[Archived] Nickos (newer) Thread

[yoda]

Seat beside the manager more like...

it will all turn to dust around xmas, again!

[bringdunnback]

Wouldn't think he'd be up for sale [if indeed he is, which I don't think he IS] if he was that good. He would certainly be in the England side before Bentley as well.

Den you seem to have something against Lennon, you have to remember that Lennon is only 21, when Bentley was 21 he was a skinny little guy who's only real skill, if you can call it that, was to attempt to chip the ball over the keeper. Three years at Blackburn and he has many different qualities, granted that maybe because of Hughes, but if you read that article on Ince which tell us Ince worked on Navarro and Andrews cross field balls after training, it shows he can work on Lennon's crossing. Every point someone makes for Lennon, you seem to negate, why is this?

[den]

Den you seem to have something against Lennon, you have to remember that Lennon is only 21, when Bentley was 21 he was a skinny little guy who's only real skill, if you can call it that, was to attempt to chip the ball over the keeper. Three years at Blackburn and he has many different qualities, granted that maybe because of Hughes but if you read that article on Ince which tell us Ince worked on Navarro and Andrews cross field balls after training. Every point someone makes for Lennon, you seem to negate, why is this?

Bentley's only real skill was attempting to chip the ball over the keeper? Are you sure?

[SAS]

Bentley's only real skill was attempting to chip the ball over the keeper? Are you sure?

I know i wouldnt have gone that far.....

I was against his signing at the time

[Shevchenko]

Peruvian international keeper, Scotland under-21 midfielder, Northern Ireland striker, Norwegian left back who was wanted by Brann Bergen and Rangers.

Better than some they had last season - by a mile. Duff keepers for a start.

There are no better signings arriving at any Championship side.

And more to come - plus a profit on sales.

Not to mention finding the time to get a coaching badge or two...

Oh yeah?

Not heard anything about that here. Anyway, he'd only be a back up if he came back. Never broke into the team on a permanent basis last time he was here. Suppose it would be nice to have him since Brann have a lot of injuries right now but...he wouldn't be first choice.

[den]

When we first signed Bentley on a loan deal he did pretty much nothing. A few years later he is in the England national team. Whats all the rubbish about players "can not" improve?! Lennon has the potential to be great, and reading those "you can never learn a player new things" is just plain stupid in my opinion.

Sure, a slow player can never be fast but other than that you can pretty much improve on everything in your game.

Wow...I fully agree with you.

Strange this FLB, but I don't agree with very much of that.

Firstly, Bentley was technically a superb player at Arsenal He had skill and vision - what he lacked was the opportunity to work on his game at a club that would or could allow him enough first team games to develop his all round game, - not simply his technique.

Secondly, show me a post where anyone has claimed that players can't develop their game. Someone's not following the arguments properly.

Thirdly, if players can easily be coached into having an end product to their game, - whatever happened to Keith Gillespie. That's patently not true.

Lastly, If Bentley were to leave, why go for someone that has an obvious, serious flaw to their game?

[cn_barlow]

Strange this FLB, but I don't agree with very much of that.

Firstly, Bentley was technically a superb player at Arsenal He had skill and vision - what he lacked was the opportunity to work on his game at a club that would or could allow him enough first team games to develop his all round game, - not simply his technique.

Secondly, show me a post where anyone has claimed that players can't develop their game. Someone's not following the arguments properly.

Thirdly, if players can easily be coached into having an end product to their game, - whatever happened to Keith Gillespie. That's patently not true.

Lastly, If Bentley were to leave, why go for someone that has an obvious, serious flaw to their game?

Personally, i dont think we would replace Bentley with Lennon - if its obvious to so many on here about the flaws in his game, one would hope the management would spot this.

I do think we will go for someone in the same mould as lennon though i.e. pacey and skillful rather than a Bentleyesq player.

On a side note, people are saying that Lennon wouldnt fit into the way we play in providing crosses for Roque. I dont think we are going to playing this way for much longer. Its well documented how Ince likes to play with fast pacey wingers, and if we were to acquire some, i cant see Roque maintaining this seasons levels with that style of play. With this in mind wouldnt it be wiser to sell Roque now and get top dollar for him rather than wait until he struggles next season and sell him on for less? Just a thought.

I would mind Crouch as his replacement. Controversial.

[Iceman]

Crouch is a similar player to roque!

[den]

Crouch is a similar player to roque!

Tall?

[HemelRover]

Tall?

has arms and legs, a head...that sorta thing?

[BlueMonday]

has arms and legs, a head...that sorta thing?

Can break dance/ body pop ?

OK too much, stop now.

[FourLaneBlue]

Strange this FLB, but I don't agree with very much of that.

Firstly, Bentley was technically a superb player at Arsenal He had skill and vision - what he lacked was the opportunity to work on his game at a club that would or could allow him enough first team games to develop his all round game, - not simply his technique.

Secondly, show me a post where anyone has claimed that players can't develop their game. Someone's not following the arguments properly.

Thirdly, if players can easily be coached into having an end product to their game, - whatever happened to Keith Gillespie. That's patently not true.

Lastly, If Bentley were to leave, why go for someone that has an obvious, serious flaw to their game?

I think krislu should really be answering this as it was his quote.

However...Lennon has no skill or technique? I don´t think so. Here is a Youtube compilation...no lack of skill or technique on there. Youtube - Lennon compilation. Alas...it is from a while ago and he has gone off the rails somewhat since. Then again...if he hadn´t he would be way out of our league. Now he might be a different type of player to Bentley but I think he could be a great asset to us if Bentley does refuse to even talk to the new manager as The Independent (I think) was today suggesting.

As for end product...I have seen him put in some good crosses in. They do exist even if he is not exactly Beckhamesque (or even Bentleyesque) and his end product, when on form, is far better than those on here have suggested. I dont think mentioning another player like Keith Gillespie is particularly useful either. Some players keep on improving as they get older...some deteriorate, some have good years and bad...some are consistent. We do not know how Lennon will develop yet or whether he will develop a more cutting edge to the game as many players do.

You mentioned before that players just have "vision" and it cant be learnt. I disagree and don´t see why mentioning Bryan Douglas makes you that must be true for all. The number of players that mature into their roles and gain vision and appreciation as they get older and more experienced must be huge.

I don´t think he is likely to come but he is a good young talent and in a few years could develop into an excellent player. Or not...but then every player Rovers can sign is a gamble to some extent. All told...Lennon + serious money for Bentley would be a very good deal.

Not that is probably even remotely like happening!

[brian_gallagher85]

Thats some imagination you`ve got there!

[den]

I think krislu should really be answering this as it was his quote.

However...Lennon has no skill or technique? I don´t think so. Here is a Youtube compilation...no lack of skill or technique on there. Youtube - Lennon compilation. Alas...it is from a while ago and he has gone off the rails somewhat since. Then again...if he hadn´t he would be way out of our league. Now he might be a different type of player to Bentley but I think he could be a great asset to us if Bentley does refuse to even talk to the new manager as The Independent (I think) was today suggesting.

As for end product...I have seen him put in some good crosses in. They do exist even if he is not exactly Beckhamesque (or even Bentleyesque) and his end product, when on form, is far better than those on here have suggested. I dont think mentioning another player like Keith Gillespie is particularly useful either. Some players keep on improving as they get older...some deteriorate, some have good years and bad...some are consistent. We do not know how Lennon will develop yet or whether he will develop a more cutting edge to the game as many players do.

You mentioned before that players just have "vision" and it cant be learnt. I disagree and don´t see why mentioning Bryan Douglas makes you that must be true for all. The number of players that mature into their roles and gain vision and appreciation as they get older and more experienced must be huge.

I don´t think he is likely to come but he is a good young talent and in a few years could develop into an excellent player. Or not...but then every player Rovers can sign is a gamble to some extent. All told...Lennon + serious money for Bentley would be a very good deal.

Not that is probably even remotely like happening!

I don't think it will happen either, so why the heck are we all harping on about it?

Anyway, FLB where did I say that Lennon has no skill or technique?

The Keith Gillespie mention is useful, because if having an end product to your game [which many people agree that Lennon doesn't have] can be coached into a player, why could Gillespie never provide it on a consistent basis? Not just Gillespie either, lots of players don't have it. Gillespie is possibly on a parallel with Lennon so far as he was noticed very early in his career, but very quickly he got found out and never became a proper player because he didn't actually have an end product to his play.

Vision: name me someone that had no vision early in their career, then "learned" it? - by "vision", I mean the ability to pull a defender towards him, see another players run then pick him out with a pass that leaves defenders for dead, ala Bryan Douglas or Paul Gascoigne, on a consistent basis, virtually every game.

[blue phil]

The Keith Gillespie mention is useful, because if having an end product to your game [which many people agree that Lennon doesn't have] can be coached into a player, why could Gillespie never provide it on a consistent basis? Not just Gillespie either, lots of players don't have it. Gillespie is possibly on a parallel with Lennon so far as he was noticed very early in his career, but very quickly he got found out and never became a proper player because he didn't actually have an end product to his play.

Gillespie may never have fulfilled his potential for many reasons - not least , I guess , because his commitment and attitude toward improving his game was never 100% .

Lumping him into the same category as Lennon and writing the latter off because they both had a similar characteristic at one point of their career is quite ridiculous .

I still agree with an earlier poster who said that £8 mill + Lennon would be a wonderful deal . The truth is , IMO , that Bentley isn't worth much more than £10 - 12 mill anyhow . £15 mill + Lennon would have me doing cartwheels !

[FourLaneBlue]

I don't think it will happen either, so why the heck are we all harping on about it?

It´s summer...we always talk about any old stuff then.

Anyway, FLB where did I say that Lennon has no skill or technique?

If you didnt plenty of others did. There seems to be plenty who think he has pace and nothing else...a one-trick pony.

So if he has pace, skill and teachnique then why isn´t he worth a place at Rovers? Especially if as appears Bentley will not stay? I think the reports of his crossing are over exaggerated...he is not as bad as some on here are suggesting. It could be improved but it will. At 21...players do improve at things like crossing or shooting. If that is what "end product" means. An example was Matt Jansen...his "end product" used to be frustratingly poor but then under Souness he blossomed and suddenly what he showed in glimpses he could suddenly do most of the time. Lennon has shown in glmipses that he has fantastic skill, defence-splitting vision and....yes...great crossing! Who knows...one day he might get his stuff together and then we might be selling him on for 15million+

The Keith Gillespie mention is useful, because if having an end product to your game [which many people agree that Lennon doesn't have] can be coached into a player, why could Gillespie never provide it on a consistent basis? Not just Gillespie either, lots of players don't have it. Gillespie is possibly on a parallel with Lennon so far as he was noticed very early in his career, but very quickly he got found out and never became a proper player because he didn't actually have an end product to his play.

Sure I do not disagree but that does not mean Lennon does not have an end product or can´t improve. Nine England caps and he is only 21...twice nominated for PFA Player of the Year...Gillespie never had such a promising start as that and I do remember him at Man U. People are suggesting Lennon got found out...he had a poor season in a poor Spurs side with a new manager who played him in different places etc. Does that mean he is now finished and is not good enough for us? It is not impossible...but we do not know that.

Vision: name me someone that had no vision early in their career, then "learned" it? - by "vision", I mean the ability to pull a defender towards him, see another players run then pick him out with a pass that leaves defenders for dead, ala Bryan Douglas or Paul Gascoigne, on a consistent basis, virtually every game.

Hang on...read what I said. I never said somebody could have "no vision" and then turn into Beckenbauer. Many players who do grow into great playmakers however take time to develop. How many Cesc Fabregras´are there who are the real deal at 19? Lennon is not without vision. If he continues to learn through gaining experience (as the majority of players do...the boy wonders are usually the minority) then he can continue to improve. A Lennon of two years ago would be excellent for us.

Like I said...it probably will not happen...but you can not make out a logical argument from past examples to make a cast-iron judgement on whether or not Lennon will succeed or not. If we could see the future development of a player then we would not have to waste so much money down at Brockhall....

[ffan]

Lampard gone? - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtm...nlampard127.xml

[jim mk2]

The technique of Lennon and Gillespie when crossing the ball is incorrect in that they both tend to scoop the ball rather than drive through it in the manner of Bentley or Beckham. To use a golf analogy, they are using a 9-iron instead of a 3-iron.

Driving a cross is more difficult but it can be mastered through practice and hard work. Perhaps both players can't be bothered.

[den]

Gillespie may never have fulfilled his potential for many reasons - not least , I guess , because his commitment and attitude toward improving his game was never 100% .

Lumping him into the same category as Lennon and writing the latter off because they both had a similar characteristic at one point of their career is quite ridiculous .

Not quite as ridiculous as saying that Gillespie doesn't have the vision to open up a defence on a regular basis, is because he isn't committed.

[herbergeehh]

Norwegian left back who was wanted by Brann Bergen and Rangers.

Do you have any more info on Kalvenes? Never been close to breaking in to the national team as far as I know, and never made it at any club better than Sogndal. Rangers? Seriously?

[krislu]

Firstly, Bentley was technically a superb player at Arsenal He had skill and vision - what he lacked was the opportunity to work on his game at a club that would or could allow him enough first team games to develop his all round game, - not simply his technique.

Secondly, show me a post where anyone has claimed that players can't develop their game. Someone's not following the arguments properly.

Thirdly, if players can easily be coached into having an end product to their game, - whatever happened to Keith Gillespie. That's patently not true.

Lastly, If Bentley were to leave, why go for someone that has an obvious, serious flaw to their game?

Are you saying Bentley was a better player when he first signed a loan deal for us, than Lennon is today? That's crazy talk den, and you know it! I did not say that players can "easily" be coached into having an end product. Some players can and some can't, where Lennon in my opinion can.

What happend to Keith Gillespie? Ain't he stuck gambling at some crappy pub in Sheffield?

We should sign someone like Lennon if Bentley leaves because we will never be a team that can sign proven stars, so therefore we go for the up and comming players/managers.

Lennon would be brilliant for rovers, and if Ince is anything like Mark Hughes, he will also improve a whole lot!

[vintageadidas]

I think people need to watch a little more of Lennon. I have seen him on a fair few occasions and he does get to the bi-line to then pull it back for a tap in. He is one of the reasons that Spurs score so many every season and each season they have a player with 20+ goals.

I would be very happy with him playing for us. He is also a northern lad, so we have a chance of him signing for us and is only 21. I personally think playing for Rovers brings the best out of players as there is less pressure. We just let them get on with it, we are not as demanding as certain fans (NUFC, THFC etc)

I think he would be excellent for us

I cannot see DB is a Rovers shirt after publicly declaring he wants to move. He will get the Lucas Neill treatment off many fans. I for one did not booo LN though.

[krislu]

Do you have any more info on Kalvenes? Never been close to breaking in to the national team as far as I know, and never made it at any club better than Sogndal. Rangers? Seriously?

Kalvenes is just a poor mans darren peacock...

[roverfanuk]

Quick couple of questions for Nicko:

1- How many players can you see us buying before the new season starts?

2- Have those pesky documents been released to Chris Ronnie, the financial ones you were talking about?

[Iceman]

Apart from free kicks and crosses,i dont recall beckham being skillful or being able to beat his grandmother in a one on one situation,let alone opposition players.lennon is capable of that,he is quick and can take players on.i dont agree with the position he plays.i stil think pop him in central midfield,and he wil be much better.