[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[RevidgeBlue]

this isnt a post against ince in any shape or form ,but it does make you wonder what hughsies back room staff did differently than the present regime and the german regime with keeping him fit?

There might possibly be something in that, I remember concerns being raised when everyone was going down with hamstring injuries under Souness, and apparently he had similar problems at Rangers.

[CrazyIvan]

It is probably not true because Crazy Ivan cannot find it!

(only on one news service at the moment).

Being serious, without good crosses, RSC can be nowhere near as effective as last season. Benni now has to step up and turn the promising glimpses of being back to form into consistent performances. If he does that we stand a chance- otherwise we are in deep trouble in the fixtures RSC is out for.

Don't be childish philipl!

[Ricky]

I always wondered how Hughes managed to get us through season on season without too many minor injuries.

We had pretty much a full season from Bellamy and a full season from Roque, both 'injury prone' players.

[RevidgeBlue]

I always wondered how Hughes managed to get us through season on season without too many minor injuries.

We had pretty much a full season from Bellamy and a full season from Roque, both 'injury prone' players.

We only got 19 games out of Bellamy but generally I agree with what you're saying there.

[Ricky]

Weird how the mind plays tricks on you isn't it Rev, I was certain he only missed a couple of league games through injury. Obviously looking back on it with blue and white tinted spectacles.

[BRFC4EVA]

To quote Stan T, "It's obvious to a blind man on a galloping horse". The reason (no matter how unpalatable to some, and how despised he is by others) is that David Bentley is at Spurs.

Sorry, but I dont think its as simple as that. Sure, there is no doubt that Bentley going to Spurs has had an impact of Santa Cruz's performances/goal tally this season, but arent we just making excuses for him? In the last match he played (boro at home), he had 3 or 4 excellent chances (with or without Bentley) and failed to take 1 of them.

[thenodrog]

Sorry, but I dont think its as simple as that. Sure, there is no doubt that Bentley going to Spurs has had an impact of Santa Cruz's performances/goal tally this season, but arent we just making excuses for him? In the last match he played (boro at home), he had 3 or 4 excellent chances (with or without Bentley) and failed to take 1 of them.

No doubt somebody will be able to dig out the stats of RSC's goals that were the result of Bentley assists but I'm off to the pub.

I always wondered how Hughes managed to get us through season on season without too many minor injuries.

We had pretty much a full season from Bellamy and a full season from Roque, both 'injury prone' players.

Remarkeably simple to cut down on all but thye most serious of injuries.

1. Turn off all heating in the treatment rooms.

2. Ban all music and vid players.

3. All treatment to be carried out 7 days a week and between 6.00am and 8.00am only.

[Tris]

Remarkeably simple to cut down on all but thye most serious of injuries.

1. Turn off all heating in the treatment rooms.

2. Ban all music and vid players.

3. All treatment to be carried out 7 days a week and between 6.00am and 8.00am only.

4. Openly gay physio...

[Exiled_Rover]

When you get to the top level you want to play football, you're not going to feign injury. I imagine Hughes' top notch backroom staff is the reason players like Santa Cruz had injury free seasons for the first time in their career.

[Bobby G]

Papers today saying Hughes will fly out to Abu Dhabi in a few days to talk to the club owner and present his list of targets and that Roque will be the number one name on that list...

Its getting tiresome. I do hope he sticks it out with us till the end of the season and that if City want him, it puts them back 25 million or so...

[Mr. E]

Papers today saying Hughes will fly out to Abu Dhabi in a few days to talk to the club owner and present his list of targets and that Roque will be the number one name on that list...

Its getting tiresome. I do hope he sticks it out with us till the end of the season and that if City want him, it puts them back 25 million or so...

The thing is , even if we do manage to get some decent money for him, we never seem to spend it. Duff and Bentley were the same. We spend maybe 1/4ths of it on vastly inferior replacements, the rest "goes elsewhere". Kind of makes you wonder what's the point.

[T4E]

I'm starting to think outlining RSC's value as £18m wasn't a bad idea after all. If he stays injured until late December then comes back and plays a couple of games without scoring, we'd probably have struggled to get £12m for him. As it happens the price is already out there and his short-term form/fitness is largely irrelevant.

[Exiled in Toronto]

When you get to the top level you want to play football, you're not going to feign injury. I imagine Hughes' top notch backroom staff is the reason players like Santa Cruz had injury free seasons for the first time in their career.

I wondered when their powers would be extended to healing the sick

Pity they couldn't raise the dead though and get Benni back in shape!

[gumboots]

The thing is , even if we do manage to get some decent money for him, we never seem to spend it. Duff and Bentley were the same. We spend maybe 1/4ths of it on vastly inferior replacements, the rest "goes elsewhere". Kind of makes you wonder what's the point.

The point is keeping our club, which does not pull in the crowds or have a very rich owner, in reasonable financial health at a very difficult time for many. I know it's not good and we do need to spend but the clubs that are way in debt are generally those who cannot be allowed to go to the wall and therefore there will always be someone to bail them out. If we end up in dire financial straits there is not going to be a rich sugar daddy turn up or even a nice friendly bank manager - they'll let us go with never a backward glance. Therefore we can't afford to spend all we make. I'd like to see us push the boat out a bit but not to the extent that many on here would.

[DingleBaiter]

this isnt a post against ince in any shape or form ,but it does make you wonder what hughsies back room staff did differently than the present regime and the german regime with keeping him fit?

I don't think anyone can claim the 'german regime' did anything like as good you suggest at 'keeping him fit'?

One thing people seem to forget about RSC is that he hardly trains, and his main injury problem is something one has to live with. Look back at Paul McGrath (other than the obvious problem he had with his neck, or what he put down it) to see how some players just have to be 'managed' a certain way, same for Ledley King.

I don't think the RSC situation just now is a simple case of regime change - in fact, I'm certain it's not. Is it the dreaded 'second season-itis'? Is he suffering the same mental issues Benedict had with all the head-turning tripe? I also Hughes perhaps had a more smooth relationship with the Paraguay side; we got away with more than Ince seems to - certainly on the 'tactical injury' front where RSC made a miraculous recovery just after Paraguay international games he missed. Then again, they are doing well in their WC group and they arguably need him more than last season?

When you get to the top level you want to play football, you're not going to feign injury. I imagine Hughes' top notch backroom staff is the reason players like Santa Cruz had injury free seasons for the first time in their career.

Ask Craig Bellamy his thoughts on that?

RSC didn't have an injury free season last season. Granted, he may have played more games than he may have for some time. However, there's a world of difference between the two.

Papers today saying Hughes will fly out to Abu Dhabi in a few days to talk to the club owner and present his list of targets and that Roque will be the number one name on that list...

Its getting tiresome. I do hope he sticks it out with us till the end of the season and that if City want him, it puts them back 25 million or so...

I'm sure City don't know Etihad fly direct there from Manchester Airport - he's been trying to make that trip every week for the last two months it seems

[ABBEY]

I don't think anyone can claim the 'german regime' did anything like as good you suggest at 'keeping him fit'?

i never said they did ....he was injured loads in germany.

[DingleBaiter]

i never said they did ....he was injured loads in germany.

Yup - you sure did; apologies - misread your post, thought you meant Hughes & german regime in comparison with PI's.I can only guess but think BM must have kinda given up on RSC towards the last few years, perhaps they'd replaced him so weren't as keen to get him back in? Sometimes happens like that with injuries, probably in same kind of way we'd be looking at Reid?

Also think they learned to live more with the tendinitis he suffers from, possibly also helped timewise last season with Paraguay not needing him as much - or Hughes being able to fob them off better

[Majiball]

Mmmm I've been pondering this situation for the last couple of days, should we cash in on RSC. There are a lot of questions to be answered first.

Would 18M be enough? (in the summer most on here where saying nearer 25M)

Do we have dollar to spend? (we made money this summer)

Who would replace him?

Will Ince get all the money?

I'm not a big fan of the January Sales, players always go up in value and clubs can get ripped off, but this works both ways. I would be far more amenable if it was done close season, but if he maintains his current form then will we still get 18M+?.

Do we actually need the surgery that an 18M sale would allow us to provide? do we want to be doing this mid-season?

At the end of the day I've said it before RSC will be off in the summer if we do not make Europe, of this I am sure. RSC did us a big favour signing that contract it means we can ask top dollar for up to two years. Perhaps we could have one of those poll things put up to see what we all think about it all???

However one thing that pleases me despite my distaste for tabloids is that we are being linked with young players with growing reputations. I do feel this is the only way for us to compete, we'll just have to get used to them moving on!

[philipl]

Mmmm I've been pondering this situation for the last couple of days, should we cash in on RSC. There are a lot of questions to be answered first.

Would 18M be enough? (in the summer most on here where saying nearer 25M)

Do we have dollar to spend? (we made money this summer)

Who would replace him?

Will Ince get all the money?

I'm not a big fan of the January Sales, players always go up in value and clubs can get ripped off, but this works both ways. I would be far more amenable if it was done close season, but if he maintains his current form then will we still get 18M+?.

Do we actually need the surgery that an 18M sale would allow us to provide? do we want to be doing this mid-season?

At the end of the day I've said it before RSC will be off in the summer if we do not make Europe, of this I am sure. RSC did us a big favour signing that contract it means we can ask top dollar for up to two years. Perhaps we could have one of those poll things put up to see what we all think about it all???

However one thing that pleases me despite my distaste for tabloids is that we are being linked with young players with growing reputations. I do feel this is the only way for us to compete, we'll just have to get used to them moving on!

And if we don't look like being in contention for Europe as we enter the January window, we'll be at big risk of not being able to fight to keep him then.

[Majiball]

And if we don't look like being in contention for Europe as we enter the January window, we'll be at big risk of not being able to fight to keep him then.

I'd like to think he would see out the season. Selling would mean wholesale changes (I assume ince would get the money) as he would have quite a warchest. Introducing two maybe three to the first team mid season is a dangerous tactic, but I guess it depends on where we are in the league.

RSC thrived on Bentley's crosses which we no longer have will he do as well? If anyone slams in a 18M-20M bid we have to think about it, seriously. Hopefully we are checking out targets to cover the potential situation should he be sold.

[M-K]

If anyone slams in a 18M-20M bid we have to think about it, seriously.

Much as I like RSC, I'd be surprised if there was anyone interested at much more than half that price - that's about what Spurs paid for Berbatov. There's a reason RSC only cost 3.5M.

[RibbleValleyRover]

If anyone slams in a 18M-20M bid we have to think about it, seriously

I'm sure the board/trust will love it, another large chunk of cash to absorb. Do you honestly think that Ince will see most of the cash from a Roque sale?

I have no doubts, we will sell Roque in jan or in the summer, Ince will see something like 25% of the cash and we won't be able to attract a suitable replacement. It will be just like the Bentley scenario all over again.

On Roque's fitness, it could just be simply that he is being played unfit between niggles and small injuries, we are that reliant on him that the manager may feel its better to play him even though he isn't fully fit.

[Hughesy]

Maybe something the fans forum can raise? IF we sell our star players, does all the money go back into player purchases.

£20m has to be a fair price - especially with his long contract, given Robinho cost £32, Berbatov £30m, Keane £21m.

IF we did sell him, id love to see us sign Oblefemi Martins and also Onuha & Sturridge as part of the deal taking RSC to City, but thats just me dreaming I think!

[waggy]

THERE IS TALK of rocky being fit for saturday,but surely we will be better giving him the extra week to recover,lets get him 100% fit and on the field instead off 80% and missing another 2 weeks.

[Hughesy]

Saturday? Sunday would be fine.

Id rather he had the extra weeks rest if he isnt 100% come sunday.