[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[Eddie]

This isn't Brett Emerton's injury. This is a player who has been plagued throughout his career by injuries, including this season, and has had long-term problems with his knees. This isn't a question of hindsight coming into it, it was a very real possibility at the time and something that should have been a major factor when considering such an offer. Fingers crossed he turns it around, but I'd be very surprised and any potential bidder has to look at this season and wonder how they could even justify bidding 6/7 million for him. I certainly wouldn't.

[RevidgeBlue]

This isn't Brett Emerton's injury. This is a player who has been plagued throughout his career by injuries, including this season, and has had long-term problems with his knees. This isn't a question of hindsight coming into it, it was a very real possibility at the time and something that should have been a major factor when considering such an offer. Fingers crossed he turns it around, but I'd be very surprised and any potential bidder has to look at this season and wonder how they could even justify bidding 6/7 million for him. I certainly wouldn't.

He hadn't suffered any serious injury problems whilst with us though, I can't agree we should have sold potentially our best player on the basis he might get injured in the second half of the season.

[Eddie]

He'd had an injury hit first half of the season and was clearly still struggling. In such a physical league, if you had had to make a bet on whether he would or wouldn't pick up such an injury I think most would have bet on the former. He went 12 months without any serious problems, but that really isn't that long in light of the troubles he has had.

[thenodrog]

Of course Allardyce will try and justify it, but I wanted him sold at the time and it's a position I stick with.

You'd better apply for the next managers job eddie. Give me a bell if you need a written reference.

btw Allardyce did what Ince should have done. Namely saying 'no one leaves until we are safe and I say so.'

Also rumour ... (for what such things are worth) is that SA would have let RSC go if Crouch had agreed to come here but he wouldn't.

Factor in the fact that City only offered the asking price but for it to be paid over 3 years. How would that have helped us replace him?

Factor in further in the supporters mood and reaction if we had let City publically bully us into selling them our prized asset in the position that we were in. If we had sold RSC you, waggy and a few others would be moaning like hell now that we shouldn't have done and that Allardyce was a bad manager to have done.

Basically we all know eddie that you and a few others are simply intent on worming away in the background to create a ground swell of adverse opinion against the club and manager just as soon as you are able. It'll no doubt disappoint you and yours that if Allardyce's record of 1.3 points per match since he came (Ince 0.76) continues most of us will be smiling in mid table by May.

[allanncd]

RSC has the same injury as Owen Hargreaves (in both knees) and his op has sidelined him for the entire season. Major, major problem looming as he cannot be sold before proving his fitness. Whether up or down that stuffs up the summer transfers. This entire season is becoming horribly similar to 10 years ago. For Sutton read RSC, for Flitcroft subst Reid, for Sherwood the comparable is Dunn. No midfield and the best striker permanently lame. RSC will have contributed 20 goals less than last season assuming his season is finished as the specialist is likely to say. Very unlikely to stay up with Roberts and the pieman up front.

[thenodrog]

RSC has the same injury as Owen Hargreaves (in both knees) and his op has sidelined him for the entire season. Major, major problem looming as he cannot be sold before proving his fitness. Whether up or down that stuffs up the summer transfers. This entire season is becoming horribly similar to 10 years ago. For Sutton read RSC, for Flitcroft subst Reid, for Sherwood the comparable is Dunn. No midfield and the best striker permanently lame. RSC will have contributed 20 goals less than last season assuming his season is finished as the specialist is likely to say. Very unlikely to stay up with Roberts and the pieman up front.

I dare say Hughes will find about 8m............ as I'm beggining to suspect that he's likely pulling the strings now.

[G Somerset Rover]

So Roque and Dunn will be fortunate to play any part for the remainder of the season? Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it does look like we'll get nowhere near the offer that we did in January for Roque come the summer. And he's played what? 2-3 games since the turn of the year? . Ironically it also looks as if the likes of Andrews and Roberts will be the players relied upon to get us out of the mire.

[tashor]

RSC has the same injury as Owen Hargreaves (in both knees) and his op has sidelined him for the entire season. Major, major problem looming as he cannot be sold before proving his fitness. Whether up or down that stuffs up the summer transfers. This entire season is becoming horribly similar to 10 years ago. For Sutton read RSC, for Flitcroft subst Reid, for Sherwood the comparable is Dunn. No midfield and the best striker permanently lame. RSC will have contributed 20 goals less than last season assuming his season is finished as the specialist is likely to say. Very unlikely to stay up with Roberts and the pieman up front.

Award for shyite post of the year so far goes to this kernobbler..............

[allanncd]

Why - or can't you face the truth?

[JAL]

RSC has the same injury as Owen Hargreaves (in both knees) and his op has sidelined him for the entire season. Major, major problem looming as he cannot be sold before proving his fitness. Whether up or down that stuffs up the summer transfers. This entire season is becoming horribly similar to 10 years ago. For Sutton read RSC, for Flitcroft subst Reid, for Sherwood the comparable is Dunn. No midfield and the best striker permanently lame. RSC will have contributed 20 goals less than last season assuming his season is finished as the specialist is likely to say. Very unlikely to stay up with Roberts and the pieman up front.

Thankfully allancd

Samba is twice the player Peacock was.

Givet is twice the player Grayson ever was or Daily.

Roberts is twice the player Nathan Blake ever was.

MaCarthy is three times the player Ashley Ward was.

Diouff is twice the player MaCateer ever was.

Pedersen is far more mature and capable than the young in experienced Damien Duff was at a similar time.

Robinson as much as i've criticised him is better than John Filan.

All in all more positives than negatives have faith but take nothing for granted.

Arte et labore.

[Eddie]

btw Allardyce did what Ince should have done. Namely saying 'no one leaves until we are safe and I say so.'

Also rumour ... (for what such things are worth) is that SA would have let RSC go if Crouch had agreed to come here but he wouldn't.

Factor in the fact that City only offered the asking price but for it to be paid over 3 years. How would that have helped us replace him?

Factor in further in the supporters mood and reaction if we had let City publically bully us into selling them our prized asset in the position that we were in. If we had sold RSC you, waggy and a few others would be moaning like hell now that we shouldn't have done and that Allardyce was a bad manager to have done.

Basically we all know eddie that you and a few others are simply intent on worming away in the background to create a ground swell of adverse opinion against the club and manager just as soon as you are able. It'll no doubt disappoint you and yours that if Allardyce's record of 1.3 points per match since he came (Ince 0.76) continues most of us will be smiling in mid table by May.

I wouldn't have complained one bit if we had sold RSC, believe it or not I'm actually consistent in my opinions. You can disagree with me if you want, but I don't chop and change so that I can always be "right". I've advocated selling him since April/May of last season and it is an opinion I will stick with. If he proves me wrong by returning to the form and fitness of last year then I will be delighted and also be the first one to admit it.

As for me wanting to simply have an opinion that is harmful the club, that also couldn't be true. I'm never going to entirely agree with what the club is doing, if I did there would be something wrong with me. I will always support the club and want them to achieve success, if a particular player, manager or policy that I don't like or disagree with ends up improving the team then I am always happy to be wrong. You need to accept that some people will always disagree with certain views, I have had periods of extreme optimism (under Souness and for a while under Hughes) and sometimes during those periods others have strongly disagreed with me (only for a period under Souness really). You can't simply look to dismiss a differing opinion by labeling it intentionally harmful to the club; you are like a conservative calling anti-war protesters unpatriotic.

I am not a huge fan of Allardyce and I fear for the long-term plan as long as he is manager. I hope that he proves me wrong. I'm certainly not alone in those fears and some of those who share this view disagree with me on a lot of other issues.

I think we should have sold Santa Cruz last summer if a big offer had come in, in January with the offers we did receive and then in the summer if similar offers come in. That opinion of mine won't change. All along I have voiced concerns over his fitness and the fact that he will pick up injuries. If you recall I was also much slated last year for saying that I didn't think he was a "natural goalscorer or finisher". I took that flack and I'll stick by that opinion now just as I did when he was scoring plenty of goals. I'm not going to flip-flop and just try and be on the side I think is right at that moment in time. Disagree with me if you'd like and argue the points based on the facts, but don't just treat it as if I'm looking to stir trouble. I've been talking about this issue for far too long for it to just be that.

Thankfully allancd

Samba is twice the player Peacock was.

Givet is twice the player Grayson ever was or Daily.

Roberts is twice the player Nathan Blake ever was.

MaCarthy is three times the player Ashley Ward was.

Diouff is twice the player MaCateer ever was.

Pedersen is far more mature and capable than the young in experienced Damien Duff was at a similar time.

Robinson as much as i've criticised him is better than John Filan.

All in all more positives than negatives have faith but take nothing for granted.

Arte et labore.

I agree that we have a talented squad and a better squad than at that time, but don't think that Diouff is twice he ever was. I'd also rather have a raw Duff over an experienced Pedersen any day.

[JAL]

I am not a huge fan of Allardyce and I fear for the long-term plan as long as he is manager. I hope that he proves me wrong. I'm certainly not alone in those fears and some of those who share this view disagree with me on a lot of other issues.

I think we should have sold Santa Cruz last summer if a big offer had come in, in January with the offers we did receive and then in the summer if similar offers come in. That opinion of mine won't change. All along I have voiced concerns over his fitness and the fact that he will pick up injuries. If you recall I was also much slated last year for saying that I didn't think he was a "natural goalscorer or finisher". I took that flack and I'll stick by that opinion now just as I did when he was scoring plenty of goals. I'm not going to flip-flop and just try and be on the side I think is right at that moment in time. Disagree with me if you'd like and argue the points based on the facts, but don't just treat it as if I'm looking to stir trouble. I've been talking about this issue for far too long for it to just be that.

I agree that we have a talented squad and a better squad than at that time, but don't think that Diouff is twice he ever was. I'd also rather have a raw Duff over an experienced Pedersen any day.

Fully understand Eddie, Diouf versus MaCateer subjective I know, Duff though wasnt really ready in 99, so MGP is way ahead.

Fingers crossed for the remainder of the season, wished you'd have been at Ewood last night to listen to big Sam - hes not a messiah, but he comes across as as a leader capable of organising, shaping, inspiring people whilst being fully in touch with his stuff- if thats the right saying .

[Bobby G]

On a related note, as a replacement for Roque, Dzeko who we scouted a few times has been on fire in the second half of the Bundesliga, and has been now linked to Arsenal, Inter and a number of top European clubs. Missed opportunity I think.

[Amo]

On a related note, as a replacement for Roque, Dzeko who we scouted a few times has been on fire in the second half of the Bundesliga, and has been now linked to Arsenal, Inter and a number of top European clubs. Missed opportunity I think.

Unless it's his agent doing the linking?

[Bobby G]

He has ripped apart the opposition in the second half of the season. Doubt its just his agent!

[Eddie]

Yep, I'm sure quite a few clubs are taking a serious look at him now and, if nothing else, his fee will have gone up by a couple of million. I think that particular ship may have sailed for us.

[Exiled_Rover]

Fully understand Eddie, Diouf versus MaCateer subjective I know, Duff though wasnt really ready in 99, so MGP is way ahead.

Fingers crossed for the remainder of the season, wished you'd have been at Ewood last night to listen to big Sam - hes not a messiah, but he comes across as as a leader capable of organising, shaping, inspiring people whilst being fully in touch with his stuff- if thats the right saying .

Raw or not, Duff could take the ball past someone and had the pace to punish them for it, Pedersen cannot and does not.

[Paul]

Do we know what's wrong with RSC? Is he injured or is he just sitting on his backside waiting to go to City? Seems like we chucked away £18m in January which would have been very useful given that we need about 6 or 7 new players. Not additions to the squad but new first choice, first teamers.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Raw or not, Duff could take the ball past someone and had the pace to punish them for it, Pedersen cannot and does not.

Why are people trying to compare Duff with MGP. Wilcox was left wing in the releagtion season. Kidd never played Duff and would have sold him.

[sanlorenzo]

Physioroom has RSC back on 4-11-09. Can anyone explain how he is doing and whether this is a season ending problem?

Last week RSC was aiming for a return against Tottenham.

[gumboots]

Do we know what's wrong with RSC? Is he injured or is he just sitting on his backside waiting to go to City? Seems like we chucked away £18m in January which would have been very useful given that we need about 6 or 7 new players. Not additions to the squad but new first choice, first teamers.

NOBODY offered us 18 million in January. You can't throw away what is not offered.

[RevidgeBlue]

Do we know what's wrong with RSC? Is he injured or is he just sitting on his backside waiting to go to City? Seems like we chucked away £18m in January which would have been very useful given that we need about 6 or 7 new players. Not additions to the squad but new first choice, first teamers.

He is injured. According to Sam on Thursday night he has a problem with one of his knees which hasn't responded to treatment as quickly hoped and if it doesn't respond pretty quickly now, further investigation and ultimately a "clean up" op may be required.

[JAL]

Raw or not, Duff could take the ball past someone and had the pace to punish them for it, Pedersen cannot and does not.

Not in 1999 Exiled Rover, Duff couldnt take the ball past first team players of that day, your confusing yourself with later Duff years, though I can see were coming from on Pedersen.

[Dan]

Physioroom has RSC back on 4-11-09. Can anyone explain how he is doing and whether this is a season ending problem?

Last week RSC was aiming for a return against Tottenham.

So he isn't going to play until November?! That's bad news, I didn't think the injury was THAT bad.....

[kandi]

So he isn't going to play until November?! That's bad news, I didn't think the injury was THAT bad.....

They have him back on 11-04-09....