[Archived] Rangers In Manchester

[frosty]

By all accounts though, I don't think Manchester was prepared for such an influx.

No city would have been able to handle that.

Anyway, Manchester has held a Champions League Final and a Commonwealth Games in the past few years without anything like that, it's just the Rangers fans, that's all.

The same Rangers fans that urinated on statues in Barcelona. They should be severely punished.

[McClarky]

I don't think its fair to punish Celtic or Rangers for having phenominal support. The level of pontification (apologies for using that word in connection with Rangers) on here is, as usual, to be laughed at. I have followed Rovers for 30 odd years and have seen some fairly anti-social behaviour but we are hardley likely to bring a city to a standstill because of the smaller numbers involved. In Amsterdam last year there was plenty of singing racist songs in the town at night but we only had 3,000 or so there rather than 150,000 so it went unnoticed by the media. Speaking as an Englishman I douby whether anyone will be listening to the English complaining about people invading their towns and causing mayhem do you?

[Paul]

Good grief we are a bunch of goody goodies. While I don't condone, nor understand, why anyone going to watch a football match needs or wants to drink vast quantities of alcohol, people urinating in the street, no doubt behaving generally very badly in other ways, assaulting police officers or stabbing a fellow fan, only 30 people were arrested, perhaps 500 "rioted" (if we want to be emotive) out of an estimated 200,000. I'd put a £1 to 1p you could walk around Manchester city centre any night and find idiots totally wasted, vomitting and urinating in the street. There doesn't have to be a football match on for people to behave like this, you can find people under the influence of excessive alcohol behaving just as badly any Saturday in any sizeable town in England.

[RovertheHill]

I went into the city for a 6-30pm appointment yesterday made months ago (just my luck) and whilst it's true there was general goodwill and a party atmosphere at that time, it was also true that the majority were p*ssed out of their heads. Not sure what the city could have done other than maybe have some spare parts and a couple of big screen engineers at the ready. Same old tired and irrelevant excuses being rolled out that it was a minority etc etc. Plenty of footage about to suggest it was more than 15 and frankly that copper is lucky he managed to stay conscious and get out of the way before something more serious happened to him.

[adopted scouser]

Yes Paul, but they are more inclined to take on low numbers of Police officers when they have 149,800 drunken mates behind them.

Not like a few drunks in town on a Saturday night.

[Ozz]

I tell you what I bet it was quiet in Glasgow last night.

Bizarre events last night, and the preceeding 24hours in the North West, with sightings all over the place. Unprecedented situation really, so very hard to make any satisfactory arrangements to cater for so many people. 150,000 people on the ###### for 24 hours, no surprise that it kicked off really is it?

[Hasta]

Not really a suprise Ozzie. I just had to laugh at the reports this morning that it was the police's fault and they had been heavy-handed.

All we've seen released is the CCTV footage of the copper getting a kicking and various footage of cars getting trashed and Rangers fans fighting each other.

Now this could be the same mob of 150 people but I doubt it. I'd say there were numerous pockets of Rangers fans causing trouble. I'd also say there is a hell of a lot of incidents that we'll never know about as they weren't caught or haven't been released on CCTV. When the secretary of the Rangers supporters association is saying ""There is no excuse for it to be honest. From what I saw before the game there was no need for attacking paramedics and the police, it is indefensible."

There may only be a small number charged with offences but I bet the number that commited an offence is many many more.

It's a freakish level of people for any City to cater for. The fact Manchester is probably the easiest English city to travel to from Glasgow makes it worse. Maybe some restriction on the drinking hours or not allowing on-street drinking would have been advisable but again with so many numbers its too difficul to control. It's a sad situation. The reputation of Rangers fans is smeered but to be honest given the circumstances it was a freakish event and probably unavoidable. This time though there's no way you can blame the police.

[grizfoot]

Well the authorities in Manchester have decided to cancel all events to do with the CL Final next week.

Why would anyone who lives in Manchester be interested in the CL Final anyway.

[rovgers]

I went to Manchester to watch the match in the fan zone at Albert square, I got there at 5pm. I did not witness the scenes that have been broadcast, so I can not really talk about them but the few scenes of trouble I did witness were: 1, a drunk COCKney threatning a group of rangers fans telling them that he was a para and could take them all on. 2, a bunch of man utd fans trying to wind up rangers fans at manchester Vic. 3, tempers were raised on the platform because the rail company in their wisdom decided not to put enough carriages on, to take the fans home, I caught the last train back to Blackburn and there were 100's of fans stranded at the station.

I'm not trying to condone the behaviour of the 0.5% of so called rangers fans because there is no need to behave that way.

One last thing, people have mentioned the fact that the C/L final will not be shown on the big screen because of the problems on Wed night but I was talking to a policeman before the game, he told me that he was surprised that they had the screens on because the last time there was a game shown live on there was loads of trouble and fighting. For all the goody-goody people on here who've been having a go at the scots should remember that game was when england got knocked out of the last world cup.

[American]

Bullshit.

200,000 jocks bringing Manchester to a halt is a story in itself ; that a fair number of them brought shame on their crappy little country by behaving abominably is an even better story.

Huns and Fenians they're all the same: scum.

I find it interesting how some of our holier than thou posters when it comes to talking about people from sub-continental Asian countries are allowed to make comments that are just as bad. What about the new rules, mods and admin?

When does Jim get his ban for these types of statements?

[tonygreenbank]

Just a couple of points from the whole experience; why have outdoor screens anyway? Why not use Old Trafford either to host the match or at least put up a big screen? Secondly, can you imagine an England v. Scotland match at Wembley now? The chaos would be unprecedented.

[AlanK]

I think we`ve all seen the footage now.

At the end of the day, when Utd are Liverool, when Liverpool are in Manchester, when Spurs are at Arsenal, when Arsenal are at Utd, when Arsenal are at Chelsea, when Villa are at Brum, when Burnley are at Ewood......you get the idea.....we don`t get these scenes. A scuffle..yes...but these scenes....no. I`m half scottish. Its the half I wish to deny at he moment.

I also know if the English chav scum were north of the border I would deny being english. Its a football thing. I`m sticking to F1 as my sport and Rovers as my team. As for football, a sport that encourages drinking beyond reason, rioting and beating up coppers who have families and are doing a job that may one day catch the rapist of one of these morons wifes, well....

I have many non football friendly fans....I know....weirdo`s

I convince them football is now a friendly sport....take the family......

Its not a Rangers thing, its not a scotish thing, its a football thing. You don`t see rioting in Las Vegas when Hatton loses, at Silverstone when Alonso beats Lewis, at Lords when India beat England.

Just football.

[leftfooter]

From the Times.

'A club with a poison at its core'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle3942106.ece

"...The club, to be blunt, is paying a heavy price for its century-long antipathy towards signing Catholic players, a policy which planted this bitter harvest...."

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

[Roversider]

Hmmm, alcohol and football, bad mix at the best of times. When Celtic came to Ewood I was amazed to see the extent of drunken Hoops staggering about the streets of Blackburn and surrounding districts. Are we surprised that the same culture exists amongst Rangers fans? The trouble at the screening of England ensued in a similar 'carnival' atmosphere.

Fact - excessive consumption of alcohol = increased risk.

Fact - British culture accepts cheap promotion of drink and has for centuries (see Hogarth)

Fact - The Germans carefully managed their screens to be in parks with managed beer tents and significantly reduced that risk.

Fact - Manchester didn't and technical failure of a screen added to the problems.

Fact - Manchester encouraged ticketless fans to travel by the provision of screens. 'Gers fans could easilly have watched the game in pubs closer to home. Motive being money (what's new there).

Fact - We don't see as much drunkeness at football games in England because most ticketless fans wouldn't consider going to a location to drink and party just to be close to the atmosphere. Celtic and Rangers fans do, I can't accept that there is a similar culture at other clubs. Celtic fans came in their hordes to the northwest when they were at Rovers and any trouble wouldn't have hit the headlines as they were more dispersed than the Rangers fans in Manchester. Still the same drunken, brutish behaviour.

Do I like Rangers? No, I intensely dislike the sectarianism and bigotry that is an undercurrent amongst a hardcore set of fans. You could insert Celtic there with the same words. They feed each others ignorance.

However I do think there are some unique aspects to the old firm, they have huge support and hence, whilst a small percentage in the total, attract a large number of louts. That, combined with their breathtaking consumption of alcohol (were you surprised to see them being interviewed at 7am with cans of special brew in their hands?) is an explosive combination.

Until that can be changed we will continue to have public order problems. Sorry Manchester, you chose to make money and paid the price. As for Rangers? Hopefully they won't be drawn in any ties in England for a good few years, same goes for Celtic. Revive the home internationals - you must be joking.

By the way I've been to Old Firm derbies and England-Scotland games - electric, drunken and terrifying atmosphere. I'll stick to hang-gliding - its safer.

[Hasta]

Fact - Manchester encouraged ticketless fans to travel by the provision of screens. 'Gers fans could easilly have watched the game in pubs closer to home. Motive being money (what's new there).

That's not completely true. Listening to Centruy last week the police were saying there'd be no big screen and they would stop Rangers fans travelling without tickets. They even went as far to be suggesting that any Rangers fans booked in a hotel without match tickets should have their rooms cancelled.

The uproar from both Rangers and English fans saying the police can't do this and Ranges fans should be allowed to travel around as they like (which is fair enough) was unanimous. Manchester was backed into a corner to try and welcome them, especially as Glasgow had been so opening and welcoming at last years final.

[Rovermatt]

By the way I've been to Old Firm derbies and England-Scotland games - electric, drunken and terrifying atmosphere. I'll stick to hang-gliding - its safer.

I was at the last two Old Firms and the atmosphere was electrifying. Yes there was plenty of needle however I was surprised by how little aggro there actually was. Boca Juniors -v- River Plate it ain't.

[thenodrog]

I find it interesting how some of our holier than thou posters when it comes to talking about people from sub-continental Asian countries are allowed to make comments that are just as bad. What about the new rules, mods and admin?

When does Jim get his ban for these types of statements?

Good point American.

But back to the trouble. The plain fact is that the vast majority of people would have predicted this happening. (I know I did... http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=608909 ).

The refusal to take appropriate steps to avoid this, as it appears the police wanted to do,) suggests that this boorish, drunken and imo unacceptable mob behaviour is now acceptable in this country.

[iamarover]

I don't think its fair to punish Celtic or Rangers for having phenominal support. The level of pontification (apologies for using that word in connection with Rangers) on here is, as usual, to be laughed at. I have followed Rovers for 30 odd years and have seen some fairly anti-social behaviour but we are hardley likely to bring a city to a standstill because of the smaller numbers involved. In Amsterdam last year there was plenty of singing racist songs in the town at night but we only had 3,000 or so there rather than 150,000 so it went unnoticed by the media. Speaking as an Englishman I douby whether anyone will be listening to the English complaining about people invading their towns and causing mayhem do you?

I agree McClarky old son. Does sound a tad rich coming from a country - Ingerland - that has reached the top of the Euro Lout League. Speaking as an English fan - Ive been to 2 World Cups, 2 Euros and countless home and away fixtures - I can confirm that if anything English yobbery is underplayed by the press. It certainly was in Germany where as usual the sublime - singing, drinking and snogging with folk from other countries - was mixed with the ridiculous in the form of tiresome racist and sectarian chanting from ';the Bomber' element, with the usual unprovoked violence on rival fans.

That said, decent folk should always condemn this behaviour. These boneheads in Manchester have behaved abominably and whether other countries and fans behave badly too is by the by. In footy fan terms, they have cost United fans watching the CL final in their own city, and damaged England's World Cup bid for 2018. They have also caused terrible physical injuries to innocent people. What gives them the right to do this? The only good thing to come out of this sorry episode, is that it puts back by about 50 years any further lobbying by the Bigot Brothers for entry into the Premier League. Would Manchester fancy that shyte 4 times a year every year? Celtic v Chelsea or West Ham anyone? Millwall v Rangers in the Cup - fancy taking your kids to that one? Celtic fans singing Boys of the Old Brigade in Birmingham, Manchester or London or anywhere else the IRA slaughtered the innocents? Nah, they can keep their poison North of that Border.

[thenodrog]

I agree McClarky old son. Does sound a tad rich coming from a country - Ingerland - that has reached the top of the Euro Lout League. Speaking as an English fan - Ive been to 2 World Cups, 2 Euros and countless home and away fixtures - I can confirm that if anything English yobbery is underplayed by the press. It certainly was in Germany where as usual the sublime - singing, drinking and snogging with folk from other countries - was mixed with the ridiculous in the form of tiresome racist and sectarian chanting from ';the Bomber' element, with the usual unprovoked violence on rival fans.

No excuse whatsoever. The fact that the problem is widespread within these shores just confirms that the problem is way overdue in being addressed. Special measures were taken to stop flying pickets etc in the 80's, we should follow the same path with these morons. Why was in not insisted that the only screens that were put up / pubs showing the match live on TV were in Glasgow and not Manchester? There was absolutely NO NEED for the scummers without tickets to travel all that way was there?

...... Be better for the environment too.

[iamarover]

No excuse whatsoever.

Agreed. See my second para.

[philipl]

If Rovers had been at CoMS on Wednesday evening, there would have been 22,000 inside and at least another 20,000 having a party in Manchester, let's be honest.

PS we'd have played a darn sight better than Rangers as well!

[Exiled_Rover]

We clearly don't have 40k fans.

[iamarover]

If Rovers had been at CoMS on Wednesday evening, there would have been 22,000 inside and at least another 20,000 having a party in Manchester, let's be honest.

PS we'd have played a darn sight better than Rangers as well!

True. As usual, the peerless and hilarious Fiver hits on the ridiculousness of it all.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/fiver/0,,415657,00.html

[nicko]

If there is anyone out there with a memory that goes back 40 years...I am sure Rangers were actually banned from Manchester after a riot at a friendly with Man U around 1972.

I thought that was actually a 'lifetime' ban and explained why the cops stopped them playing Bolton in a pre-season game a year ago.

If anyone can confirm that it would be appreciated. The cops have not been helpful on this subject. Can't think why.

[philipl]

We clearly don't have 40k fans.

If we made a UEFA Final I bet there'd be over 60,000 ticket applications from people with genuine Rovers affiliations.

I don't know how big the Ewood Park home fans database is but I will be surprised if less than 30,000 different individuals will have been in the home areas this season as genuine Rovers supporters.

Remember we took 28,000 to Wembley for the Full Members Cup in 1987! We also took roughly that number twice for Charity Shield games in the '90s and the play-off final as well.