[Archived] John Williams And The Board

[philipl]

The much debated Glynn Hodges IS one of the quartet expected to move.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Its going to be very interesting listening to Hughes give his reasons for leaving what appears to be a stable HMS Rovers,interesting indeed!

Perhaps theres more to it than we think?.......................................................................

[Ronin]

Can see it being like when Holloway left Plymouth for Leicester quoting more money available. But then, that job ended up going well for both parties!

[roversmum]

Glynn's the Reserve Team coach though, not the Academy Coach.

[thenodrog]

Spend money to make money.

If you don't move forward you're moving backwards.

I can express the same idea in a thousand different clichés. There's no reason why Villa, Everton, City and the like should be going into a summer with 250-300% of our own transfer budget. Jack Walker will be turning in his grave.

More likely to be turning in his grave thinking of the Walker family millions wasted in fees / wages / pay offs on the likes of Grabbi, Ferguson, Amoruso, Blake, Dailly, Baggio, Dahlin, Greer, Davidson, Matteo, Peacock, Grayson, Per Frandsen, Di Pedro etc etc.

Eddie you are probably not old enough to rem the easy option cheque book management favoured by Dalglish's successors and ending in relegation which wasted / blew absolutely millions. After Jack's death David Brown sussed it and could not / would not allow it to continue and rightly so. You've heard the term 'rags to riches and back again in 3 generations' I take it? Well carrying on like that would have seen the Walkers succeed in doing that in 1.5!

Anyway care to speculate just how much would we have to give Hughes to ward off interest from bloody chelsea ffs?

Oh btw you whinge about attendances and support at Ewood? Right well buy a frukcing season ticket then! There's plenty available and you don't need to actually go to support em you know.

[Duffy]

It must be an extremely difficult job to balance the needs of the club against the money in the trust fund - do you risk it all and end up dead in the water because you didn't hold anything back in reserve? Any well run business will invest money wisely, perhaps taking the odd risk here and there (and hopefully reaping the benefits) but let's be fair having a trust fund is totally different to having someone pumping money into the club. I personally think the board and in particular John Williams have done a fantastic job. It wasn't so long ago that Williams was quoted as saying that in the long term the club really needed to find an investor (the right one of course) in order to stay where they were and indeed to progress. I think it's interesting to hear Saunders saying that he and Souness only really realised how well run the club was when they moved to Newcastle - he thinks Hughes would be wise to stay where he is. I've got to say I agree (albeit I am biassed!) there's a lot of people investing in Football clubs because it's the current thing to do but where will half of these people go when the chips are down? I can't see Abramovic saying to Chelsea thanks very much and don't worry about all the money I gave you consider it written off - he'll want his money back. I reckon the same might apply at Man City. Short term glory/gain - long term misery? I honestly believe that we at least have people actually interested in the club rather than themselves and long may that status quo continue.

[BRFC1995]

I'd love this to turn out like the holloway fiasco, it's priceless that he quoted a bigger team more money etc as reasons for the off...6 months later relegated and sacked..magic!

[ABBEY]

We are owned by a trust worth hundreds of millions...they could have done more.

The fans didn't show up in the numbers that they could have.

not being funny eddie but i wouldnt dream of going on a bronco board and slagging the fans off if i dont go every week(thats not a pop at overseas fans before anyone as a go at me.)

[Paul]

He agreed to it for a good many years. It's the only reason we got to the premiership, only reason we have Ewood, only reason we won the title. What would an extra 3/4 million a season have meant to us (which is nothing when compared to the level of investment Jack Walker had been putting in). What if Hughes had been told that he'd have 20 million or 25 million this summer instead of just 10 (which appears to be the bare minimum for premiership clubs this year, I've only heard West Ham quoted as having that size of a budget and they are going through huge financial turmoil because of their wage bill and ownership and recent spending).

Spend money to make money.

If you don't move forward you're moving backwards.

I can express the same idea in a thousand different clichés. There's no reason why Villa, Everton, City and the like should be going into a summer with 250-300% of our own transfer budget. Jack Walker will be turning in his grave.

You're constantly saying this yet when asked to explain how ignore the question. If the club spend £25m on players this summer and therefore commit to a similar amount of the next 4 seasons in wages, how will this be funded? How will it earn the club more money? Moving up the PL by two places, the best we can realistically hope for, would earn the club approximately £2m per season. Or are we suddenly going to sell out every match? Frankly the gate revenue increase won't make that much difference. 5,000 extra STs at £400 a throw only generates £2m

So come on Eddie you constantly attack the trustees for not funding the club, and now the local support for not turning out in sufficient numbers. How will spending £25m this sum allow the club to "spend money to make money?"

[thenodrog]

It wasn't so long ago that Williams was quoted as saying that in the long term the club really needed to find an investor (the right one of course) in order to stay where they were and indeed to progress.

What is an investor?

'investor'..... The def of investor in this instance is being a cash cow! And who the hell would want to blow away millions of pounds? All the other 'investors' that we hear about in football simply put the club in hock by investing money from the bank, and thats the last thing that we want.

[mode_m]

not being funny eddie but i wouldnt dream of going on a bronco board and slagging the fans off if i dont go every week(thats not a pop at overseas fans before anyone as a go at me.)

Good point but in truth I think the numbers speak for themselves.

http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html

Not that it is fair to compare a city the size of Blackburn to clubs in London etc. but it is harder to gain the same average attendance and following necessary to purchase the expensive players every single year. If MH is leaving for that reason he will find lots more money at the bigger clubs. He has done an excellent job as coach for the Rovers with the money he has spent and the quality of players he has picked up. One more win last year they would have been in Europe and thats a big achievement. Takes a lot more talent to build up a club with a budget than it does to just cherry pick all the players from elsewhere when money is no issue (obviously).

Having said all that it is by no means impossible for a smaller club to win the premiership (or is it? otherwise what's the whole point?), but it isn't easy, especially when big clubs just throw money at the players elsewhere in the league to have them swap ship. L. Saha leaving Fulham is a good example, but of course there are many others.

[Blue n White Rover]

In my opinion the board did'nt back Sparky at all, i don't blame him looking for another job, he's probably bored.n He wanted to go to another level and the board couldn't help him.

[American]

not being funny eddie but i wouldnt dream of going on a bronco board and slagging the fans off if i dont go every week(thats not a pop at overseas fans before anyone as a go at me.)

Sometimes I think you do have a complex about being a "better fan" because of the years spent, but in this case, no offense is taken.

I do think that more should be done by Rovers to get fans back, much of which they have started doing with the price cuts, but I am not going to judge someone for choosing not to spend money on entertainment and sport.

[philipl]

OK it is gutting seeing Hughes taking a step backwards and downwards to City. There will be a certain amount of schadenfreude if Ferguson makes Ronaldo's departure a retiring issue!

Daft as it may seem, I remain optimistic about Rovers.

If only because the rest of the EPL is run by absolute morons at the very top.

The platform JW is starting the search this morning from is vastly better than the platform JW started the search from which led to Mark Hughes nearly four years ago.

[daveoftherovers]

Eddie, almost everyone, but the most arrogant, can always do at least bit better, WITH the benefit of hindsight !

John Williams has been fantastic for our club and steered a steady course and help consolidate our club in the very rare bracket of "Well run club", they have tried literally everything to get fans in inc. a very good job on season tickets, the dour games such as Fulham etc and a lot of community work (Schools etc)

Just as aside, on Radio 5 the night before last there was an interesting piece, Stuart Hall (Of it's a knock out), Dean Saunders and that idiot Perry Groves were in debate about City, Rovers and Mark Hughes.

Dean Saunders stated that Rovers are a "Very well run club" and admitted that it had been a very big shock for him & Sourness (In that regard alone) when they arrived at the Geordie Nation.

Stuart Hall spoke very well of Rovers & MH, the panels "City are a bigger club" & "They have European football" were brushed aside very swiftly and very amusingly by Stuart Hall who confirmed the view that Rovers were a very well run club, confirmed that we have a better team and that Euro football meant nothing in the whole scheme of things, especialy as no revenue was even possible until the semi final (At least) he then had a wager with the idiot known as Perry Groves about how many would attend Wastelands for the first UEFA cup match for City @ Home, Perry Groves: 42,000 !!! Stuart Hall = 15000.

[daveoftherovers]

OK it is gutting seeing Hughes taking a step backwards and downwards to City. There will be a certain amount of schadenfreude if Ferguson makes Ronaldo's departure a retiring issue!

Daft as it may seem, I remain optimistic about Rovers.

If only because the rest of the EPL is run by absolute morons at the very top.

The platform JW is starting the search this morning from is vastly better than the platform JW started the search from which led to Mark Hughes nearly four years ago.

TOTALLY Agree with this post, couldn't have put it better myself, well done Philipl, okay it's gutting but actually we are in better shape, IF we get the right man for the job we'll be fine (We always are), I don't go for the doom & gloom option.

In JW we trust, even if we go for the Bolton belly! (And that's hard to say but I've said it)

[The Prof.]

Good point but in truth I think the numbers speak for themselves.

http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html

Not that it is fair to compare a city the size of Blackburn to clubs in London etc. but it is harder to gain the same average attendance and following necessary to purchase the expensive players every single year. If MH is leaving for that reason he will find lots more money at the bigger clubs. He has done an excellent job as coach for the Rovers with the money he has spent and the quality of players he has picked up. One more win last year they would have been in Europe and thats a big achievement. Takes a lot more talent to build up a club with a budget than it does to just cherry pick all the players from elsewhere when money is no issue (obviously).

Having said all that it is by no means impossible for a smaller club to win the premiership (or is it? otherwise what's the whole point?), but it isn't easy, especially when big clubs just throw money at the players elsewhere in the league to have them swap ship. L. Saha leaving Fulham is a good example, but of course there are many others.

That table alone is as good a reason to avoid BFS as anything

[b12_simon]

Eddie, almost everyone, but the most arrogant, can always do at least bit better, WITH the benefit of hindsight !

John Williams has been fantastic for our club and steered a steady course and help consolidate our club in the very rare bracket of "Well run club", they have tried literally everything to get fans in inc. a very good job on season tickets, the dour games such as Fulham etc and a lot of community work (Schools etc)

Just as aside, on Radio 5 the night before last there was an interesting piece, Stuart Hall (Of it's a knock out), Dean Saunders and that idiot Perry Groves were in debate about City, Rovers and Mark Hughes.

Dean Saunders stated that Rovers are a "Very well run club" and admitted that it had been a very big shock for him & Sourness (In that regard alone) when they arrived at the Geordie Nation.

Stuart Hall spoke very well of Rovers & MH, the panels "City are a bigger club" & "They have European football" were brushed aside very swiftly and very amusingly by Stuart Hall who confirmed the view that Rovers were a very well run club, confirmed that we have a better team and that Euro football meant nothing in the whole scheme of things, especialy as no revenue was even possible until the semi final (At least) he then had a wager with the idiot known as Perry Groves about how many would attend Wastelands for the first UEFA cup match for City @ Home, Perry Groves: 42,000 !!! Stuart Hall = 15000.

Surprisingly balanced and much to his credit from Stuart Hall - a Citeh fan.

[Eddie]

not being funny eddie but i wouldnt dream of going on a bronco board and slagging the fans off if i dont go every week(thats not a pop at overseas fans before anyone as a go at me.)

It's only my location that prevents me from going every week. I wasn't "slagging" anyone off, I was merely point out that our attendances could be higher and that some of the fans who will bemoan the fact that we don't have much money to spend, are losing players and our manager will be some of the same ones who aren't willing to spend 25 pounds on a Saturday.

You're constantly saying this yet when asked to explain how ignore the question. If the club spend £25m on players this summer and therefore commit to a similar amount of the next 4 seasons in wages, how will this be funded? How will it earn the club more money? Moving up the PL by two places, the best we can realistically hope for, would earn the club approximately £2m per season. Or are we suddenly going to sell out every match? Frankly the gate revenue increase won't make that much difference. 5,000 extra STs at £400 a throw only generates £2m

So come on Eddie you constantly attack the trustees for not funding the club, and now the local support for not turning out in sufficient numbers. How will spending £25m this sum allow the club to "spend money to make money?"

Well, I'm not sure we are in a position now to take that next step, I think we've actually just missed a two season window where progress was there for the taking and we instead chose to just keep things as they were.

I don't constantly attack the trustees. I simply think that their committment to the club is virtually non-existant and that they have simply chosen to life off of the Walker legacy and have not bothered to actually continue it.

At the same time, the club wouldn't have to increase their wages by all that much. You always have to take into consideration that we have, and have had, various players with premiership experience who are paid a premiership wage even though they can be easily replaced with a similar if not better player from a foreign country who won't expect as much.

Take for example Savage:

We sold savage for 1.5 (or something of that sort) and he was on around 40k a week. Now to be on 40k a week in most European countries or South America you have to be a superstar or be playing for one of the huge sides. So let's say we had chosen to spend 5 million on a Savage replacement (so a net expenditure of -3.5 or thereabouts) we could have still done this and possibly signed a very good player on 30k a week, which would mean our wage bill would have dropped by 10k a week.

It's very difficult to do this without looking at everything in depth, talking about possible signings and sales and it becomes extremely hypothetical, which is why I tend not to go into it as it is rather pointless. Having said this, I will stand by the fact that the trustees either need to start backing the club or put in more effort to sell it.

Some of you seem to be quite happy to view the trustees as a safety blanket, but if you do you should take a long hard look at this summer. Personally I'm not that worried as I'd lost faith in Hughes, so getting 5 million for him seems like an amazing piece of business, but if you liked Hughes then the trust has to start losing some of its appeal. Hughes is going to a club that finished lower than us last season, one that has finished lower than us for the past couple seasons and one that at this moment in time does not have as good of a squad as us. So why did he do it? His main reason will probably be that with the money they have to spend he can improve the team more there than he can improve the team here. Where is the trust as a safety blanket? We could now make the wrong managerial appointment, waste money, who knows, but it would all stem back to the fact that we can't financially compete with our rivals despite the fact that we are run by a trust worth a ton of money and one that could back us with a lot more than they do.

I haven't supported my view particularly well, I'm at work and babbling, but I hope you can get the general picture.

[philipl]

It's only my location that prevents me from going every week. I wasn't "slagging" anyone off, I was merely point out that our attendances could be higher and that some of the fans who will bemoan the fact that we don't have much money to spend, are losing players and our manager will be some of the same ones who aren't willing to spend 25 pounds on a Saturday.

Well, I'm not sure we are in a position now to take that next step, I think we've actually just missed a two season window where progress was there for the taking and we instead chose to just keep things as they were.

I don't constantly attack the trustees. I simply think that their committment to the club is virtually non-existant and that they have simply chosen to life off of the Walker legacy and have not bothered to actually continue it.

At the same time, the club wouldn't have to increase their wages by all that much. You always have to take into consideration that we have, and have had, various players with premiership experience who are paid a premiership wage even though they can be easily replaced with a similar if not better player from a foreign country who won't expect as much.

Take for example Savage:

We sold savage for 1.5 (or something of that sort) and he was on around 40k a week. Now to be on 40k a week in most European countries or South America you have to be a superstar or be playing for one of the huge sides. So let's say we had chosen to spend 5 million on a Savage replacement (so a net expenditure of -3.5 or thereabouts) we could have still done this and possibly signed a very good player on 30k a week, which would mean our wage bill would have dropped by 10k a week.

It's very difficult to do this without looking at everything in depth, talking about possible signings and sales and it becomes extremely hypothetical, which is why I tend not to go into it as it is rather pointless. Having said this, I will stand by the fact that the trustees either need to start backing the club or put in more effort to sell it.

Some of you seem to be quite happy to view the trustees as a safety blanket, but if you do you should take a long hard look at this summer. Personally I'm not that worried as I'd lost faith in Hughes, so getting 5 million for him seems like an amazing piece of business, but if you liked Hughes then the trust has to start losing some of its appeal. Hughes is going to a club that finished lower than us last season, one that has finished lower than us for the past couple seasons and one that at this moment in time does not have as good of a squad as us. So why did he do it? His main reason will probably be that with the money they have to spend he can improve the team more there than he can improve the team here. Where is the trust as a safety blanket? We could now make the wrong managerial appointment, waste money, who knows, but it would all stem back to the fact that we can't financially compete with our rivals despite the fact that we are run by a trust worth a ton of money and one that could back us with a lot more than they do.

I haven't supported my view particularly well, I'm at work and babbling, but I hope you can get the general picture.

The Savage example is theoretical

There was nobody available as you well know having failed to offer any suggestions last January.

[Eddie]

I could list quite a few names from France and South America who would have been available for 5 million and who would have accepted lower wages than Savage and who I feel would have done a good job.

What's the point in me putting such a list together when we are never going to look at any of the players?

[philipl]

I could list quite a few names from France and South America who would have been available for 5 million and who would have accepted lower wages than Savage and who I feel would have done a good job.

What's the point in me putting such a list together when we are never going to look at any of the players?

If we didn't look at any, how come two offers were knocked back?

[Eddie]

I meant look at any of the ones I could list.

[mattyboy6000]

I entirely blame the Walker Trust - the £3 million they contributed all came from accrued interest on the main pot anyway- not exactly sticking their head on the block anyway were they?

the question now is how do they sell season tickets based on the prospect of a relegation dog fight?

[stuwilky]

I entirely blame the Walker Trust - the £3 million they contributed all came from accrued interest on the main pot anyway-

Did it?

Do share your knowledge on the trust with us.......