time will tell whether he can deliver, but the only thing most people object with you jal, is your sad way in which you don't want to try and give him your support, when he and the club needs it most.

[BuckyRover]

It's very sad.

If the worst happens (which I don't think it will) and Ince turns out not to be good enough, at least I will be able to hold my head up high and say I did my best.

A lot of people on this board should be ashamed of themselves. Quite a lot of them cannot, in any way, be described as supporters.

[waggy]

like a said in the bolton thread,you can pay 11 million and get a poor player aka lotnob,or you can get free transfers and get poor players aka fowler

[JAL]

What you quoted was by no means an objective of Ince's employment, more like a by-product or a means. HOW Ince does what is expected of him is arguably academic, unless people aren't judged by measurables in JAL-world?

To explain, how Ince gets what is expected of him is far less of an issue than if he does it or not. Agreed?

The fact that you may not like how he is going about it is inconsequential in the scheme of things. Even if you don't think he will succeed, I'd suggest that you're hardly objective and positive to start with. No matter how much you know - or think you know - 'within the club', Ince (happily) will be judge by clear, level-headed, reasonable criteria, which probably precludes you from suggesting any of them?

What is 'expected' and what is 'acceptable' may not be the same thing. To explain, you expect Ince to flounder. However if he proves to be anything like as successful as his predecessors, you would struggle to find that acceptable IMO.

BTW - if I admit to being JW, will you admit to being BEAMO?

A lot of drivel in there DingleBaiter masking over your answer whilst attacking me, I'll ask again, what is expected from Ince and Rovers what is it thats expected of him and the team there thats three times now please respond with something concrete not an attack on me imagine if one of your favourite posters had asked you the same question. thank you.

[DingleBaiter]

A lot of drivel in there DingleBaiter masking over your answer whilst attacking me, I'll ask again, what is expected from Ince and Rovers what is it thats expected of him and the team there thats three times now please respond with something concrete not an attack on me imagine if one of your favourite posters had asked you the same question. thank you.

My objectives I would judge Ince on this season.

1. Not to be relegated.

2. Not to compromise our ideals as a club as a whole, not based on a previous manager that exceeded anyone's realistic expectations.

3. To align himself with the club's focus (as well documented as that is) regarding the overhaul of the Academy.

What I would judge the board on.

1. Holding their nerve and ignoring the misery-guts pitchforkers.

2. To keep their end of the bargain in ensuring Allardyce is kept out of gainful employment.

What I expect?

Consolidation. In the scheme of things - a step backwards this season is realistic, with the focus on future steady growth. I'd happily settle for a Top Ten place. Europe would be nice, but a distinct bonus seeing the previous incumbent, for all his legendary esteem, flunked both cups and blew his get-out-of-jail card into Intertoto last season while overseeing some reckless, inconsistent, stultifying performances no worse than what we've experienced thus far IMO.

As for your points about recruitment, I don't care if he gets his old Romford pub side out for us - if that's what it takes to achieve the above. Results business, old chap.