[Archived] Nicko's Thread Part 3

[Plastic Head]

Unlikely to hear any criticism or indeed cynicism from either of those paragons of strict BBC impariality, Hansen or Lawrenson for the bottler Shearer.

Whoever comes in now for us can expect a rough ride from the old boys network at Shepherds Bush.

I thought they didn't comment on the tenth game on MOTD???

[Parsonblue]

He has been there and done it, he has managed clubs of a similar size and budget as your own.

He has worked with top players and knows how to organise them, he knows how to mould teams with lesser players.

Big Sam plays ONE way and ONE way only. I quite like the fella, but you have enough trouble filling your stadium.

To appoint him is to admit you are going to be also-rans and just happy to get by.

To appoint Ten Cate would be imaginative and exciting.

What do you want?

I don't want to risk the future of the club on someone who has been a very successful assistant, as had some success in other European Leagues but who has not managed in the Premier League. If Ten Cate arrived, played really exciting, attacking football and we lost every week do you really think the stadium would be full?

The main priority is to remain in the Premier League and not join the likes of Burnley, Preston and Blackpool in the Championship. I would rather be watching Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United etc than living on a diet of Ipswich Town, Coventry City, Plymouth Argyle and the rest.

[spencey7]

I don't want to risk the future of the club on someone who has been a very successful assistant, as had some success in other European Leagues but who has not managed in the Premier League. If Ten Cate arrived, played really exciting, attacking football and we lost every week do you really think the stadium would be full?

The main priority is to remain in the Premier League and not join the likes of Burnley, Preston and Blackpool in the Championship. I would rather be watching Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United etc than living on a diet of Ipswich Town, Coventry City, Plymouth Argyle and the rest.

DO YOU REMEMBER ALLARDYCE AT NEWCASTLE?

Please provide a justification for the fact you believe a potential spell at Ewood would be any less disastrous.

[nicko]

I don't want to risk the future of the club on someone who has been a very successful assistant, as had some success in other European Leagues but who has not managed in the Premier League. If Ten Cate arrived, played really exciting, attacking football and we lost every week do you really think the stadium would be full?

The main priority is to remain in the Premier League and not join the likes of Burnley, Preston and Blackpool in the Championship. I would rather be watching Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United etc than living on a diet of Ipswich Town, Coventry City, Plymouth Argyle and the rest.

Fine...I look forward to long throws, set-pieces, stats, Kevin Davies's return, the emptying seats.

Give it someone who might make it interesting.

Dare to dream, eh.

[tony gale's mic]

I don't want to risk the future of the club on someone who has been a very successful assistant, as had some success in other European Leagues but who has not managed in the Premier League. If Ten Cate arrived, played really exciting, attacking football and we lost every week do you really think the stadium would be full?

The main priority is to remain in the Premier League and not join the likes of Burnley, Preston and Blackpool in the Championship. I would rather be watching Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United etc than living on a diet of Ipswich Town, Coventry City, Plymouth Argyle and the rest.

The guy does also have a reputation for doing well with small clubs in Holland, he's managed quite a lot during his career. But the fact he's also assistant managed at big clubs will have done wonders for his experience you'd hope. Plus, both managers he was assistant to (Riijkaard and Grant) were relative novices in their roles and yet both went on to do a great job. You'd hope again that ten Cate had a considerable amount to do with both.

[RevidgeBlue]

This is the wikipedia entry relating to Ajax the club whilst HTC was in charge:

Edit: missed a bit out, now included at the top.

New coach Henk ten Cate, who won the Champions League and La Liga in 2006 as the assistant of Frank Rijkaard with FC Barcelona gave youngsters a shot to enter the selection of the first team. Ten Cate said youngsters Jan Vertonghen, Rydell Poepon and Robbert Schilder would be included in the selection, whereas Greek forward Angelos Charisteas was sold to Feyenoord. Ten Cate announced that he wished to return to form and win the Eredivisie in 2007.

Ajax missed out on a Champions League place in 2006/2007 after their defeat against FC Copenhagen (3-2 on aggregate). As a result, Ajax played against IK Start from Norway in the first round of the UEFA Cup September 14 and 28, and won the match 9-2 on aggregate (2-5 away and 4-0 home). Having then gotten through the Group Stage, they drew German club Werder Bremen in the Round of 32. In the first leg in Germany, Ajax lost 3-0. On the return leg in Amsterdam, they rallied for two second half goals to win 3-1, but lost 4-3 in aggregate.

In the 2006-07 season Ajax also achieved some successes with Henk ten Cate in charge. They won the Johan Cruijff Shield after a 3-1 win over rivals PSV and they also beat AZ 8-9 on penalties in the Dutch Cup final after a 1-1 draw after extra time. Ajax was very close to clinch the Eredivisie title after deducting a 10 point deficit from PSV, but lost it on goal difference on the last matchday to PSV (PSV: 75-25, Ajax 84-35).

In the following 2007-08 season Ajax sold two of the biggest talents, Ryan Babel for 17 million Euros to Liverpool and Wesley Sneijder for 27 million Euros to Real Madrid. Luis Suárez came from FC Groningen to replace Ryan Babel. Ajax decided not to buy a replacement for Wesley Sneijder because of the difficulty in finding a similar-position type of player to replace him and also because the deal was finished close to the transfer deadline and Ajax would not rush though any signings.

These events together with Edgar Davids breaking a leg disrupted the preparation for the qualification games for a Champions League place. Opponent Slavia Prague won both matches; with a 2-1 scoreline in Prague and 0-1 victory in Amsterdam. The failure to clinch a position in the Champions League group stage led to great critism from both the supporters and the media, mainly directed at Henk ten Cate and the board of directors. A 1-0 victory over PSV for the Johan Cruiff Shield could not make up for the loss of a Champions League spot. Despite quite a good start in the competition with a lot of goals from both Luis Suárez and Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, Ajax lost ground again in Europe after not making it to the group phase of the UEFA Cup; managing a 0-1 win away against Dinamo Zagreb but lost the tie in Amsterdam after extra time with the score 2-3 to Dinamo. With these string of European failures, coach Ten Cate has already failed to lead the team to the Champions League group stage for two seasons in a row and no European football at the ArenA for the remainder of the 2007/2008 season. With this result, Ten Cate lost the confidence of the supporters who demanded that the board sack him. A more viable solution came when Chelsea (in the same week) offered Ten Cate the job of assistant manager with a 3-year deal. On Tuesday 9 October Ten Cate left Ajax. Adrie Koster was selected to helm the squad. On 29 October 2007, captain Jaap Stam announced his immediate retirement from professional football, because of a lack of motivation to continue.

[nicko]

So the financial problems at Ajax are confirmed?

[RovertheHill]

I don't want to risk the future of the club on someone who has been a very successful assistant, as had some success in other European Leagues but who has not managed in the Premier League. If Ten Cate arrived, played really exciting, attacking football and we lost every week do you really think the stadium would be full?

The main priority is to remain in the Premier League and not join the likes of Burnley, Preston and Blackpool in the Championship. I would rather be watching Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United etc than living on a diet of Ipswich Town, Coventry City, Plymouth Argyle and the rest.

This is the point I was making earlier TheNodrog. Not about BFS's record but about the expectation level and justification for employing him i.e. to survive. Fantastic. Can't wait

[tony gale's mic]

End of the day - every manager we might appoint carries their risks. We can't appoint a no risk manager like the top 4 can. But for me ten Cate has the most potential, with his experience, contacts, reputation for attacking football etc.

[nicko]

Last thought for the night.

Phil Scolari has NO Premier League managerial experience - not too much at club level lately either.

He can be a bit volatile too.

No, you're right, give it to Big Sam...

[RevidgeBlue]

So the financial problems at Ajax are confirmed?

I don't know but it appears bizarrely that HTC's European record as a manager at Ajax was exactly the same as Sparky's at Blackburn.

Two Uefa Cup campaigns, one failure to reach the group stages, one exit at the round of 32 stage.

Given the size and European pedigree of the respective clubs I'd say Sparky's was by far the better achievement.

[Mozzer]

with alan shearer out the running-surely theres only one guy who should get the job-henk ten cate..

comparing his cv to the like of sam allardyce, mclaren and paul ince he should definatly be picked-but if they decided they wanted a british manager i suppose i would prefer allardyce to mclaren or ince..

how many times has allardyce been spoken to by rovers now??

[spencey7]

In all seriousness, someone needs to get down to Ewood tomorrow with some general anti-Allardyce banners and sentiment - This is too important not to do something about. I'm leaving for London first thing tomorrow morning, but can anyone help??

[CircoWill]

Im not surprised Shearer has acted the way he has. He's in danger of never becoming a manager - smacks of someone who lacks confidence in his managerial ability.

I really hope it is not Allerdyce now though.

If the likes of Laudrup, Bilic and Ten Cate could be tempted, we have to look at those options before Sam. I'd also take Ince ahead of Allardyce.

Off to Rome for five days tomorrow. What's the betting we'll still be in the dark when I return?

[Plastic Head]

In all seriousness, someone needs to get down to Ewood tomorrow with some general anti-Allardyce banners and sentiment - This is too important not to do something about. I'm leaving for London first thing tomorrow morning, but can anyone help??

I have passed my thoughts on Sam to my next door neighbour - who is an (un-named) official at the club.

I parked on a double yellow line outside the ground today.

My dog had a P!ss on the corner of the Riverside.

What more can I do.....

Theres no-one down there at the moment anyway apart from the groundsmen.

[daren]

Well that was a waste of bandwidth - LeChuck, the major difference between Kidd, McClaren and Harford and ten Cate is that ten Cate's stint as assistant manager at the big clubs was with novice managers who badly needed both his tactical awareness and player management skills. Before his arrival at Chelsea they were a mess, and it tightened up almost immediately, and Barcelona all but fell apart after he left.

He's been very successful as the bad cop in a good-cop bad-cop relationship, and there's no reason that could not continue if he gets the right assistant - he can be the bad-cop and the assistant can be the good cop. Choice of assistant in this instance is extremely important and I would LOVE it to be someone like Martinez (yes, I really want that man at the club. No evidence, just a feeling).

His previous management record is mixed, but it steadily improved over time and you feel that he HAS to make it now or he's the perennial assistant. If this doesn't give him a level of hunger then I've no idea what will. His contacts all over europe have got to be unparallelled and he has an inside line to the Ajax youth academy and presumably is familiar with the barcelona one also, so he could have useful insights there.

I have to agree with other posters, if BFS gets the job, sure I'll keep supporting rovers, but I'll be disappointed. I want an appointment that has an element of positivity about it - and BFS, god bless the chap, does NOT have that. You clearly feel that he can consolidate the club but I genuinely thing that it's at best a step sideways. I want a leap in the air

And for gods sake, please not Ince. I'd be sick if that puffed up egomaniac (some thought was required for a word that wasn't really bad) got his hands on our club. I never liked him when he was playing, and I don't like him now. I feel sick even thinking about it. I also worry about his standing in the game, I believe that he's not very popular at all (the "big time charlie" comments jump to mind) and that cannot help. Better an unknown than someone no-one wants to play for.

Edit: forgot to mention...

Laudrup I'm not sure about - depends on what his attitude is toward clauses about spain and the like.

Bilic would be excellent, but I see it as unlikely.

[mjs]

HTC's CV is far from convincing.

He is quite clearly a more successful number 2. I just get the feeling he isn't the right man for us.

I am totally underwhelmed by the so called short list, I just hope there is a pleasant surprise in store for us somewhere.

[tony gale's mic]

HTC's CV is far from convincing.

He is quite clearly a more successful number 2. I just get the feeling he isn't the right man for us.

I am totally underwhelmed by the so called short list, I just hope there is a pleasant surprise in store for us somewhere.

Who is the right man?! Bilic and Laudrup havent shown any interest as far as we know.

Remember when Sparky came we were all happy, but thats because we were in the relegation zone.

How would we feel now if a Wales manager with no club management experience was to take over our club? Quite differently I'd imagine.

This man has more positives than anyone else going. Sure he's got negatives but it is impossible for us to appoint a candidate without potential negatives.

[Boz]

Just a feeling...if Rovers supporters don't shout out NOW, they will end up with BFS.

Following The Boards public rebuff tonight, they will quickly come under pressure to appoint the supposedly safer/cheaper option.

I know that they are aware of supporters perceptions of BFS and if the tide swings a little in that direction, they might feel vindicated a little for having no choices left and appointing BFS.

HTC for me.

[jprover4life]

sorry just have to butt in here an say HENK TEN CATE FOR MANAGER! not allardyce, that would be the WORST THING THAT COULD EVER HAPPEN TO ROVERS!!!

[spencey7]

Just a feeling...if Rovers supporters don't shout out NOW, they will end up with BFS.

Following The Boards public rebuff tonight, they will quickly come under pressure to appoint the supposedly safer/cheaper option.

I know that they are aware of supporters perceptions of BFS and if the tide swings a little in that direction, they might feel vindicated a little for having no choices left and appointing BFS.

HTC for me.

Precisely, this is exactly what I'm scared of happening. If Allardyce is allowed to be appointed it will be the beginning of the end of Blackburn as a top-flight club. WE HAVE TO STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING.

Please let someone from the board be reading this forum. See the strength of feeling against Allardyce. Remember the shambles at Newcastle. Don't do it to us.

[RevidgeBlue]

I think Bilic has a real spark about him, a certain "je ne sais quoi". He does also seem a logical candidate in many respects, only on 130k p.a. and should be a rich source of affordable untapped talent from that part of the world. However there's no evidence that either he or Laudrup have expressed any interest in the post.

In light of the more likely alternatives mentioned I'm praying we get Ince, if we miss out on him I will start getting seriously worried.

Personally I don't mind Allardyce at all but I can't see how he could be a success given the strngth of the groundswell of ill feeling towards him.

[Presty On Tour]

If Bilic was approached by JW and said he would only take the Rovers job if he could carry on with Croatia also, would we accept that?

[RevidgeBlue]

If Bilic was approached by JW and said he would only take the Rovers job if he could carry on with Croatia also, would we accept that?

Is my memory playing tricks on me or did Hughes initially manage Rovers and Wales simultaneously for an agreed period until they had concluded a qualifying campaign?

Would be a lot more problematic with Bilic probably due to the distances involved.

[Presty On Tour]

no hughes didn't, it has been done before though with Hiddink i think?