[Archived] Rangers In Manchester

[McClarky]

Bol locks.

Why is it all you Scot's are finding it hard to condemn the scumbags that trashed Manchester, trying to paper over it by bringing up other issues.

Scots? Not me mate. Didn't see much evidence of trashing though, just some debris of a damn fine night out by the looks of it. I hate Rangers as much as the next man but can't comdemn them for the size of their support.

[T4E]

Why should the Scots need to condemn any more than the English? Rangers is a football club, not a country - will you be expected to condemn United or Chelsea fans if they kick off in Moscow next week? Will you be criticised if you don't?

[1864roverite]

so the term "jocks in frocks" is offensive ?

It cant be as its a true reflection of what they actually wear.

As for the word "jock" being racist ? Well get a grip my Scottish friend, I dont ever recall anyone calling the late great Jock Stein racist Stein do you ?

ts a jovial term such as "taff" for a welshman and "tommy" for a Englander.

"paddy" for an Irishman

Get a grip

[rovgers]

so the term "jocks in frocks" is offensive ?

It cant be as its a true reflection of what they actually wear.

As for the word "jock" being racist ? Well get a grip my Scottish friend, I dont ever recall anyone calling the late great Jock Stein racist Stein do you ?

ts a jovial term such as "taff" for a welshman and "tommy" for a Englander.

"paddy" for an Irishman

Get a grip

I can't believe that you're being so ignorant, to call somebody from scotland a skirt warer or speaking jockenese is offensive, my father in law is Irish and thinks the term paddy is offensive. To use these term is like calling an asian a "curry eater" or an aussie a convict but you probably thing there ok.

[AlanK]

oh bloody hell. Lets wrap all of ourselves in cotton wool.

Get a grip. You`re a either a sweaty jock, a dirty northerner, a paddy, a taff, a southern softie or a curry eater. We`re all one of them. No harm done.

[USABlue]

I find it interesting how some of our holier than thou posters when it comes to talking about people from sub-continental Asian countries are allowed to make comments that are just as bad. What about the new rules, mods and admin?

When does Jim get his ban for these types of statements?

I suppose it's because racist remarks only count if they are toward non whites. Just have to listen to some of the stuff spouted over here aimed at white people and it does not seem to raise an eyebrow. Add a bit of skin tone and there is an uproar.

Whilst I do not condone the actions of the hoodlums I for one am surprised it was not worse. What did Manchester expect anyway when they announced large TV for the game, a few thousand Scots with open wallets lookin to boost the local economy. What I wonder is would there have been any major incidents had the screen(s) worked as planned.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Speaking to friends and work colleagues there seems to be two camps on the Rangers fans; either most of them were OK, having a great time, etc, or that they were a boorish, foul mouthed and hadn't mastered the art of using the lav.

I'm afraid I'm in the second camp. It shows how low our expectations are that we seem to think that it's normal for young, and not so young, men to start drinking on the streets at 8 in the morning, and continue to drink until they can't stand up and are sick. It's OK for hundreds of them to urinate in public. It's a British disease I'm afraid: I've been in Germany in the early hours countless times and not a hint of trouble - at the World Cup, the English fans were the worse behaved, showing no respect for the host country.

Having said that there's no doubt that the sheer number of the them was the defining problem on Wednesday, and I don't know what the Council could have done in the circumstances.

Oh, on the IRA songs: my point was not pro-IRA, my point was that the Rangers fans were singing sectarian and anti-Catholic songs.

[Hasta]

I still can't work out why people are getting so upset about this. Out of 150,000 a few idiots got ###### and behaved badly.

Because many people who were in or around the city centre after the game wouldn't say it was a few idiots. It was probably a few thousand idiots.

Re-read 1864's eyewitness report.

People are failing to grasp the scale of this. It wasn't just a gang of 12 or a mob of 60. It wasn't confined to just Picadilly. From what I've heard, anywhere there were a large number of Rangers fans there were some causing disorder.

Just to clarify after reading Jans post below - she's right, it's not a Rangers or Scottish thing, it's 150,000 football fans being allowed to travel and drink all day. However most games (Man U at Ewood etc, the fans are making their way to the ground so you can police it easier. 150,00 people dropped all over the city is more difficult.

[Jan]

Much as it pains me to defend Rangers fans, there's a certain hypocrisy going on round here.

I guess none of you have ever been to see us at Old Trafford from your talk. If you had, you'd have seen the small area in the main road in front of Old Trafford where there is a chippy and an off license. You'd have had to walk through that crowd of extremely drunk men, who nine times out of ten are having a "heated debate" amongst themselves or the police who gather in reasonably large numbers to watch them. You'd also have passed that way after the game where you can't put a foot on the ground for stepping on discarded chips, cans, or rubbish. And the area isn't immune from vomit either. The area is also made that bit more special by the pub next door, which doesn't let drunk people in, so if any of them need the loo there's just the wall to the side of the shops. For a woman walking past there to the ground it's such a pleasant sight.

Now obviously that isn't 150,000 people. Maybe a thousand at worst, but the behaviour is exactly the same. It's nothing to do with nationality- it's to do with alcohol. And to do with men. And in this case to do with policing.

I've been to Scotland matches abroad where the fans have literally drunk the supermarkets dry of booze. I've been in the middle of those crowds, albeit for a short time before the game as I've generally spent the day sightseeing, shopping or sunbathing- depending on location- and not felt even slightly threatened. Now admittedly practically none of them are Rangers fans, as Rangers fans are mostly pseudo-English and therefore support England anyway, but although there is a lot of rubbish etc to clean up (which I was doing as I went along as I'm sad like that) and people using the street as a loo (are there even ENOUGH public loos for them to use?) the complete lack of aggressive policing meant there was peace. The worst problem was having to get other fans to pick up the few that had fallen asleep to take them to the ground. The area was a mess, but I guess none of you have ever been to a festival or some other large gathering. Try going to the V festival and talk to me about peeing in public!!!!! (Men- not me) Not much fighting, but it IS a mixed crowd and a goodly proportion are stoned.

I think wherever there are a lot of youngish men gathered together drinking there is always a chance of violence. Be they Scottish, English or most other nationalities. Personally as a Scottish football fan I've not felt the need to hang around in a pack all day getting drunk or puking or peeing in public. And I've certainly never felt the need to beat up a policeman.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Try going to the V festival and talk to me about peeing in public!!!!! (Men- not me)

I bet you had a sneeky peek you wee bugger you Jan.......I bet them glasses were falling off the end of your nose!

[brian_gallagher85]

What a great week!

[1864roverite]

You know something folks, all this talk of the scots being upset about the said description of their counterparts in Manchester tis week got me thinking about my time living in Scotland in the 80's when I was in the Armed Forces.

I was fortunate to be at Hampden when they only allowed 5000 England fans into the ground as the were concerned about trouble before/during and after the game.

England won 2-0, there was no sign of any English fans causing trouble as the scots all ran home to eat their haggis and tatties as they couldnt handle the beating they got from the white shirted England team. The English fans all had a drink but didnt see the need to create massive trouble, damage cars and building, loot shops, assault the oppositon, maim the Police and generally just ruin the place (although at that time Glasgow was nothing more than a hovel).

So I have to ask myself why did it happen ?

At the end of the day there are NO excuses WHATSOEVER.

[AggyBlue]

Much as it pains me to defend Rangers fans, there's a certain hypocrisy going on round here.

No there isn't.

The thread is titled 'Rangers in Manchester' not 'Drunks outside Old Trafford' or 'Drunks at music festivals'

So this is were Rangers fans will get slagged off for the behaviour of some of their fans in Manchester.

[mrsjansen]

Just going back to Wednesday night, the people who came here fighting etc etc, i dont believe where Rangers fans, nor do i believe they where fans of football. I dont follow Scottish football, but i do know they brought shame on Rangers football club and most decent Scots.

It doesnt matter how many people where involved it was people too many, not every rangers fan/scot is a thug. Remember the united fans a few weeks ago who caused havoc round blackburn, they where simply out to cause trouble.

It cannot be condoned by any law abiding citizen of any nationality or any football supporter. And i would say the same if it was english fans abroad. For a fan to get stabbed is undefendable. A 15 year old was arrested for throwing a bottle onto the pitch at full time. Why has that not been mentioned? Or that a Rangers fan has been banned for 3 years from every football ground for the trouble on wednesday night. Not every Rangers fan is a thug, and not every scot is a thug, however i have found this being condoned and the police and council being blamed.

But one thing i dont understand in any of this why ticketless fans travelled to another city to watch the match? Why not simply watch it in their home city on big screens up there?

[AggyBlue]

But one thing i dont understand in any of this why ticketless fans travelled to another city to watch the match? Why not simply watch it in their home city on big screens up there?

Are you thinking there may be something far more sinister involved?

Perhaps it's that ruddy great chip thay have on their shoulder when it comes to the Engish

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Its all an excuse.....they'll still be disinfecting the streets!

[cletus]

I`ve been off-line for a few days due to computer troubles, & haven`t been able to read all of this thread (i`ve skimmmed through some of it)....but here`s my view on Rangers the other night....

Rangers (the team) are probably the poorest team to grace a european final. They were rubbish.

Rangers fans only came to Manchester in such huge numbers because Celtic took 100k fans to their final a few years back. They simply cannot be seen to be 'less loyal' than their arch-rivals. They`ll talk/argue over it for the next 25yrs that 'we took more than you'.....& so the bigotted circle of hatred continues rotate.

UEFA need to make an example of Rangers & ban them from Europe next year.

[Gav]

I`ve been off-line for a few days due to computer troubles, & haven`t been able to read all of this thread (i`ve skimmmed through some of it)....but here`s my view on Rangers the other night....

Rangers (the team) are probably the poorest team to grace a european final. They were rubbish.

Rangers fans only came to Manchester in such huge numbers because Celtic took 100k fans to their final a few years back. They simply cannot be seen to be 'less loyal' than their arch-rivals. They`ll talk/argue over it for the next 25yrs that 'we took more than you'.....& so the bigotted circle of hatred continues rotate.

UEFA need to make an example of Rangers & ban them from Europe next year.

Try pulling the plug out of the PC again please, because that is possibly the most ridiculous post on this thread.

[Manchester Blue]

So I guess that makes you "must comment when none of his business man?" or "Can't shut his big yapper man?"

And I purposely didn't use the word racism, because as I don't think Pakistani is a race, I don't think Scottish is a race.

As for the different terms on the previous page, does no one use Limey anymore?

And there was me thinking you had already taken those titles as well!! Silly me you clearly just pick and choose to stick your beak in when it suits you.

Aggy, i'm going to sound a bit "American" here but you have regularly dismissed Rovers fans behaviour as something and nothing when it has been raised as out of order, why is this so different? Jan's right there is a huge amount of hypocrisy going on. I've been in Europe with the Rovers several times now and seen many things that were just as bad but obviously on a much smaller scale.

I still can't believe the fuss about all the litter, if the council had any sense they would have had an army of cleaners out on the streets from the early hours and the bulk of the rubbish would have gone. Lot's of European cities have this setup as standard, why on earth when there was 150,000 fans in Manchester did it not occur to them that there may just be a bit of litter. Where did they seriously expect it to go? Every litter bin was full by 10am so it's not exactly rocket science is it.

[cletus]

Try pulling the plug out of the PC again please, because that is possibly the most ridiculous post on this thread.

why`s that then Gav?

if english fans had run riot somewhere in europe....they`d be queueing up to ban us.

If ever there was an advert for not inviting the old firm into the english prem.....that was it the other night.

[AggyBlue]

Aggy, i'm going to sound a bit "American" here but you have regularly dismissed Rovers fans behaviour as something and nothing when it has been raised as out of order, why is this so different?

I can't remember Rovers fans ever causing the devastation to a city centre the way Rangers fans did.

The issues I have dismissed as being 'something and nothing' are small time in comparison, the worst of which was probably a punch up between our own fans.

They were commented on, at the time, in the appropriate thread too. Not brought up retrospectively in later discussions.

[BRFC4EVA]

I`ve been off-line for a few days due to computer troubles, & haven`t been able to read all of this thread (i`ve skimmmed through some of it)....but here`s my view on Rangers the other night....

Rangers (the team) are probably the poorest team to grace a european final. They were rubbish.

Rangers fans only came to Manchester in such huge numbers because Celtic took 100k fans to their final a few years back. They simply cannot be seen to be 'less loyal' than their arch-rivals. They`ll talk/argue over it for the next 25yrs that 'we took more than you'.....& so the bigotted circle of hatred continues rotate.

UEFA need to make an example of Rangers & ban them from Europe next year.

Actually, I think thats pretty close to spot on (apart from the fact I wouldnt go as far as to ban them from europe).

[philipl]

UEFA's (Scottish) Secretary General does nothing.

[brian_gallagher85]

How will we cope knowing that they won't be around to thrash another European city this coming season

[Ste B]

I'm sure Celtic will take up the challenge.

Both as bad as each other.