[Archived] Nicko's Thread Part 3

[Dunnfc]

WHAT ARE YOU LOT PLAYING AT! WHY SHOULD BRFC SETTLE?

Why settle for Big Sam lets cast the net out and try and get these big names like Landrup, Bilic if this club is going to be a top 6 team we need to show ambition and that applies to the fans! if we can't get them then plump for Martinez etc. Don't give up hope we will find someone who will raise Rovers up again we just need to have a positive attitude and have a little faith in our chairman John Williams who has been remarkable since hes been here.

We are a great club and anyone wishing to apply to be the next Rovers manager better be saying prayers because we might not have 70,000 tourists taking pictures of your Ronaldos, Rooneys etc but what we have is 23,000 SPECIAL supporters who turn up and love Blackburn Rovers and bleed blue and white. We are the real football fans we know what its like to be in the dark times and we know all about the good times so lets not give up, have faith!

[hawkiiz]

Quality? How often did you see Bolton?

If he gets it they will be dishing out Paracetomols with the season tickets.

Will Bentley and Roque have the long-ball stuff? What's the point of Tugay staying?

i saw enough of bolton to be impressed. as a fan i want good results and top half finishes. we may well get that with any of the mentioned managers, but i feel BFS is the most likely to succeed. i would appreciate ten cate aswell but out of the people i think stand a chance of getting/wanting the job there is no doub in my mind that Sam is the man. if we dont need roque of bents for his style of play, then its better to cash in anyway. there will be players in and out no matter who takes charge. thats part of getting a new manager.

[philipl]

So your fan of Ten Cate's then

You have got to take the big picture and with HtC comes the psychopath with the superb coaching and ability to handle players from journeymen to the best side probably in Barca's history.

My order of preference is,

1 Bilic

2 Laudrup

3 HtC

But I don't feel passionately because I am not close enough top have any detailed knowledge about how they react and perform in different challenging circumstances. I will be delighted if anyone of those three gets it.

And BFS is sufficiently low in the running for the Rovers job apparently that I guess two of those three must have applied (HtC and one other- both others if we are very lucky)

[LeChuck]

Managers who started off as assistants:

...but, Ten Cate hasn't started off as an assistant.

He had a good 13 years as a mediocre manager before becoming an assistant and managing to make a name for himself.

[Manchester Blue]

Big Sam plays ONE way and ONE way only. I quite like the fella, but you have enough trouble filling your stadium.

To appoint him is to admit you are going to be also-rans and just happy to get by.

To appoint Ten Cate would be imaginative and exciting.

What do you want?

Just highlighting this as I dont think i've seen it summed up better anywhere, even if it was Ten Cate I just want an appointment that would be exciting. I can fully understand logic people have for wantingt fatso but I just think many, many fans will be put off and turned away. It's all well and good saying results will bring the crowds in but that hasn't been the case in the past for us. Serve up sh1te and people will choose to spend their hard earned elsewhere.

[nicko]

We texted him (unbelievable in itself) he rang us back, further discussions presumably took place as a result of which Shearer seemingly ruled himself of the running without us wasting any more of our time interviewing him.

Fail to see how he's done anything wrong.

With all due respect Alan it seems to me you have the huff with Shearer because you previously championed him as an exciting appointment and he wasn't just another Andy Gray, in your view he had a lot more about him than that etc. etc.

There was a lot more going on than that. If it's not in the Mirror tomorrow I will expand even more.

In brief - he wanted it, started trying to dictate terms and clauses and then pulled out when he wasn't getting his own way.

I think you will find he has been wasting the club's time over two very important days.

Yes, I'm huffed with that kind of behaviour.

I did say that he was only a candidate. He didn't even behave like that sadly.

[BuckyRover]

i saw enough of bolton to be impressed. as a fan i want good results and top half finishes. we may well get that with any of the mentioned managers, but i feel BFS is the most likely to succeed. i would appreciate ten cate aswell but out of the people i think stand a chance of getting/wanting the job there is no doub in my mind that Sam is the man. if we dont need roque of bents for his style of play, then its better to cash in anyway. there will be players in and out no matter who takes charge. thats part of getting a new manager.

HE CANNOT DO IT WITH GOOD PLAYERS

He tried to play long ball with Owen and Martins. Geremi took every throw as a long throw (allegedly). Why do you want this?

We deserve better. It would be horrific!

[alexanders]

Where was the supposed attacking, goal-scoring football if Ten Cate really was the guy in charge? I thought that was his trade-mark?

Chelsea played a lot more entertaining football under Grant/HTC then Mourinho.

[spencey7]

Let us not forget that it took Allardyce THREE SEASONS in the Premiership to achieve a top 8 finish, and three seasons before that to implement his "style" and ethos on the club.

Then:

He moves to Newcastle, spends £26m, sends them hurtling towards relegation playing hideous football, gets sacked, and becomes favourite for our job.

Brilliant.

[RevidgeBlue]

There was a lot more going on than that. If it's not in the Mirror tomorrow I will expand even more.

In brief - he wanted it, started trying to dictate terms and clauses and then pulled out when he wasn't getting his own way.

1) OK thanks.

2) If he was digging his heels in about the sort of budget he wanted, might not have been such a bad thing.

[thenodrog]

England midfielder Bentley and Paraguay striker Roque Santa Cruz are among those being touted for possible transfers. Williams accepts that if a player wants to move it is difficult to keep him but insisted no decisions on the squad will be made until the new manager is appointed.

This annoys me a lot! JW hasn't mentioned what the situation would be if a player wanted to leave and SKY make there own assumptions on it!!

As I have said frequently they are all for sale as far as I am concerned! Profits from RSC and Bentley would represent great business for a small club with limited resources like ourselves BUT only when we have lined up replacements that are equally as good. Hughes could do it to perfection but before him manager after manager sold players without adequately replacing them and continually weakening the clubs situation.

[nicko]

I know it's a bit long but this is from the wikipedia Ten Cate run-down.

After his playing career Ten Cate became assistant manager of Fritz Korbach at Go Ahead Eagles, playing in the Eerste Divisie. When Korbach moved to SC Heerenveen in February 1990 Ten Cate took over as a manager. He managed to win period title, which earned an Eerste Divisie side a place in the promotion play-offs at the end of the season. In these play-offs Go Ahead Eagles placed equal with Korbach's SC Heerenveen, but Heerenveen promoted to the Eredivisie on goal difference.

Ten Cate left Go Ahead Eagles and returned to one of the other teams he was active at during his playing career, SC Heracles where he became the assistant of manager Henk van Brussel. When Van Brussel was unable to finish the season due to health problems in November 1990 Ten Cate became the first team manager and led SC Heracles until 1992, when he was told his contract was no longer extended. He moved to the club where his football career started, amateur side FC Rheden and managed them for one year.In 1993 Go Ahead Eagles appointed Ten Cate yet again as their manager, this time to replace Jan Versleijen who left the club to manage De Graafschap. In his first year he did well, but when Go Ahead Eagles was at the bottom of the Eerste Divisie during the winter break of the 1994-95 season he was fired. Eredivisie side Sparta Rotterdam offered him a contract and he led the team to a sixth position in the Eredivisie in 1996, they also reached the final of the KNVB Cup that year, which was lost to PSV Eindhoven 5-2.

In the 1997-98 winter break Ten Cate switched to manage Vitesse, which he led to their best Eredivisie ranking in their history, a third position with records in both the number of points won as the number of scored goals. After a disappointing start in the following season he left Vitesse and led KFC Uerdingen 05 until March 1999 without success. In the 1999-00 season he managed Hungarian side MTK Hungária FC to win the Hungarian Cup and a runners-up place in the PNB League. He returned to the Netherlands and became manager of NAC Breda which he led until 2003 earning them a spot in the UEFA Cup for the 2003-04 season.

He joined Frank Rijkaard at FC Barcelona and became his assistant manager. Together they managed Barça to a Champions League Trophy and two La Liga titles. In 2006 he replaced Danny Blind as manager at Ajax, where he won the Johan Cruijff-schaal in 2006 and 2007 and the KNVB Cup in 2007. Ajax finished equal on points with PSV Eindhoven in the Eredivisie in 2006, only to be denied the championship by a single goal in goal difference.

[nicko]

1) OK thanks.

2) If he was digging his heels in about the sort of budget he wanted, might not have been such a bad thing.

It wasn't about budget...it was about him.

[spencey7]

...but, Ten Cate hasn't started off as an assistant.

"After his playing career Ten Cate became assistant manager of Fritz Korbach at Go Ahead Eagles, playing in the Eerste Divisie."

[BuckyRover]

He went on a journey with that Bolton team. He nurtured it up from the Championship. They all knew what he was about and was able to teach his style of play over many years. People who joined knew what Bolton were about and were happy with it.

When he went to Newcastle he tried to change them from a team that tried to play good football to a non-entertaining, long ball team. It didn't go down well. The players didn't want to perform for him. He fell out with the BBC. He is man on a downward spiral. Not able to adapt.

The Premiership is about good football. Aesthetic football. We need someone that can have a go. We are not cloggers, we have been trying to disprove that negative image for a good few seasons.

I used to dislike BFS when he was at Bolton, and I still do now. It's totally the wrong message

[Parsonblue]

Can anyone not busy tomorrow get down to Ewood/Brockhall (or better still find where BFS is staying and take out an important component from his car's engine so it doesn't start.) If I could I'd drive the 217 miles just to shout "no to BFS". Got meetings though so can't.

PLEASE

Personally, I'd be quite happy to get down to Ewood/Brockhall to welcome Allardyce. Shearer didn't fancy it and Ten Cate is a totally unknown quantity in terms of working with a limited budget in the Premier League. At least Big Sam would keep us afloat in the top division and has the ability to wheel and deal in the transfer market with little money.

However, at the end of the day John Williams and co will select the man they feel can take the club forward. They will have far more information about the candidates than we have and, more importantly, they will have listened to how each man proposes to build on the success of Hughes.

Ultimately, whether we agree with the choice or not surely we should all get behind the new manager and support the club. For supporters to get on the back of the manager, whoever he is, is surest way I know to close the gap between the Rovers and Burnley - and I for one don't fancy life back in the Championship!

[thenodrog]

In brief - he wanted it, started trying to dictate terms and clauses and then pulled out when he wasn't getting his own way.

Panathinaikos / Laudrup?

[Plastic Head]

Ten Cate left Ajax because they had let him down with their promises of spending.

Well he won't have that problem with us will he...!!!

[deftangel]

Let us not forget that it took Allardyce THREE SEASONS in the Premiership to achieve a top 8 finish, and three seasons before that to implement his "style" and ethos on the club.

Then:

He moves to Newcastle, spends £26m, sends them hurtling towards relegation playing hideous football, gets sacked, and becomes favourite for our job.

Brilliant.

And without Jay Jay Okocha and Djorkjeff(sp) desperate to get back into the French side it would never have gotten that far. In the early Premiership years at least, Bolton never had a good team, just the foresight to get those two players in. That in itself deserves some credit admittedly but the scope of Allardyce's achievements at the Reebok are pretty limited. He'd have got found out this year had he stayed, I'm convinced of that.

Moreover, I've yet to see and BFS apologists sufficiently answer why he's failed to find another job since being sacked by the Barcodes yet funnily enough other candidates are being linked with openings quite readily. Perhaps he can spend next year playing Champ Man with McClaren and have done with it?

[spencey7]

At least Big Sam would keep us afloat in the top division.

NO HE WON'T.

See:- United, Newcastle.

[RevidgeBlue]

I know it's a bit long but this is from the wikipedia Ten Cate run-down.

After his playing career Ten Cate became assistant manager of Fritz Korbach at Go Ahead Eagles, playing in the Eerste Divisie. When Korbach moved to SC Heerenveen in February 1990 Ten Cate took over as a manager. He managed to win period title, which earned an Eerste Divisie side a place in the promotion play-offs at the end of the season. In these play-offs Go Ahead Eagles placed equal with Korbach's SC Heerenveen, but Heerenveen promoted to the Eredivisie on goal difference.

Ten Cate left Go Ahead Eagles and returned to one of the other teams he was active at during his playing career, SC Heracles where he became the assistant of manager Henk van Brussel. When Van Brussel was unable to finish the season due to health problems in November 1990 Ten Cate became the first team manager and led SC Heracles until 1992, when he was told his contract was no longer extended. He moved to the club where his football career started, amateur side FC Rheden and managed them for one year.In 1993 Go Ahead Eagles appointed Ten Cate yet again as their manager, this time to replace Jan Versleijen who left the club to manage De Graafschap. In his first year he did well, but when Go Ahead Eagles was at the bottom of the Eerste Divisie during the winter break of the 1994-95 season he was fired. Eredivisie side Sparta Rotterdam offered him a contract and he led the team to a sixth position in the Eredivisie in 1996, they also reached the final of the KNVB Cup that year, which was lost to PSV Eindhoven 5-2.

In the 1997-98 winter break Ten Cate switched to manage Vitesse, which he led to their best Eredivisie ranking in their history, a third position with records in both the number of points won as the number of scored goals. After a disappointing start in the following season he left Vitesse and led KFC Uerdingen 05 until March 1999 without success. In the 1999-00 season he managed Hungarian side MTK Hungária FC to win the Hungarian Cup and a runners-up place in the PNB League. He returned to the Netherlands and became manager of NAC Breda which he led until 2003 earning them a spot in the UEFA Cup for the 2003-04 season.

He joined Frank Rijkaard at FC Barcelona and became his assistant manager. Together they managed Barça to a Champions League Trophy and two La Liga titles. In 2006 he replaced Danny Blind as manager at Ajax, where he won the Johan Cruijff-schaal in 2006 and 2007 and the KNVB Cup in 2007. Ajax finished equal on points with PSV Eindhoven in the Eredivisie in 2006, only to be denied the championship by a single goal in goal difference.

Very mixed isn't it, some success interspersed with seemingly quite a few failures.

A bit reminiscent of Souness's managerial career? Possibly not too dissimilar in personality either.

Could someone who knows more about Dutch football correct me on this, but wouldn't finishing second in the Dutch League with Ajax be a bit like finishing second in Scotland with Celtic or Rangers?

[tony gale's mic]

For those worried about ten Cate's assistant manager pedigree - one name: Carlos Queiroz.

Like ten Cate he's managed clubs, most of them not particularly big (hes also managed South Africa too), but he managed Real Madrid for a season (ten Cate managed Ajax for a season).

However, like ten Cate he's now assistant managing at one of the world's biggest clubs and is regarded as one of the best assistants going.

Now he's being talked about as future United manager.

Surely ten Cate with all his contacts, managerial achievements and experience should be thought of as good enough for us?

We're not going to be able to appoint a manager who we can be 100% confident will succeed. Not a club like us, there'll be doubts whoever we appoint unless Mourinho turns his back on Inter for Rovers. But with ten Cate we give ourselves the best chance of doing so.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

You have got to take the big picture and with HtC comes the psychopath with the superb coaching and ability to handle players from journeymen to the best side probably in Barca's history.

My order of preference is,

1 Bilic

2 Laudrup

3 HtC

But I don't feel passionately because I am not close enough top have any detailed knowledge about how they react and perform in different challenging circumstances. I will be delighted if anyone of those three gets it.

And BFS is sufficiently low in the running for the Rovers job apparently that I guess two of those three must have applied (HtC and one other- both others if we are very lucky)

I agree about Billic - he would be my first choice - but he has also struck me as a somewhat volatile character at times.

A volatile, passionate manager - be that Billic or HtC - will undoutably raise the profile of the club. Get us playing attractive, attacking football (and most important winning) - no matter the flaws in their character - and they will get many peoples vote.

[cn_barlow]

i can see both sides of the argument here in regards to BFS and HTC.

Earlier posters have made some good points:

Sam will not have the time to chage the way we play football into what he did at Bolton - if he tries, it will be a repeat of Newcastle.

Ten Cate is in no way comparable to Kidd - kidd had no managerial experience, Ten Cate has done a good job at pretty much everywhere he has been. Its pretty obvious to everyone but the big Sam fan club that the guy had an impact at chelsea and barca

I'd rather take a risk on Ten Cate that aims to take the club forward than aim consolidate with Fat Sam and go backwards anyway because he/the players cant adapt their style quick enough. Fair enough things could go tits up with Ten Cate - but has he been anywhere and made a complete balls up? i dont think so. Has big sam? yes - and i beleive we a more of a newcastle than a bolton in terms of the players we have!

[deftangel]

Could someone who knows more about Dutch football correct me on this, but wouldn't finishing second in the Dutch League with Ajax be a bit like finishing second in Scotland with Celtic or Rangers?

In their pomp during the 90's perhaps but now, not so. This millenium, PSV have won it 6 times including the last four on the bounce.