[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[ABBEY]

It's very sad.

If the worst happens (which I don't think it will) and Ince turns out not to be good enough, at least I will be able to hold my head up high and say I did my best.

A lot of people on this board should be ashamed of themselves. Quite a lot of them cannot, in any way, be described as supporters.

describe" A supporter "

[JAL]

with the club having yet again spent virtually nothing, i'd be surprised if the board expected Ince to come in and get a 7th placed finish again, when clubs such as Man City and Spurs spent crazy money. Granted, spurs is going tits up at the moment, but I would have thought Inces remit had more to do with consolidating our position in the top 10 and bringing some of the youth through, whilst over the course of the season, start to change the way we play football to a more attacking style.

time will tell whether he can deliver, but the only thing most people object with you jal, is your sad way in which you don't want to try and give him your support, when he and the club needs it most.

Cheers AndyC, dont worry come saturday i'll be chanting Paul Inces blue and white army in the riverside louder than most, but this messageboard is a great opportunity to debate with other fellow supporters through personal reflection praising, criticising whatever.

But Andy I ask have we not always played attacking football when we can, what is all this about attacking football being a new concept to Blackburn Rovers what is it ?change to an attacking style ? Eh !!!!! I just dont get it !

The strength of the team over the opposite team dictates wether you can attack or not is that not the case ? Thats why I dont see Inces new players making us a stronger team hence the criticism, do you?

[roverfanuk]

Am i the only one that thinks £18 million is a bit low for a striker that has been as good (IMO) a striker who went for £30.75 million? (Berbatov)

Roque Stats:

25 goals and 9 assists in 49 games; compared too:

Berbatov Stats:

46 goals in 102 games?

Surely, we should be looking for a similar fee?

[JAL]

My objectives I would judge Ince on this season.

1. Not to be relegated.

2. Not to compromise our ideals as a club as a whole, not based on a previous manager that exceeded anyone's realistic expectations.

3. To align himself with the club's focus (as well documented as that is) regarding the overhaul of the Academy.

What I would judge the board on.

1. Holding their nerve and ignoring the misery-guts pitchforkers.

2. To keep their end of the bargain in ensuring Allardyce is kept out of gainful employment.

What I expect?

Consolidation. In the scheme of things - a step backwards this season is realistic, with the focus on future steady growth. I'd happily settle for a Top Ten place. Europe would be nice, but a distinct bonus seeing the previous incumbent, for all his legendary esteem, flunked both cups and blew his get-out-of-jail card into Intertoto last season while overseeing some reckless, inconsistent, stultifying performances no worse than what we've experienced thus far IMO.

As for your points about recruitment, I don't care if he gets his old Romford pub side out for us - if that's what it takes to achieve the above. Results business, old chap.

Thank you DingleBaiter, good balanced realistic opinions but would that keep the Ewood faithful coming down to cheer on the Rovers long term.

[gumboots]

Am i the only one that thinks £18 million is a bit low for a striker that has been as good (IMO) a striker who went for £30.75 million? (Berbatov)

Roque Stats:

25 goals and 9 assists in 49 games; compared too:

Berbatov Stats:

46 goals in 102 games?

Surely, we should be looking for a similar fee?

You don't always get a choice like that. You want new contract signed you negotiate the contents with the player. If you set the fee too high you're effectively saying he's going nowhere and he doesn't sign. Advantage is always with good players. to get their signature you sometimes have to give away more than you want to.

[DingleBaiter]

Cheers AndyC, dont worry come saturday i'll be chanting Paul Inces blue and white army in the riverside louder than most, but this messageboard is a great opportunity to debate with other fellow supporters through personal reflection praising, criticising whatever.

But Andy we've aways played attacking football when we can, what is all this about attacking football being a new concept to Blackburn Rovers what is it ?change to an attacking style ? Eh !!!!!

The strength of the team over the opposite team dictates wether you can attack or not is that not the case ? Thats why I dont see Inces new players making us a stronger team hence the criticism, do you?

Tend to agree with you here JAL (hope you're not shocked!)

"attacking football' is a misnomer. I'd rather see competent than naive football. If the Newcastle side under Keegan in 95/96 was a model of attacking football, we're doomed. Whilst not wanting to revert to anti-football or 'catenaccio' type defense, we must find a balance.

As for the last sentence - 100% correct. As Mr Shankly frankly said, any team is only as good as the other team lets them play.

Tactically, the Arsenal & United tactics showed the difference between PI & MH. The Taffia would have put sides out not to be beaten, worked them, hustled them, and tried to upset them. Ince sent out a team that had forgot how to defend in the former and forgot Plan B onwards against United.

Tactics, and coaching, when done right, can have such an effect. Witness Don Fabio with England, at least he always seems to know how to change things when they don't work - which TBH has been a failing of most of our recent managers.

[gumboots]

Thank you DingleBaiter, good balanced realistic opinions but would that keep the Ewood faithful coming down to cheer on the Rovers long term.

If they are the faithful, it should, for the next season at least. It probably wouldn't attract many new faces but what does?

[DingleBaiter]

Thank you DingleBaiter, good balanced realistic opinions but would that keep the Ewood faithful coming down to cheer on the Rovers long term.

Who cares? Only one person going down matters in my book, can't be considering the rest of the nutters, too much else to worry about

I doubt anything, not even chance of rumpy pumpy with Megan Fox & Charlize Theron behind the Riverside every game, would influence the Ewood faithful one iota - that's the Devils Own job

Rovers fans love finding something else to moan about - like the 27 season tickets returned to the ticket office by lunchtime on the day Bellamy left.

PS. Cheers for acknowledging the potential for change from drivel to 'good balanced realistic opinions' in one thread. Let's hope you acknowledge the same potential for improvement in your support of Ince ;-) ;-) ;-)

[DingleBaiter]

the ###### stirrer that is nicko is back,i thought he would be banned by now,did the club not refute this

Okay, time for some balanced petty cynicism.

The article in the LT reads

"The Lancashire Telegraph can reveal – contrary to a claim in a Sunday newspaper – there is NO clause in the Paraguayan's contract giving him licence to leave before his four-year deal expires in 2012 – if bids exceed a certain amount."

My query to this would be - what if a bids MATCH a certain amount? Okay, grammatically it's clutching, but given the ham-firsted way the club deals with it's PR, it could just be a carefully worded plugged article. Then again, it's probably giving them too much credit

Wigan thought they were safe when they put a clause in Ellington's contract with a 3 million tag on him, more than they felt anyone would pay. However, they slipped up somewhat in allowing the clause to stipulate they MUST consider offers OVER that amount; West Brom bid £3million and ONE pound - and he went.

The thing with escape clauses, as with any contract, it needs both parties to agree to them. On the whole, I think they're a good thing although sometimes hindsight does prove them to be fallible. The Pedersen situation shows that really, providing the clubs are happy with the amount, they're a safeguard more than anything. I can't see anyone invoking MGP's trigger fee, given the amount clubs were sniffing around at when he signed it.

Let's not forget RSC, for all his strengths and value to us, has a poor injury record. As with most of MH's close season striker signings, it was a calculated gamble that worked. To recoup the sort of money that's been mooted would be good business (at face value - regardless of subsequent replacement from Mk Dons).

[imy9]

My objectives I would judge Ince on this season.

1. Not to be relegated.

2. Not to compromise our ideals as a club as a whole, not based on a previous manager that exceeded anyone's realistic expectations.

3. To align himself with the club's focus (as well documented as that is) regarding the overhaul of the Academy.

What I would judge the board on.

1. Holding their nerve and ignoring the misery-guts pitchforkers.

2. To keep their end of the bargain in ensuring Allardyce is kept out of gainful employment.

What I expect?

Consolidation. In the scheme of things - a step backwards this season is realistic, with the focus on future steady growth. I'd happily settle for a Top Ten place. Europe would be nice, but a distinct bonus seeing the previous incumbent, for all his legendary esteem, flunked both cups and blew his get-out-of-jail card into Intertoto last season while overseeing some reckless, inconsistent, stultifying performances no worse than what we've experienced thus far IMO.

As for your points about recruitment, I don't care if he gets his old Romford pub side out for us - if that's what it takes to achieve the above. Results business, old chap.

Superb post, I agree 100%.

[philipl]

Sorry, disagree on objectives.

If we slip down into the bottom half our ability to attract the quality of players like Benni and RSC will be fatally compromised and I don't believe for a moment that Ince has the strength of persuasion and personality to say come and join ME that Mark Hughes has.

I would also expect the Board to act decisively on its own judgement if they feel that things are not working as they should be.

Anyway, here is the LT denial of the nicko story.

[Bobby G]

LT, JW, or whomever can say what they want to say but I am pretty certain there must be a clause integrated, just as had been with Bellamy and just as we had with Bentley in another form. Wouldnt expect the chairman to come out and say we have a clause and a fixed price for our star striker this early in the season...

[thenodrog]

But Andy I ask have we not always played attacking football when we can, what is all this about attacking football being a new concept to Blackburn Rovers what is it ?change to an attacking style ? Eh !!!!! I just dont get it !

The strength of the team over the opposite team dictates wether you can attack or not is that not the case ? Thats why I dont see Inces new players making us a stronger team hence the criticism, do you?

I dont get this current and seemingly growing myth that somehow we are more attacking under Ince than Hughes either Jal. It's well bloody weird. Chinese whispers or what? Last season our Prem record showed that we had scored 16 and let in 8 by this same week thats a gd of +8. This season we've scored half as many goals 8 and let in almost twice as many 14 giving a goal difference of -6! A massive 14 goals to the bad! 9 games 21 points v 8 games with 11 points. That is plain FACT! So if thats attacking football then you can bloody well keep it.

Time for a few to take a rain check, look at themselves in a mirror and take heed of the old adage .... WHAT CAN'T SPEAK CAN'T LIE'! So lets put a stop to this nonsense right now.

[philipl]

I dont get this current and seemingly growing myth that somehow we are more attacking under Ince than Hughes either Jal. It's well bloody weird. Chinese whispers or what? Last season our Prem record showed that we had scored 16 and let in 8 by this same week thats a gd of +8. This season we've scored half as many goals 8 and let in almost twice as many 14 giving a goal difference of -6! A massive 14 goals to the bad! 9 games 21 points v 8 games with 11 points. That is plain FACT! So if thats attacking football then you can bloody well keep it.

Time for a few to take a rain check, look at themselves in a mirror and take heed of the old adage .... WHAT CAN'T SPEAK CAN'T LIE'! So lets put a stop to this nonsense right now.

Very simplistic stuff that. Who were the comparative first eight fixtures against?

We have not had last year's top two scorers (RSC and Benni) available because of injury in about half this season's first eight fixtures.

In fairness we started last season really well but the turgid stuff followed. I think it is pretty clearly visible that Rovers are passing the ball better and playing with greater fluidity box-to-box than most games last season.

The huge gap compared with last season is Bentley. You don't lose the Premier League's best crosser, one of the top five scoring chance creators and top five successful pass makers (if I remember Opta stats correctly from last season) and avoid blunting your goal threat.

[roverfanuk]

No Santa Clause!: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...icle1834103.ece

[thenodrog]

Very simplistic stuff that. Who were the comparative first eight fixtures against?

We have not had last year's top two scorers (RSC and Benni) available because of injury in about half this season's first eight fixtures.

In fairness we started last season really well but the turgid stuff followed. I think it is pretty clearly visible that Rovers are passing the ball better and playing with greater fluidity box-to-box than most games last season.

The huge gap compared with last season is Bentley. You don't lose the Premier League's best crosser, one of the top five scoring chance creators and top five successful pass makers (if I remember Opta stats correctly from last season) and avoid blunting your goal threat.

Rubbish! In one bloody game only! Everton away.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/bla...ults/2007-2008/

Anyway EiT started it.

[rovers_rob]

Aston Villa boss Martin O'Neill plans to use Marlon Harewood as bait to land RSC

no thanks !!

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Aston Villa boss Martin O'Neill plans to use Marlon Harewood as bait to land RSC

no thanks !!

you've got to be joking

[Hughesy]

Marlon Harewood?? Oh my god, Jason Roberts mark 2 - No thanks Martin!

[American Rover12]

That's just ridiculous. AV can have him for

a. £30m

b. £33m and Marlon

Silly really.

[joey_big_nose]

I dont get this current and seemingly growing myth that somehow we are more attacking under Ince than Hughes either Jal. It's well bloody weird. Chinese whispers or what? Last season our Prem record showed that we had scored 16 and let in 8 by this same week thats a gd of +8. This season we've scored half as many goals 8 and let in almost twice as many 14 giving a goal difference of -6! A massive 14 goals to the bad! 9 games 21 points v 8 games with 11 points. That is plain FACT! So if thats attacking football then you can bloody well keep it.

Time for a few to take a rain check, look at themselves in a mirror and take heed of the old adage .... WHAT CAN'T SPEAK CAN'T LIE'! So lets put a stop to this nonsense right now.

To be fair we had an amazing start to last season which lasted until the start of November. From then until about Febuary we were awful! Every side has ups and downs in form. You could take the middle third of last season and say we were terrible....

I always said we can only first judge Ince after eight and personally I feel Ince has jumped the first hurdle in guiding the team decently so far (hence why we are in mid table). So no need to panic. In the longer term (the next 20 games or so) he needs to build on that, and if he negotiates that competantly he should get the rest of the season to find his feet and create a team, and he needs the fans backing for that. A divided support only hurts things as has been seen at Newcastle, Spurs etc.

I am not sure I can think of any manager who has just taken on a team in the Prem with relatively small resources (Pardew/Dowie/Small Sam) doing much better than Ince right now. Even Bruce who is doing a fantastic job at Wigan needed six months to get the ball rolling. And a number of managers who have recently taken clubs with vast resources (or at least more money at Fulham) are actually doing worse than Ince (Hughes, Ramos, Hodgson).

Give him a bit of a break!

[Mr Creosote]

Rubbish! In one bloody game only! Everton away.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/bla...ults/2007-2008/

Anyway EiT started it.

Everton at home.

[thenodrog]

To be fair we had an amazing start to last season which lasted until the start of November. From then until about Febuary we were awful! Every side has ups and downs in form. You could take the middle third of last season and say we were terrible....

It wasn't me it was EiT who was peddling porkies about our start to the season and style of attacking play this season under Ince being ever so much better than last years under Hughes JBN.

[LeChuck]

Aston Villa boss Martin O'Neill plans to use Marlon Harewood as bait to sign Blackburn striker Roque Santa Cruz in an £18m deal. (Daily Mirror)

Yeah, right.

[Cocker]

Aston Villa boss Martin O'Neill plans to use Marlon Harewood as bait to sign Blackburn striker Roque Santa Cruz in an £18m deal. (Daily Mirror)

Yeah, right.

Ah what a load of rubbish. They cheeky so and so's. Give us Abonglahor and then we might talk but their last choice striker - no thanks.