[Archived] Nickos (newer) Thread

[thenodrog]

You SHOULD know what is happening at your club.

Isn't the normal route to somehow procure a shareholding?

btw I dont agree with your comment. Anybody that does business in public is on a loser. Rem Knowledge is power!

[Ricky]

To take another look at the current situation...take the word 'new' out of the quote above.

And then ask are the current owners supporting enough? £3 million is a fine gesture.

But if someone came in to buy the club right now and said they were putting in £3 million for signings you would mock them.

Funny that.

Isn't it £3m on top of the rumoured £10m we already have to spend, so in theory it's £13m and not just £3m.

[nicko]

Club is looking for a buyer who has a significant amount of money to move us forward. JW also says they want equity, not debt.

It appears to me that you get far too excited when a wannabe owner like Williams or Chodrey speaks to you about their plans. Does not mean they are right to take over our club, just because they register an interest.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you letting us know....

I never said either of them were right for the job.

What I did say is that both of them - and Ronnie - wanted to buy your club.

Funny that the local paper now accepts that as fact after previously trying to dismiss at least two of them.

Excited? I'm bored rigid with it. However it IS vitally important.

And as nobody else seems to bother chasing these people down and finding out more about them I'll have to stick at it...

[RibbleValleyRover]

Isn't it £3m on top of the rumoured £10m we already have to spend, so in theory it's £13m and not just £3m.

If thats the case then why sell Bentley?

£13 million could buy a quality attacking midfielder with some cash left over to buy a right back if thats what Ince is looking for.

I know £17 million pound would be hard to turn down but you have to think if we stick towards a 4-4-2 system, which i think we will how are we going to replace Bentley's service. No one springs to mind really.

Ince could have course play a formation without wingers, so i guess we will have to wait and see what he decides to do.

[Torgeir]

And as nobody else seems to bother chasing these people down and finding out more about them I'll have to stick at it...

Thanks for doing just that

[Majiball]

If thats the case then why sell Bentley?

£13 million could buy a quality attacking midfielder with some cash left over to buy a right back if thats what Ince is looking for.

I know £17 million pound would be hard to turn down but you have to think if we stick towards a 4-4-2 system, which i think we will how are we going to replace Bentley's service. No one springs to mind really.

Ince could have course play a formation without wingers, so i guess we will have to wait and see what he decides to do.

I find it highly unlikely we will play 442, more and more top teams are embracing the many variations of 451 and believe we will follow suit.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I find it highly unlikely we will play 442, more and more top teams are embracing the many variations of 451 and believe we will follow suit.

Then we are going to have some unhappy strikers. As Roque will be surely the lone striking option and both Benni and Derbs have been tried in and around the midfield areas and haven't done that well.

I still think a 4-4-2 can work if you have the right balance.

[Majiball]

Yes there is .... inform his agent and David Bentley that you expect him to stay until his current contract runs out in 3 years time.

17m is nearer my valuation from a month or so ago when half this board wanted to take the immature cm based attitude for 10m I'd snatch their hands off and that'll teach him! But if nicko is correct then which current English international (widely proclaimed as the new Beckham rem) could we get for £7m?

Following the above route would see us keep a damned good player that we could not replace at the money and Spurs and the Arse would be over a barrell. Spurs may pay even more if they can off load their cast offs and Arsenal may just decide to take less now rather than nothing in a few seasons.... or even do a deal with a player. The only downside is that it might sour our relations with the Arse for years to come. BUT business is business and it's time to play hardball.

OK we're not gonna get all the money yes it is dissapointting but a 233% profit and our out-lay back is good business. I always thought his fee was low now we know why. We will still have a good kitty by all accounts 20M + can still bring in some good players, and give us better balance across the whole of the pitch.

[socngill]

Then we are going to have some unhappy strikers. As Roque will be surely the lone striking option and both Benni and Derbs have been tried in and around the midfield areas and haven't done that well.

I still think a 4-4-2 can work if you have the right balance.

Not necessarily as you could play a 4-3-3 formation with Derbs as the right sided attacker with Gamst on the left and Cruz or Benni in the centre. of course that would mean less chance of Benni getting lots of games as I would have thought Cruz would be the focal point in that formation, but it would at least still accommodate two of them.

You are never going to keep all your players happy, but the club would be stupid to pick a formation and first 11 and stick to it. The intelligent approach would be to look at each opponent individually and assess what the best formation and personnel would be for each. That way you get more rotation, which keeps more players happy and keeps oppositions guessing as to your tactics.

[Majiball]

Then we are going to have some unhappy strikers. As Roque will be surely the lone striking option and both Benni and Derbs have been tried in and around the midfield areas and haven't done that well.

I still think a 4-4-2 can work if you have the right balance.

In todays game I think you need to have better fluidity of positional movement in your front players, 442 does not elude itself to this style of playing. the 5 man midfield is stronger defensively and allows for a counter attacking game based on pace (we will buy some), as Ince has so far liked to play.

I could see derbs at times being used ala Kuyt, with Benni and RSC fighting for the strikers role.

[Blue n White Rover]

Don't think anyone will come in for Bentley, If what a previous poster said was correct and we did sell Bentley we in total should have around £28 million to spend. Thay is unlikely because some of that money will go to Debts etc. However im presuming if Bentley does go we should have around £20-£25 million to spend.

Full back- £5million

Attacking Midfielder- £10million

Right Midfielder - £7-10million

Sounds good to me but then again I doubt that will happen

[Clog Blue]

OK we're not gonna get all the money yes it is dissapointting but a 233% profit and our out-lay back is good business. I always thought his fee was low now we know why. We will still have a good kitty by all accounts 20M + can still bring in some good players, and give us better balance across the whole of the pitch.

I think the point that Theno is making is that you will struggle to find a player of equal talent for the profit we make on his sale, so why sell him? We have him on a 3 year contract, make him see it out, ok he leaves for nowt but we have had his services for 3 years at a cost of 7mil.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Not necessarily as you could play a 4-3-3 formation with Derbs as the right sided attacker with Gamst on the left and Cruz or Benni in the centre. of course that would mean less chance of Benni getting lots of games as I would have thought Cruz would be the focal point in that formation, but it would at least still accommodate two of them.

You are never going to keep all your players happy, but the club would be stupid to pick a formation and first 11 and stick to it. The intelligent approach would be to look at each opponent individually and assess what the best formation and personnel would be for each. That way you get more rotation, which keeps more players happy and keeps oppositions guessing as to your tactics.

Derbs played on the right side if i recall several times this season and was useless there. Derbs is a natural goalscorer you want him in and around the box.

[waggy]

I don't understand why would a clause in Bentley's contract have an effect on the Santa Cruz fee?!

maybe the size off the clause will effect santas fee

[Majiball]

Not necessarily as you could play a 4-3-3 formation with Derbs as the right sided attacker with Gamst on the left and Cruz or Benni in the centre. of course that would mean less chance of Benni getting lots of games as I would have thought Cruz would be the focal point in that formation, but it would at least still accommodate two of them.

You are never going to keep all your players happy, but the club would be stupid to pick a formation and first 11 and stick to it. The intelligent approach would be to look at each opponent individually and assess what the best formation and personnel would be for each. That way you get more rotation, which keeps more players happy and keeps oppositions guessing as to your tactics.

I see where your coming from but really your focus should be on establishing a solid formantion based on the strenghts of our players, we are not in a position to buy to fit a style. tweaks can be made to the way you play but changing week in week out is very determental to building continuity and strong playing relationships on the pitch. Most teams play there strongest 1st 11 as often as possible, benny at the Pool has found this out, to his cost with some bad results last year.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I see where your coming from but really your focus should be on establishing a solid formantion based on the strenghts of our players, we are not in a position to buy to fit a style. tweaks can be made to the way you play but changing week in week out is very determental to building continuity and strong playing relationships on the pitch. Most teams play there strongest 1st 11 as often as possible, benny at the Pool has found this out, to his cost with some bad results last year.

If you are going off that principle then in theory a 4-4-2 would be our best formation. Two attacking full backs in Emerton and Warnock, two wingers in Bentley and Gamst that can put a ball into the box. 2 champions league winning strikers in Benni and Roque, plus you have the natural talent that is Derbs.

Its hard to judge what is our best formation would be really, we have a clear strength on the flanks and up front. But i do see other peoples points on our central midfield area.

[socngill]

Derbs played on the right side if i recall several times this season and was useless there. Derbs is a natural goalscorer you want him in and around the box.

He can cross the ball though - I was surprised watching him last season just how good he was (he's no bentley of course) and he has the pace. With that formation though he would be in and around the box as well.

[Majiball]

I think the point that Theno is making is that you will struggle to find a player of equal talent for the profit we make on his sale, so why sell him? We have him on a 3 year contract, make him see it out, ok he leaves for nowt but we have had his services for 3 years at a cost of 7mil.

Derbs played on the right side if i recall several times this season and was useless there. Derbs is a natural goalscorer you want him in and around the box.

If you gave him a licence to come inside, with say Emo coming from midfield to occupy the space left by derbs along with the new right back, liverpool have used this to good effect since settling on Kuyt out there. Derb's is reasonable quick and could get a lot of joy exploiting the gap between the full back and the centre half. I assume he will also be further forward than when he played out there last.

[RibbleValleyRover]

He can cross the ball though - I was surprised watching him last season just how good he was (he's no bentley of course) and he has the pace. With that formation though he would be in and around the box as well.

Not sure i agree.

Derbs has without doubt a natural talent for goalscoring, personally i want him in around the box all the time.

[socngill]

If you are going off that principle then in theory a 4-4-2 would be our best formation. Two attacking full backs in Emerton and Warnock, two wingers in Bentley and Gamst that can put a ball into the box. 2 champions league winning strikers in Benni and Roque, plus you have the natural talent that is Derbs.

That's assuming we keep Bentley. If not then that formation won't fit unless we can replace bentley with somebody of similar ability. i doubt we could do that so the question is how do you adapt to make the most of the current players, or those you intend to bring in. That may well be a 4-1-4-1 or a 4-2-3-1 etc formation. It's all speculation at the moment of course as we have no idea if Bentley is going, who the new players might be or what formation Ince prefers. but it beats doing any work

[RevidgeBlue]

The Bentley deal was brilliant business. You have had the use of a player who has become an England international for a small fee. The fact he could be worth £17 million and you make potentially £7 million or so clear profit just confirms it was brilliant business.

If Arsenal offered you the same deal for one of their kids today would you say 'no'?

Well it's not bad business, but it's not as good as buying for 1m and selling for 17m or paying slightly more up front and then not having any, or a much lower, sell on clause. I'd rather hoped we'd seen the last of daft clauses when we had to let Bellamy go for half his market value - and a 50% sell on clause comes into "daft" territory imo.

As with Bellamy, Bentley's career was going nowhere fast when we signed him. Bellamy was training with Newcastle's stiffs, Bentley hadn't really pulled up any trees at Norwich out on loan and Arsenal didn't want him at that stage. It was only the expertise of Hughes and his coaching staff that pulled Bentley round. In other words we do all Arsenal's hard work for them, and they take an equal share of the credit or profit.

The only bright side of this is that Arsenal Spurs and ManUre probably wouldn't want Bentley, and Liverpool and Spurs probably can't afford him at 17m. Player swap deals are a no go area for us because we'd lose DB and we'd possibly then have to stump up cash to Arsenal as well.

The real doomsday scenario for us is if Spurs manage to offload enough of their unwanted players to raise the cash for DB and then the RSC to Arsenal thing turns into reality.

Edit: We don't even know if RSC has some sort of clause allowing him also to leave on the cheap in specified circumstances. Hopefully not, but you never know.

[Bobby G]

How quickly has this appeared...

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=768185

[Majiball]

If you are going off that principle then in theory a 4-4-2 would be our best formation. Two attacking full backs in Emerton and Warnock, two wingers in Bentley and Gamst that can put a ball into the box. 2 champions league winning strikers in Benni and Roque, plus you have the natural talent that is Derbs.

Its hard to judge what is our best formation would be really, we have a clear strength on the flanks and up front. But i do see other peoples points on our central midfield area.

trouble is with many top teams playing with a holder plus two other central midfielders, you will get overloaded in the middle of the park. The 451 with a holder allows the full backs more licence to get forward as he's there to cover along with his two CB's. it would also allow our new attacking midfield more licence to create knowing he has two behind him. With the two fullbacks having more licence to get forward because of the cover also means are wide men can come inside more and get further forward.

to combat it with a 442 we need to play narrower to stop the overload in the middle which then reduces our threat on the flanks.

[RevidgeBlue]

How quickly has this appeared...

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=768185

Merely rehashing what nicko wrote this morning.

I still think it's odd that news of the existence of the sell on clause has only just emerged today.

[Bobby G]

Thats what I mean. As soon as Nicko said it, it appears elsewhere...Not a coincidence Im sure.