[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[Eddie]

Hughes wouldn't have been in a position to overrule the City medical team. Had a deal fallen through as a result of Santa Cruz's knee problems, either at City or at Spurs, it would have seen his value drop significantly.

[RevidgeBlue]

The ONLY possible correct reason I can now see for why we didn't sell Santa Cruz is that we knew he wouldn't pass a medical and we didn't want to completely destroy his value by having a deal collapse.

Other than not offering acceptable payment terms, was it not also the case that Citeh deliberately delayed their bid to a point where it was too late for us to get a replacement in?

[LeChuck]

I'm sure they only offered anything like an acceptable amount on the final day.

There were plenty of plausible stories of us looking at strikers over the last week or so of the window, I'm sure if we had received a decent offer with time to find a replacement then we would have done it.

Selling him without having a replacement would have sent out the completely wrong message to the rest of the squad and the fans - we would have looked like a team preparing for relegation. Like someone else said, if we stay up then it's been the right decision to keep him, regardless of the role he plays.

[Eddie]

Possibly, but with City and Spurs interested I still think we could have made a deal had we wanted to. Hopefully it will all work out for us and it's only a few months gone so there is still plenty of time for things to turn around on this particular front.

[LeChuck]

I doubt the Spurs interest was serious Eddie, they already have Pavlyuchenko, Defoe, Keane and Bent in their squad.

[T4E]

Wasn't the Spurs interest reported prior to them resigning Keane? As I recall he went back there very late in the window, before which the Santa story had done the rounds.

As far as only offering something acceptable on the final day, unfortunately we'll never know for sure. However, I think there's fair a chance that what was offered and deemed unacceptable in mid Jan would be regarded as wholly acceptable now.

[joey_big_nose]

Well he is definately a Rover for the next 12 months now imo. No chance of anyone offering enough in the summer for us to sell him. It will be interesting to see how we perform in the transfer market without the influx of cash from his sale.

We need to buy two central midfielders, Givet, a right back and a striker. It will be interesting.

We have, I think, no saleable assets whatsoever apart from maybe Derbyshire, Samba and Warnock. Three key players have serious injury problems - Dunn, Grella and Reid (hopefully Cruz won't join them....)- and they are on long contracts. Vogel has already gone, Mokoena and Ooijer will follow. I think Roberts effectiveness will decrease as he gets older and loses pace.

Its going to be a tough one to keep a decent squad together.

[RevidgeBlue]

As far as only offering something acceptable on the final day, unfortunately we'll never know for sure. However, I think there's fair a chance that what was offered and deemed unacceptable in mid Jan would be regarded as wholly acceptable now.

There's no reason to suggest we won't get a slightly lesser amount in the summer is there?

[LeChuck]

Wasn't the Spurs interest reported prior to them resigning Keane? As I recall he went back there very late in the window, before which the Santa story had done the rounds.

As far as only offering something acceptable on the final day, unfortunately we'll never know for sure. However, I think there's fair a chance that what was offered and deemed unacceptable in mid Jan would be regarded as wholly acceptable now.

I'd be amazed if Roque was higher on their wanted list than Keane, especially as they immediately made him captain on his return.

Didn't Nicko say something about the timings of the offers from City? I can't remember now to be honest, I just have a feeling I read from a relatively credible source that's what happened.

Agree completely with your last sentence by the way.

[T4E]

There's no reason to suggest we won't get a slightly lesser amount in the summer is there?

That reads rather awkwardly Rev - do you mean that you still believe we'll get a decent amount in the Summer, just not as much as we would in Jan?

[nicko]

Wasn't the Spurs interest reported prior to them resigning Keane? As I recall he went back there very late in the window, before which the Santa story had done the rounds.

As far as only offering something acceptable on the final day, unfortunately we'll never know for sure. However, I think there's fair a chance that what was offered and deemed unacceptable in mid Jan would be regarded as wholly acceptable now.

Spurs were in for Roque BEFORE they signed Keane and would have taken the pair if possible.

Harry Redknapp has shown since that he does not fancy Pav - and saw Roque as his replacement.

Man City kept fannying around with offers that fell short.

The club made the right call at the time - because the other major factor was signing a replacement for Roque.

If Roque had been sold and no replacement bought you would be in the nigtmare position that is currently the case...although you would have money in the bank.

[T4E]

If Roque had been sold and no replacement bought you would be in the nigtmare position that is currently the case...although you would have money in the bank.

Which is exactly why, 3 months later, the debate rages on.

[waggy]

i will be very suprised if we see rocky again at ewood in a rovers shirt,he has no intrest in playing for us,should have got shut in the window,well done lardarse

[den]

He's had knee problems since his early 20's (if not even earlier) and he was bound to have them come up again, we played this one very badly.

Why was he "bound" to suffer from his knee injuries again Eddie? If that had been the case, then how did he manage to make the appearances he did last season and score over 20 goals?

No, he wasn't "bound" to suffer those injuries again, you guessed that he would. As it turns out you made the correct guess - that's all. If the physios at Ewood had thought his knees were knackered, and they are in a better place to make those decisions than us, then he would have been sold. The evidence from last season was that he could play a full season again.

[thenodrog]

got a downer on Eddie at the moment Theno?

Nope not at all Capt. I have a downer on eddie all the time.

[Eddie]

Why was he "bound" to suffer from his knee injuries again Eddie? If that had been the case, then how did he manage to make the appearances he did last season and score over 20 goals?

No, he wasn't "bound" to suffer those injuries again, you guessed that he would. As it turns out you made the correct guess - that's all. If the physios at Ewood had thought his knees were knackered, and they are in a better place to make those decisions than us, then he would have been sold. The evidence from last season was that he could play a full season again.

Fair enough, but what I did was more than guess. I can't think of many players (in any sport that I follow) who have suffered serious and continuous injury troubles throughout their young career only to have an incredible turnaround in their mid to late 20's. Usually when a player is injury prone in their early 20s, particularly with something like a knee, it will continue, if not worsen, as their career goes on. I was obviously not privy to Santa Cruz's medical files and perhaps there was evidence to support such an improvement, but unless this was very concrete looking evidence and unless it was supported by a knee specialist then I can't see how the club didn't figure the likelihood of injury troubles into their decision making, or if they did, why they chose to give it insufficient weight.

[Rover95]

i will be very suprised if we see rocky again at ewood in a rovers shirt,he has no intrest in playing for us,should have got shut in the window,well done lardarse

Do you talk this much @#/? in your everyday life?? God help your friends if you do.

I don't think I've ever read as much crap as the stuff you regularly come out with.

Can someone remind me how to use the 'ignore' function please?

[den]

Fair enough, but what I did was more than guess. I can't think of many players (in any sport that I follow) who have suffered serious and continuous injury troubles throughout their young career only to have an incredible turnaround in their mid to late 20's. Usually when a player is injury prone in their early 20s, particularly with something like a knee, it will continue, if not worsen, as their career goes on. I was obviously not privy to Santa Cruz's medical files and perhaps there was evidence to support such an improvement, but unless this was very concrete looking evidence and unless it was supported by a knee specialist then I can't see how the club didn't figure the likelihood of injury troubles into their decision making, or if they did, why they chose to give it insufficient weight.

Because he had just proven to them that he could play a full season. He was injury free last season, and there was no medical basis to say he couldn't do the same again.

[CAPT KAYOS]

i will be very suprised if we see rocky again at ewood in a rovers shirt,he has no intrest in playing for us,should have got shut in the window,well done lardarse

On the contrary Waggy IMO -there is a double edged side to this sword scenario.

As mentioned - if we are truly desperate and he is anywhere near fit - he will be used in the remaining - the question is will he be fit though.

If we are not desperate then as mentioned if not fully fit (which I don't expect) we will see him in a cameo role more than likely for the Portsmouth match - if only on the bench and then in a starting (parting) appearance in the game against the baggies.

Something is certainly amiss as I posted, as the symptoms for the operation has surely not suddenly just been diagnosed.

Roque has not been playing well since towards the end of last season.

What is certain - is unless there has been an agreement already of some form - we will not get anywhere near what the asking price was in the January window should he leave - if he doesn't - Hindsight of whether we should have sold him or not is one thing and will be irrelevant , however we still have a very decent player on our books which can only be good for Rovers if the player choses that he has no other option but to accept that he is still a Rovers player.

[T4E]

There was historical basis for it, Den. Sure, RSC never played a complete season at Bayern as he was never first choice, but, for example in 2003-04 he made 37 appearances for Bayern. In 2004-05 he made 4. In 2005-06 he made 15. In 2006-07 he made 35. Granted I got this from Wikipedia, but I'm sure the gist is accurate if not the specific numbers.

This shows that Roque can go the majority of a season without breaking down, only to then struggle the next season (and possible even the season after).

Eddie's logic stands up pretty well on this one. And it's not the deployment of hindsight - I seem to recall a few posters making similar comments about Roque being due a breakdown last Summer. Infact I think Eddie was amongst them.

[Tom]

How much do people think we could get for him in the summer? I'm sure nobody will reach the release clause figure especially if Sparky gets the chop

[Eddie]

I'd be surprised if we get a bid of 10 million plus at the moment unless Hughes is in charge at City and is given a very large budget.

[den]

We don't know too much about his injuries pre-rovers T4E.

64 caps for Paraguay, along with 20 goals, suggest that he wasn't too afflicted with these injuries. Surely if he wasn't fit for much of his Munich time, he wouldn't have been fit for Paraguay?

All this says to me that Eddie was merely guessing at what happened this season.

[Eddie]

I'm quite aware of the problems that Santa Cruz had at Bayern and know that his knees were one of his major problems. Just because you weren't aware of his injury record, either the severity of his injuries, specific problems that he had or the fact that they had occurred so regularly doesn't mean that my position was mere guesswork. Of course I couldn't have said with certainty that he would be injured again, but I thought it was very likely and wasn't simply throwing it out there.

[nicko]

Roque's latest knee injury is a NEW problem and in the other leg to the last injury.

Nobody could guess this would happen...