[Archived] What Is It That Makes A "big" Club?

[Drummer Boy]

With Mark Hughes becoming the latest to think he can do for Citeh what nobody else has since 1977 (win something) and given his reasons for joining I thought it worth asking what it is that makes a club "big"?

Is it attendances?

Performance on the pitch?

Expectations of others?

How it is run off the pitch?

Global recognition of the brand?

History and tradition?

Number of overseas fans?

Shadow cast over rival clubs in the same catchment area?

For me, I would say, Aston Villa are a big club but Birmingham City are not because they are too busy trying to be whereas Villa don't have to try.

Man City will never be as big a club as they think they should be because they are in the same metropolitan cluster as Man United, albeit in a different city and yet Everton are a big club despite having to compete with Liverpool

Newcastle are a big club because they have no rival in the same city to compete for attention with - they'll still never win anything because nobody wants to go there

Despite all the money, Chelsea are the smallest of the big four and will never be as big a club because, like Leeds in the '70's, they are not sustainable and will fall over when the rich man gets fed up of his plaything and finds a new toy (Formula 1 anyone?) - not a permanent big club

Everything about Bolton is crap and small-time whereas Rovers have that touch of class so sadly lacking at the breezeblock (and at Wigan)

Any thoughts anyone?

Where do Rovers fit in the "big club" stakes? And don't say "below Birmingham" because we all know that already thanks to Messrs Gold and Sullivan!!

[LeftWinger]

We're a small club that does brilliantly for our size - and many of the so called big clubs hate it

[Dunnfc]

All big clubs who don't do as well as us always call us a small team etc, simply because they feel the embaressment. We are a small club, we have a small fanbase, we have no money and we are from a small town but we have togetherness and passion which is simply lacking in some clubs/teams from the city i.e Birmingham.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

With Mark Hughes becoming the latest to think he can do for Citeh what nobody else has since 1977 (win something) and given his reasons for joining I thought it worth asking what it is that makes a club "big"?

Good thread idea!

For me a team qualifies as a big club if.....

They have won the league/premiership/FA cup consistently since their conception

They have had European success

They have consistently attracted large attendences since their inception.

They are recognised globally.

It is possible you could argue that 'big clubs' are only really an invention in the last 30 years. Prior to that the leagues were a lot more competitive with teams like Blackburn, Burnley, Wolves, Huddersfield, Blackpool, Bolton et al all enjoying success at various points in history.

It is only recently (Liverpool 70's & 80's), Man Utd 90's to present that the one or two teams have dominated domestically. Couple this to the fact that the English league has only really been shown to a worldwide tv audience (or the population in general has access to a tv!) over this time period then it is perhaps only logical that the above mentioned teams are the ones recognised globally.

I would therefore rate the only 2 big teams in England as Liverpool and Man United.

Arsenal would head the 'quite big' sub-category followed by Villa, Forest, Leeds and Chelsea

I don't think there's another English team that can meet at least 3 out of those 4 criteria

ie Spurs, NO consistent domestic success, No Euroean success (that I can remember) Not a global brand

Man City ditto

Newcastle only have big crowds - that's it!

Birmingham - None of the above!

Rovers - some domestic success- little else!

[The Prof.]

We are a big club....... in a little package! Sort of Kylie like

[The Prof.]

We are a big club....... in a little package! Sort of Kylie like

No Lolo Ferrarri or Barbara Windsor yes that more like it

[Darth Paul]

To look at it slightly differently, there must be loads of clubs on the continent who really resent the fame and fortune received by Premiership clubs as it almost automatically propels them into a false situation of being bigger, purely because of the league they are in, regardless of how popular they are, fanbase, how good they are and what history they have...

It is funny how clubs like Utd or Liverpool, or Barca etc never seem to go on about being "big"in the same way...just the fans of the clubs who want to be and aren't do (City, Brum, Spurs etc)...it is a bit like guys who go around saying they are "hard" whereas the guys with the black belts are usually quiet about it all.

Being labelled "big" is often a crutch for failure (see clubs mentioned above). I think the key is whether you are a "successful" club, which is much more important.

Rovers are succesful for example (recent competition successes, relative to expectation for example is a good indicator), Newcastle are not, City are not...would their fans swap their gates for our trophies? I think they would.

[The Prof.]

To look at it slightly differently, there must be loads of clubs on the continent who really resent the fame and fortune received by Premiership clubs as it almost automatiacally propels them into a false situation of being bigger, purely because of the league they are in, regardless of how popular they are, fanbase, how good they are and what history they have...

It is funny how clubs like Utd or Liverpool, or Barca etc never seem to go on about being "big"in the same way...just the fans of the clubs who want to be and aren't do (City, Brum, Spurs etc)...it is a bit like guys who go around saying they are "hard" whereas the guys with the black belts are usually quiet about it all.

Being labelled "big" is often a crutch for failure (see clubs mentioned above). I think the key is whether you are a "successful" club, which is much more important.

Rovers are succesful for example (recent competition successes, relative to expectation for example is a good indicator), Newcastle are not, City are not...would there fans swap their gates for our trophies? I think they would.

Spot on!

[Guest fernhurstblue]

Arsenal are a massive club and defo in the same league as Man Utd and Liverpool ..... they have class, stature and tradition along with a huge and growing fanbase.

Rovers are a small town club that got lucky, VERY lucky!! Money, a good management structure and a bit of luck has kept us in the Premier League and the way the game is going with money etc, the longer we can stay in, the less chance we will get relegated.

[philipl]

8th or 9th most successful club in the world's oldest cup competition.

One of 4 holders of the EPL trophy.

5th highest points per game ratio in the World's top league (by any measuring stick) since it was formed.

Big is a relative concept but I'd say Rovers are comfortably one of the most prestigious clubs around and far more so tham Man City say.

[The Prof.]

Spot on!

Which makes it soooo much more fun!

[broadsword]

You're a "big" club when you never win anything, but your owner has a whacking great big wallet, or your fans turn up in large numbers to watch rubbish football played by journeymen out to take your clkub for whatever they can.

Being a "big" club helps dull the pain of an empty trophy cabinet.

You never hear Man Utd say they're a "big" club because they win things so excuses are not needed.

[Paul]

Big is a relative concept but I'd say Rovers are comfortably one of the most prestigious clubs around and far more so tham Man City say.

Much better to be assocciated with a prestigious club than a big one.

[daveoftherovers]

Easy, look it up in the Dictionary, e.g. I love it when you see "Massive" Appended instead of "Big"

massive Show phonetics

adjective

very large in size, amount or number:

They've got a massive house.

She died after taking a massive overdose of drugs.

If the drought continues, deaths will occur on a massive scale.

massively Show phonetics

adverb

The film is a massively (= very) ambitious project.

:-)

[Gav]

MONEY, simple as that in modern day football.

[Drummer Boy]

Good thread idea!

For me a team qualifies as a big club if.....

They have won the league/premiership/FA cup consistently since their conception

They have had European success

They have consistently attracted large attendences since their inception.

They are recognised globally.

It is possible you could argue that 'big clubs' are only really an invention in the last 30 years. Prior to that the leagues were a lot more competitive with teams like Blackburn, Burnley, Wolves, Huddersfield, Blackpool, Bolton et al all enjoying success at various points in history.

It is only recently (Liverpool 70's & 80's), Man Utd 90's to present that the one or two teams have dominated domestically. Couple this to the fact that the English league has only really been shown to a worldwide tv audience (or the population in general has access to a tv!) over this time period then it is perhaps only logical that the above mentioned teams are the ones recognised globally.

I would therefore rate the only 2 big teams in England as Liverpool and Man United.

Arsenal would head the 'quite big' sub-category followed by Villa, Forest, Leeds and Chelsea

I don't think there's another English team that can meet at least 3 out of those 4 criteria

ie Spurs, NO consistent domestic success, No Euroean success (that I can remember) Not a global brand

Man City ditto

Newcastle only have big crowds - that's it!

Birmingham - None of the above!

Rovers - some domestic success- little else!

I think you've probably got it about right, and I especially like the assessment of Spurs, City, Newcastle and Brum, although I would put Arsenal with Liverpool and Man Utd and not in the next category down. The only factor missing is the one so delicately (or is that cynically?) noted by GAV - money. Whether the money comes first to create a big club or big clubs create more money because they are big is arguable and I would observe that Liverpool/Arsenal and MUFC are big clubs because they generate turnover and revenue commecusrate with maintaining their status whereas Chelsea are not a big club because they are not commercially viable in the same way.

[Mc Love]

yet what really pisses me off, is the fact that they still sell spurs/citeh and leeds jerseys over here. And recently started selling sunderland jerseys and no blackburn jerseys

[OJRovers]

Made me laugh from the BBC site:

Barcelona striker Samuel Eto'o has ruled out a move to Spurs - and hinted that Inter Milan remain an option. "Tottenham, and I hope the English fans will forgive me, are a club in mid-table and I need more," said Eto'o

[S15]

The size of a ''club'' is dictated by the number of people which make up the said club.

So, in this context, the biggest clubs are the ones with the most fans. 'Big' is an adjective describing size, nothing else.

Always been pretty black and white to me. I'm more interested in the term 'Good' in this particular context.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

Flamengo from Brazil have approx 40+ million fans.

Now that's a big club according to fan base.

Whats funny is that their home stadium is the José Bastos Padilha Stadium and has a capacity of 8,000.

Thankfully they won't disappoint their fans as they play the majority of their games at the Maracanã Stadium which holds 95,000.

[yoda]

Flamengo from Brazil have approx 40+ million fans.

Now that's a big club according to fan base.

Whats funny is that their home stadium is the José Bastos Padilha Stadium and has a capacity of 8,000.

Thankfully they won't disappoint their fans as they play the majority of their games at the Maracanã Stadium which holds 95,000.

bigger than manu then

[HATRIX]

The size of a ''club'' is dictated by the number of people which make up the said club.

So, in this context, the biggest clubs are the ones with the most fans. 'Big' is an adjective describing size, nothing else.

Always been pretty black and white to me. I'm more interested in the term 'Good' in this particular context.

I'd say we are a highly succesfull domestic club of moderate european stature. When people talk about "Big name players"i.e roque sant cruz, benni mccarthy,robbie keane , diego milito, puyol,luis figo,cesc fabregas,carlos tevez , the list goes on,there names are not actually big in size.

[leftfooter]

The size of a ''club'' is dictated by the number of people which make up the said club.

So, in this context, the biggest clubs are the ones with the most fans. 'Big' is an adjective describing size, nothing else.

Always been pretty black and white to me. I'm more interested in the term 'Good' in this particular context.

I've always argued that size isn't everything

[Darth Paul]

I'd say we are a highly succesfull domestic club of moderate european stature. When people talk about "Big name players"i.e roque sant cruz, benni mccarthy,robbie keane , diego milito, puyol,luis figo,cesc fabregas,carlos tevez , the list goes on,there names are not actually big in size.

Vennegor of Hesselink is one of the biggest name players I can think of! (Must cost about £50 for a name and number on your shirt!)

[allrovertheworld]

You never hear Man Utd say they're a "big" club because they win things so excuses are not needed.

Just thought I would latch on to that. You don't even hear Utd fans say they are a big club they just say they are Man Utd, same with Liverpool. There is and never will be any questin that they are both 'Huge Clubs'.

City Spurs Newcastle have to give themselves a lable of 'BIG CLUB' its pathetic.

They have no more chance of winning stuff than Rovers, Portsmouth or Boro who are never referred to as a 'BIG CLUBS'