[Archived] Roque Santa Cruz Thread

[Lurid Coat]

I posted this in the Sam's Shopping List thread:

Hopefully true, I'd offload him in a heartbeat if a decent offer comes in (if he actually passes his medical). He was amazing for us the season before this one, but we can't afford to be dependent on strikers who are made of glass. We need someone who can play week in, week out, and we are also in badly need of transfer funds to overhaul our squad (particularly our midfield).

[thenodrog]

I assume this is the story Nicko was talking about (although he didn't write this), encouraging at least that someone with money is still intrested in him.

Arry was reorted to want Crouch two weeks ago. A traditional centre forward seems to be in his plans. Maybe Bentley has been bending his ear about RSC.

[nicko]

I assume this is the story Nicko was talking about (although he didn't write this), encouraging at least that someone with money is still intrested in him.

Yes, it is.

Spurs still want Roque - after trying for him in January. It's a surprise to me that they are still interested, but it comes from a very solid source.

The fact that the Screws have it too only backs it up.

[Clitherover]

19 million is a bit hopeful really.

[G Somerset Rover]

Yes, it is.

Spurs still want Roque - after trying for him in January. It's a surprise to me that they are still interested, but it comes from a very solid source.

The fact that the Screws have it too only backs it up.

Pavlyuchenko plus £5-7 million would do me.

[Silencio]

Pavlyuchenko plus £5-7 million would do me.

Pavlyuchenko would have to want to sign for us though...

[G Somerset Rover]

Pavlyuchenko would have to want to sign for us though...

We'll leave that for Sam to work his magic. One would hope that he holds us in higher regard than his fellow countryman Pogrebnyak does!

[RevidgeBlue]

Say what you like about Roque, but it's starting to look as though getting a couple of games out of him at the end of the season and a couple of vital goals might be just about our only hope.

[Eddie]

Pavlyuchenko plus £5-7 million would do me.

No thanks, I'd want a cash heavy deal. If they want him and the figure they are able to pay is 12 million then go 12 plus a player.

[Guest Vinjay606]

One would hope that he holds us in higher regard than his fellow countryman Pogrebnyak does!

That wasn't an attack on this club. He would have said the same about most clubs in the bottom half.

[tcj_jones]

If we could get Darren Bent as part of the deal, then I'd be really happy. He is great in the air, is a proven goal scorer and, unlike Roque, ha a good injury record. I'd imagine he'd be well coveted in the summer though and doubt that he'd want to come to a club fighting relegation.

[Amo]

Darren Bent will be as divisive as the Aaron Lennon debate.

For the record, both of them are good players who would most certainly improve our squad.

[Guest Vinjay606]

Good players but vastly overrated.

[Eddie]

Bent was overrated, but in a 10+ cash deal with him coming along I'd snap their hands off (don't know if that is at all realistic though). He has pace, which we desperately lack, is a good finisher and is young enough that there is every reason to believe that he can improve. You can't have seasons like he did with Charlton if you are rubbish and to bring in a striker at the same time Santa Cruz left would be ideal. We'd then have plenty of cash left over to spend on another striker, central midfielders, right midfielders and a right back.

[Tom]

Nicko any idea's what players Sam may be keen on as part of any deal?

[Roost]

I dont honestly think we will see RSC in a Rovers shirt again. It seems to me that the knee surgery has been carried out now to ensure there are no hiccups with the medical and could even have been demanded by the 'buyer'.

I wonder how much we will get for him this time around - probably half of what we turned down in january

[gumboots]

I dont honestly think we will see RSC in a Rovers shirt again. It seems to me that the knee surgery has been carried out now to ensure there are no hiccups with the medical and could even have been demanded by the 'buyer'.

I wonder how much we will get for him this time around - probably half of what we turned down in january

But nobody knows what we turned down in January. It certainly wasn't an upfront deal. They wanted to pay it in dribs and drabs despite being the richest club in the country. Allardyce took a risk in rejecting whatever it was but it was his choice and he knew he would have to stand or fall by it. That's why he gets paid to manage us and we are just fans.

[Eddie]

But nobody knows what we turned down in January. It certainly wasn't an upfront deal. They wanted to pay it in dribs and drabs despite being the richest club in the country. Allardyce took a risk in rejecting whatever it was but it was his choice and he knew he would have to stand or fall by it. That's why he gets paid to manage us and we are just fans.

Those two don't go so well together...

[gumboots]

Those two don't go so well together...

Why not? The amount was not known but they, according to quite a lot of sources, did not want to pay the whole amount in one go. It's standard practice and they were going with it.

[Eddie]

It's standard for a fee not to be paid in one sum, but that doesn't mean it will be paid in "dribs and drabs". Also, whilst it appears quite likely that they didn't offer it up front, they may have; as you pointed out none of us actually know the exact details of the offers.

I think we've all bought into the "not offered it all up front" nonsense. As you yourself pointed out it is quite normal for the payments to be spread out and why the club couldn't do anything when that was the case makes very little sense to me.

[Guest Vinjay606]

Can't see why Manchester City of all clubs would even bother to spread out the payments.

[gumboots]

It's standard for a fee not to be paid in one sum, but that doesn't mean it will be paid in "dribs and drabs". Also, whilst it appears quite likely that they didn't offer it up front, they may have; as you pointed out none of us actually know the exact details of the offers.

I think we've all bought into the "not offered it all up front" nonsense. As you yourself pointed out it is quite normal for the payments to be spread out and why the club couldn't do anything when that was the case makes very little sense to me.

Perhaps because there were other strings attached? Or because the clubs we might have looked to buy from were asking for the cash upfront. It's the problem with any sort of chain. If another club sold to us, they had to be able to buy etc. Whilst it's possible to sort those sort of deals in summer with several months to get the deal through, the pressure is on in January with very little time available for the selling club to buy and reach deals etc. I don't know, and you don't, but for whatever reason, Allardyce did not want to sell and ultimately that's his call. it's his job on the line after all. And vinjay. That's my point entirely. Why did they decide, if they did, to mess us about when there was no need to? They had the cash - we had the player. A deal probably could have been done but wasn't.

[Eddie]

Because they aren't in themselves rich, their owners are. They are entirely dependent on their owners opening up their cheque books and they may have thought that they'd rather buy a new yacht than bring in some guy called "Santa Cruz". You also don't want to turn yourselves into a doormat when it comes to negotiations. They will know that if they get abused time and time again by clubs of our stature then they will have no chance up trying to bring in players from big clubs. They did a poor job with their negotiations over January and obviously thought that getting pushed around by a struggling Blackburn side who were trying to hold onto a player who had made his desire to go to City very clear was probably a step too far.

If they really, really wanted Santa Cruz then I'm sure they would have come up with it. As it was, I'm sure they knew that at worst they could pay the same amount in the summer, but maybe they could save 5 or more million...maybe we should have forced things through before the De Jong debacle.

Perhaps because there were other strings attached? Or because the clubs we might have looked to buy from were asking for the cash upfront. It's the problem with any sort of chain. If another club sold to us, they had to be able to buy etc. Whilst it's possible to sort those sort of deals in summer with several months to get the deal through, the pressure is on in January with very little time available for the selling club to buy and reach deals etc. I don't know, and you don't, but for whatever reason, Allardyce did not want to sell and ultimately that's his call. it's his job on the line after all. And vinjay. That's my point entirely. Why did they decide, if they did, to mess us about when there was no need to? They had the cash - we had the player. A deal probably could have been done but wasn't.

Firstly, it may be Allardyce's "job on the line", but not many are treating it that way.

Secondly, we were looking at players in the price range of 5-8 million mostly and I'm sure we could have negotiated for that much up front had we wanted to and could have also avoided paying a fee up front for the strikers we wanted. Allardyce was supposed to be the master of the transfer market. He has connections. He has experience. He knows how to make a deal. He had the chance now and he didn't have the guts. My opinion of it is that we knew no one would be critical of us for holding onto him, but if he had sold him and we had gone down then the blame would have been placed squarely on Allardyce. The smart move for his reputation was to hold onto the guy and see what happened.

[Hughesy]

You cant blame for Sam over the Roque situation. The money men would of had a big say in any deal - We held out for 'our' asking price - that didnt come until the final few days, and when it did, it finally met our valuation but the payments were spread out. We had attempted to sign Janko, Crouch & Caciedo (as part of the roque move) but none of them were happening therefore we had no replacement available at a sensible price and therefore opted to hold on until the summer.

Nobody at the club could have predicted RSC would then go on to miss most of the remaining season. It just happened, bad luck, call it what you want, but we need to get on with it and worry about getting rid in the summer.

[T4E]

If we could get Darren Bent as part of the deal, then I'd be really happy. He is great in the air, is a proven goal scorer and, unlike Roque, ha a good injury record. I'd imagine he'd be well coveted in the summer though and doubt that he'd want to come to a club fighting relegation.

Agreed - no idea why he garners so little respect.

I just want Roque gone now.