[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[jim mk2]

That is sad Fife, as those involved arenow either dead, .....

Not dead yet, only moribund.

Can only reiterate Fife's post : Rovers lost thousands of supporters after the 1960 Cup final . I was looking at a history of Rovers book the other day. Photos in the late 1950s showed terraces full on all 4 sides ; post 1960 there was gaps all over the place.

[den]

No doubting the drop in attendances Jim. It would be nice to know the full story though. There must be people still alive, who were involved with the club directly, who know the truth and could put that side of the story.

I would be very interested in that.

[jonv]

I'd rather we saved Roque for games that we can hope for a result out of. A heavy loss and Roque getting reinjured isn't worth the risk.

[Guest Vinjay606]

No doubting the drop in attendances Jim. It would be nice to know the full story though. There must be people still alive, who were involved with the club directly, who know the truth and could put that side of the story.

I would be very interested in that.

Maybe if you go on the ground tour (or Rovers experience as the club appear to be marketing it) Ronnie Clayton might remember it in significant detail.

[den]

Maybe if you go on the ground tour (or Rovers experience as the club appear to be marketing it) Ronnie Clayton might remember it in significant detail.

Been on the ground tour, but didn't ask about that.

I wonder if anyone employed by the club at that time posts on, or views the site?

[Paul]

In the 1960's the FA Cup final ticket distribution was heavily biased towards the FA. Each club which entered the competition got a certain number of tickets. The Finalists were left with about 13,000 each, hence the problems.

Have to say I think that is wide of the mark. I'm certain the allocation used to be 30,000 to each club and 40,000 to FA affiliates of one sort of another. i went to a number of cup finals in the late 60s to mid 70s through my father knowing someone who regularly received tickets via the FA distribution

A quick Google though suggests in 1951 Newcastle only received 13500 and Liverpool 15,000 in 1965 so it's difficult to be accurate.

[roverthemoon]

Probably but the favourites being defeated 0-3 didn't help. Players on the gravy train as soon as the semi's were over. Dougans transfer request on the morning of the final etc etc. I don't rem it but you really need to ask older ones like Jimski or Fife. Point being thousands stopped going to Ewood from that day on because the players and club blatantly put money before the fans and before winning the FA cup for Blackburn.

I was at the 1960 final.

I was 15 and had just left school. My dad had taken me to my first rovers matches that season and a friend of his had a spare ticket for the final and asked if I would like to go. How he got the tickets is a mystery as there were three of us that went but I still remember the animosity towards the club at the time and also to Derek Dougan.

[mick]

as a rovers fan of the 1960's i would like to say that some of you are trying to compare apples to oranges and hanging everything on the cup final row. england in the 1960's was sliding into one of its worst economic recessions post ww2. let's not forget the devaluation of the pound, rising unemployment, shutting down of many of the lancashire mills, all contributing to the loss of fanbase.

schoolkids back then could get in very cheaply. players only made 50 pounds a week if they were stars. there were many local derbies between rovers, burnley, preston, blackpool, man city, man utd, liverpool, everton...all before the days of hooliganism...and then in the latter part of the decade all hell broke loose and fans ended up being caged in and fights were commonplace as the skins and their bovver boots wreaked havoc.

there are so many issues that contributed in could be the focus of a major study. i know that if i lived close then i would be there still cheering on the rovers.

a glorious past but that is where it belongs...in memories...but fondly remembered.

[Fife Rover]

In the 1960's the FA Cup final ticket distribution was heavily biased towards the FA. Each club which entered the competition got a certain number of tickets. The Finalists were left with about 13,000 each, hence the problems.

That is absolute rubbish. Where on earth have you got those figures from? The figure that was quoted at the time in all the papers was 30,000 to each of the finalists.

[bazza]

Maybe if you go on the ground tour (or Rovers experience as the club appear to be marketing it) Ronnie Clayton might remember it in significant detail.

Bryan Douglas may also be able to shed some light on the matter. I know he spoke a lot about that game, Dougan and the whole shambles when he spoke at Brindle village hall during last year, I think.

Den, there certainly were season tickets in the forties and fifties. I have one in a case somewhere in my roofspace. They were paper tickets in a hard-back folder, about 2 and a half inches long (horizontal) and 1 inch deep (vertical). There were always double the number of home games so I suppose the rest were for reserve games.

Most people paid cash at the turnstiles which always had queues. One turnstile on each end would be labelled "Tickets Only". There were no queues here.

[mick]

you could get in for free at half time...missed 6 goals against northampton helping my mate store bicycles in his backyard off bolton road

[modes98]

Derbyshire is not good enough for the premier league!

So Jason Roberts isn't either?

Derbyshire's goals to games (in games played in his correct position) is good and I imagine better than Roberts. Plus Derbyshire has the ability to finish one on ones and doesn#t have the injury problems of Santa Cruz.

Santa Cruz doesn't seem in any rush to get back but with roberts injured it's probably worth leaving him out of the liverpool game if it means he will definately play against stoke.

[Hughesy]

The thing with Derbs is that he doesnt have anything to offer only the occasional goal - JR does alot of work off the ball, he also holds up a ball and links players in - derbyshire doesnt do that/

[thenodrog]

I'd rather we saved Roque for games that we can hope for a result out of. A heavy loss and Roque getting reinjured isn't worth the risk.

Didn't he play for the reserves last night v Lpool Res?

[gazsimm]

So Jason Roberts isn't either?

Derbyshire's goals to games (in games played in his correct position) is good and I imagine better than Roberts. Plus Derbyshire has the ability to finish one on ones and doesn#t have the injury problems of Santa Cruz.

Santa Cruz doesn't seem in any rush to get back but with roberts injured it's probably worth leaving him out of the liverpool game if it means he will definately play against stoke.

Roberts offers the team a lot more then Derbyshire. Roberts might miss the odd good chance, but his overall game is a lot better then Derbyshire. If Derbyshire could get a bit more physical, he might be able to offer us more. But untill then he is not good enough for premier league football.

[S15]

Roberts and Derbyshire are ideally top half Championship players, and at very best bottom 5 Premiership players.

As long as they are playing roles for us, this is the territory we we tread.

[Hughesy]

Hit the nail on the head there Shilito - neither are good enough if the club wants to be top 10 material.

I think Derbyshire has a future, but he just needs to be seen to be putting 110% in every time he players - for me he hasnt done that over the last 12 months in which he played for us.

[jonv]

Didn't he play for the reserves last night v Lpool Res?

His brother Julio Santa Cruz played for the reserves!

If he (Roque) is so fragile with his knees I can' see that the Liverpool game would be the best bet for him? If we have 1 man up front it'd have to be Benny, getting Samba or Diouf as has been suggested would simply take a pair of 'workhorse' legs out of our defensive line which against Liverpool, we don't really want to be doing.

[Bobby G]

I think we can experiment a bit against Pool, and keep Samba up front, and I wouldnt risk Roque at all. I want him fit for the winnable games.

[rovers_rob]

Man City boss Hughes to pass on Blackburn striker Santa Cruz

I know its only a tribal football link but I can't see anyone paying 17 million for a striker that has hardly played and scored only a handful of goals this season.

If RSC wants to leave in the summer he will have to make a major impact between now and the end of the season.

[gazsimm]

Man City boss Hughes to pass on Blackburn striker Santa Cruz

I know its only a tribal football link but I can't see anyone paying 17 million for a striker that has hardly played and scored only a handful of goals this season.

If RSC wants to leave in the summer he will have to make a major impact between now and the end of the season.

I don't think any other club but City will come in for him and if they don't want him, then thats good for us if he gets back to full fitness, because he is a great player and we have missed him badly this season.

[Fife Rover]

Man City boss Hughes to pass on Blackburn striker Santa Cruz

I know its only a tribal football link but I can't see anyone paying 17 million for a striker that has hardly played and scored only a handful of goals this season.

If RSC wants to leave in the summer he will have to make a major impact between now and the end of the season.

This link doesn't work Rob.

[Hughesy]

If we dont sell Roque then we have no money to improve the team elsewhere - its as simple as that.

[RibbleValleyRover]

If we dont sell Roque then we have no money to improve the team elsewhere - its as simple as that.

Do you honestly think that Sam would get £15 million plus to spend? He'd be lucky to get half of that.

People keep seeing a Roque sale as the saviour of the club, a time to invest some serious money in other areas like the midfield but lets be honest and realistic here its never going to happen.

[Hughesy]

Do you honestly believe we have a penny to spend if he doesnt go?

He is on big wages, and except for probably Samba & Warnock he is our only player that has a decent sell on value.