[Archived] Nicko's Thread Part 3

[iamarover]

He had scrapes with some of the Chelsea players - did that stop them going all the way last season? Somebody had to have a word. It worked, but didn't make him long-term allies at the club which cost him a little in the end.

Ten Cate left Ajax because they had let him down with their promises of spending. He went to Chelsea because the 'Dutch' element at the club knew how good he was.

Maybe they didn't have Sam's number...he was about to start his long spell out of work at roughly the same time.

Fair enough. He does look quality..almost too good to be true. Right am lumping on the HTC. Kids upstairs have no idea that its Torquay or Tuscany this summer dependent on JW's business nose. Fair to say I wont be looking at the Brothers Grimm - Rovers6 and LeChuck - for advice and know how.

Here's to Dutch Courage

[hawkiiz]

Big Sam's Bolton record was:

Play-off defeat, play-off win, beat the drop, just beat the drop, mid-table, flirted with the top six and made Europe, slumped back, started dipping...quit after moaning too much.

Checking for the Champions League finals in there and the surprise title successes in unknown places.

Still looking...can someone help.

dude.

year 1 - from bottom half of championship table to losing at the playoffs. semi-finals in carling cup and FA cup

year 2 - Promotion to EPL

year 3 - Avoiding drop

year 4 - avoiding drop narrowly

year 5 - 8th in the EPL. Carling cup final

year 6 - 6th in the EPL. Equal to Liverpool. Uefa cup spot

year 7 - 8th in the EPL. knockout stages of uefa cup

year 8 - 7th in the EPL. Uefa cup spot.

He IS quality.

[RovertheHill]

I'm sorry but Joe Kinnear had a similar record with Wimbledon and a similar style of play to BFS and Bolton - doesn't make them great managers. Sometimes it clicks and you get the right people playing the right way for a period of time to be effective. But that time soon goes and then you have to adapt. And if you can't you disappear. Show me any example that BFS is not a one-trick pony (and a Charles Hughes clone at that). Show me any interview where you actually listen to him and think "he's got a point" or "that's quite inspiring". I doubt you can. Now you could ask the same about HTC but you can also say that he was and is very highly thought of within the football world and has been involved with the biggest clubs in the world and has been successful. He is a risk, but no more so than BFS, and it may be a hell of an interesting ride

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I think we are a little unkind about BFS - prior to Newcastle many fans would have jumped at the chance of him managing Rovers.

However, though my favourite is still Billic, when you look at Ten Cate's record - and many of the articles about him - he does sound the ideal man to take Rovers to the next level. A reputation for playing attractive attacking football, getting the most out of average players - and also a previous manager of Ajax - probaby the best club for nuturing young talent in Europe - all sounds good to me.

I am a little wary of assistant managers - following our experience with Kidd and Harford - but I do feel this is different as he does have a long record as a manager.

Lets not kid ourselves - we are no Barca or Chelsea - where his name might not have been big enough for the top job - but he is widely regarded as the power behind the throne in his time at Barca. I would be interested for any insight into how he was received by players at Chelski - one for Nicko to delve into ?

[nicko]

It's starting to point more and more towards Allardyce imo and really we were told a week ago in the tabloids that he was John Williams first choice. Could have got him in straightaway and avoided this interview process charade.

Well, why speak to Shearer and - sadly - get their chains pulled for a couple of days?

[LeChuck]

Nicko - still trying to understand your Mourinho/Champions League comment, it's got me a bit confused. Could you elaborate?

[philipl]

A 3x wage rise never looks wrong old boy.

Ten Cate's temper (never mind the players, he got into an uncontrollable rage at officials and anyone he could scream at in the UEFA Cup at Breda) is the one thing that frightens me about him.

Not bothered about a Management figure who upset the prima donnas at Barca and Chelsea- somebody had to- in fact HtC's management of those guys gets him bonus points from me. And Hughes' drying of the Rovers' players' hair was appropriately brutal by all accounts so our lot are not precious lambs who cannot be shouted at.

But there is a world of difference between controlled aggression as a means of extracting high performance for the next 45 minutes and an uncontrolled psychopath who gets high on the high of ranting.

[thenodrog]

I'm afraid you are wasting your time Nicko. There are some on here who have forgotten how Hughes lifted our expectations and want to take us back to the final years of Souness - happy to finish 17th or upwards. The number of comments on this thread along the lines of "BFS is the best because he can guarantee survival" is, apart from being wrong imo, very dispiriting. And frankly with that mindset we may get what we deserve - BFS

Inaccurate that. Allardyce frequently finished in the top half.

[nicko]

dude.

year 1 - from bottom half of championship table to losing at the playoffs. semi-finals in carling cup and FA cup

year 2 - Promotion to EPL

year 3 - Avoiding drop

year 4 - avoiding drop narrowly

year 5 - 8th in the EPL. Carling cup final

year 6 - 6th in the EPL. Equal to Liverpool. Uefa cup spot

year 7 - 8th in the EPL. knockout stages of uefa cup

year 8 - 7th in the EPL. Uefa cup spot.

He IS quality.

Quality? How often did you see Bolton?

If he gets it they will be dishing out Paracetomols with the season tickets.

Will Bentley and Roque have the long-ball stuff? What's the point of Tugay staying?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

A 3x wage rise never looks wrong old boy.

Ten Cate's temper (never mind the players, he got into an uncontrollable rage at officials and anyone he could scream at in the UEFA Cup at Breda) is the one thing that frightens me about him.

Not bothered about a Management figure who upset the prima donnas at Barca and Chelsea- somebody had to- in fact HtC's management of those guys gets him bonus points from me. And Hughes' drying of the Rovers' players' hair was appropriately brutal by all accounts so our lot are not precious lambs who cannot be shouted at.

But there is a world of difference between controlled aggression as a means of extracting high performance for the next 45 minutes and an uncontrolled psychopath who gets high on the high of ranting.

So your fan of Ten Cate's then

[nicko]

Nicko - still trying to understand your Mourinho/Champions League comment, it's got me a bit confused. Could you elaborate?

Never did it at Chelsea in four [?] seasons. Ten Cate did it in less than one.

[deftangel]

How does that even make sense?

What BFS achieved at Bolton is incredibly relevant, in fact it's probably the most relevant thing any candidate will have on their CV.

What was achieved at clubs whilst Ten Cate was assistant is completely irrelevant.

Selectively ignoring stints of either candidate's career makes no sense. That makes Ten Cate's career in football management as relevant to the question of who should be the next Rovers manager as Allardyce's. It makes Allardyce's last job relevant also but you're happy to put that to one side? You can't have it both ways.

Ten Cate may or may not be any good at Blackburn manager. BFS has demonstrated he is a one trick pony and capable of only playing one way, even when given 26m to spend on a squad which already had some decent talent within. We should already know what we're getting with the latter and I don't believe it'll do us any good. It's reason enough for me to put Ten Cate ahead of BFS in a two horse race, it shouldn't be good enough to give him the job. That's what the interview is for.

[RovertheHill]

dude.

year 1 - from bottom half of championship table to losing at the playoffs. semi-finals in carling cup and FA cup

year 2 - Promotion to EPL

year 3 - Avoiding drop

year 4 - avoiding drop narrowly

year 5 - 8th in the EPL. Carling cup final

year 6 - 6th in the EPL. Equal to Liverpool. Uefa cup spot

year 7 - 8th in the EPL. knockout stages of uefa cup

year 8 - 7th in the EPL. Uefa cup spot.

He IS quality.

Jesus, I know I accused Hasta of being BFS last night but I take it back. Hawkiiz is BFS clearly

[Rover9]

Lot of people within the game think Ince is a big time charlie, like when he made those disrespectful comments about us.

7. Sir Alex Ferguson: ‘Paul Ince is just a Big Time Charlie’

A camera was filming Ferguson giving his team talk for a grudge match with Liverpool when he earmarked Ince for special attention. The former England international had ended up at Anfield via Inter and, despite his contribution to the success at Old Trafford, was dismissed with three choice words from his old mentor. ‘Charlie, what’s the score?’ would be a popular chant whenever Ince returned to his old stamping ground.

This is off the 11at11 piece on setanta's website have always heard of his reputation for being big headed and didn't realise until today the comments he made about us in the past. I actually voted for him as manager but looking on these comments I wouldn't have the same opinion again, if we wern't big enough for you then you aren't big enough for US now, how times have changed. Bilic for manager

[LeChuck]

Never did it at Chelsea in four [?] seasons. Ten Cate did it in less than one.

Ten Cate never did it! It wasn't his team, he was assistant.

Unless, of course, you wish to add it to the Premier League title that Steve McClaren won. Surely he'd be ahead of Ten Cate in that case?

[Blue n White Rover]

England midfielder Bentley and Paraguay striker Roque Santa Cruz are among those being touted for possible transfers. Williams accepts that if a player wants to move it is difficult to keep him but insisted no decisions on the squad will be made until the new manager is appointed.

This annoys me a lot! JW hasn't mentioned what the situation would be if a player wanted to leave and SKY make there own assumptions on it!!

[LeChuck]

Selectively ignoring stints of either candidate's career makes no sense

I'll happily take in every single detail of every candidate's career as a manager.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Ten Cate never did it! It wasn't his team, he was assistant.

Look what happened to Barcelona when he left.

Look how well Chelsea did (unless you actually believe that was due to Grant )

Ten Cate was the brains behind both of these "managers".

[nicko]

Ten Cate never did it! It wasn't his team, he was assistant.

Unless, of course, you wish to add it to the Premier League title that Steve McClaren won. Surely he'd be ahead of Ten Cate in that case?

Don't know if you had the privilege of press conferences with Avram Grant.

Think Ten Cate might have been the brains of that operation.

Hell of a coincidence that he was at Barca and Chelsea when things went right I do agree...

[iamarover]

Nicko - still trying to understand your Mourinho/Champions League comment, it's got me a bit confused. Could you elaborate?

You remind me of one of my children who when spots the smallest of inconsistencies in my behaviour - eg leaving cheese on toast plates on the floor after a barnstorming night - proceeds then to try and demand massive changes in rules, cash and general house order. Jesus, just go Ner ner na ner ner and be done with it.

Like BFS? Fine. Not sure about HTC? Fine.

Fact is, whatever your point of view on here...don't sneer. Don't jeer. Be respectful and be Arte and Labore. Never forget you are a Rover. Now behave like one.

[Blue n White Rover]

You remind me of one of my children who when spots the smallest of inconsistencies in my behaviour - eg leaving cheese on toast plates on the floor after a barnstorming night - proceeds then to try and demand massive changes in rules, cash and general house order. Jesus, just go Ner ner na ner ner and be done with it.

Like BFS? Fine. Not sure about HTC? Fine.

Fact is, whatever your point of view on here...don't sneer. Don't jeer. Be respectful and be Arte and Labore. Never forget you are a Rover. Now behave like one.

Jesus! sound like my old man

[iamarover]

7. Sir Alex Ferguson: ‘Paul Ince is just a Big Time Charlie’

A camera was filming Ferguson giving his team talk for a grudge match with Liverpool when he earmarked Ince for special attention. The former England international had ended up at Anfield via Inter and, despite his contribution to the success at Old Trafford, was dismissed with three choice words from his old mentor. ‘Charlie, what’s the score?’ would be a popular chant whenever Ince returned to his old stamping ground.

This is off the 11at11 piece on setanta's website have always heard of his reputation for being big headed and didn't realise until today the comments he made about us in the past. I actually voted for him as manager but looking on these comments I wouldn't have the same opinion again, if we wern't big enough for you then you aren't big enough for US now, how times have changed. Bilic for manager

Can someone post on here Ince's anti Rovers comments? Not sure what they were or when. If relevant JW needs to know

[RevidgeBlue]

Well, why speak to Shearer and - sadly - get their chains pulled for a couple of days?

We texted him (unbelievable in itself) he rang us back, further discussions presumably took place as a result of which Shearer seemingly ruled himself of the running without us wasting any more of our time interviewing him.

Fail to see how he's done anything wrong.

With all due respect Alan it seems to me you have the huff with Shearer because you previously championed him as an exciting appointment and he wasn't just another Andy Gray, in your view he had a lot more about him than that etc. etc.

[LeChuck]

Don't know if you had the privilege of press conferences with Avram Grant.

Think Ten Cate might have been the brains of that operation.

Hell of a coincidence that he was at Barca and Chelsea when things went right I do agree...

Where was the supposed attacking, goal-scoring football if Ten Cate really was the guy in charge? I thought that was his trade-mark?

You remind me of one of my children who when spots the smallest of inconsistencies in my behaviour - eg leaving cheese on toast plates on the floor after a barnstorming night - proceeds then to try and demand massive changes in rules, cash and general house order. Jesus, just go Ner ner na ner ner and be done with it.

Like BFS? Fine. Not sure about HTC? Fine.

Fact is, whatever your point of view on here...don't sneer. Don't jeer. Be respectful and be Arte and Labore. Never forget you are a Rover. Now behave like one.

As far as I'm aware, I haven't jeered or sneered, sorry if it appears like I have been.

I'm not sure why you quoted the post you did though, it was a genuine question because I was trying to think about what it meant, Nicko does like to talk in riddles occasionally (not a criticism before you bite my head off) so I thought maybe I was missing the point.

[spencey7]

Managers who started off as assistants:

- Sven Goran Eriksson (to Tord Grip at Degerfors)

- Carlos Alberto Parreira (Brazil Olympic team 1972)

- Guus Hiddink (at De Graafschap)

- Jose Mourinho (to Louis Van Gaal at Barcelona)

- Marcello Lippi (at Sampdoria)

- Louis Van Haal (to Leo Beenhakker at Ajax)

- Rafa Benitez (to Vincente Del Bosque at Real Madrid)

There are many others.

Kind of pales in irrelevance to "Kidd, Harford, McClaren".