[Archived] Do You Approve Of The New Manager?

[Roaming Rover]

By all accounts Ince wants Andrews, considering he just happened to be his captain it's pretty obvious there's a common factor isnt there?

And don't even try and compare Reid, Neill and Jansen with Andrews. The former were exciting young talents playing a division below us. The latter is a 27 year old journeyman midfielder who has failed even at Championship level.

Who's accounts??? All I know is John Williams has said he is not a target in the LT. All other quotes have come from the nationals and we know how reliable they are.

Not comparing Andrews to any of those 3, but its easy to say they were not a risk after the event. In any case Ince has watched Andrews week in week out and knows more than most what it takes to be a top midfielder.

[tony gale's mic]

If that's an example of your education constructing an argument, then I suspect your gifts have been largely wasted on you. Mostly tittle-tattle that has yet to happen and conveniently missing out the real signings of two internationals.

Nicko has said Ince is keen on Andrews, and while you might dismiss that as 'tittle-tattle' thats good enough for me. It's also come from various other sources too. That in itself is worrying. And again, he's brought in Robbie Fowler, the fact he thinks he might be good enough when he wasnt even good enough for the Championship is another worrying sign.

Robinson hardly excites me, he's not a current international and was dropped by both club and country last season. Villaneuva does excite me, but at the same time I'm cautious. He may well find it very hard to adapt and Tim Vickery who's one of the most knowledgable men going about South American football has said it represents a "bit of a gamble". It is good that we have him on the loan though.

[CrazyIvan]

This entire thing makes me laugh...

Hughes took gambles on players some of whom couldn't even get reserve games for their clubs. Some examples of his gambles are: -

Nelsen - Big gamble

Santa Cruz - Big gamble

Bentley - Big gamble

Bellamy - Big gamble - one of the biggest just down to his temperament!

What is the difference with Ince and his signings? Up to now he has actually only made ONE and that is an international goalkeeper! Andrews has not happened and even if it does we shall see what he is made of. Fowler hasn't signed but is being given a chance to prove himself.

The only thing that we should really be doing is watching and waiting rather than making minds up on some news rumours and peoples half-baked opinions.

Snipe at each other all you want but the truth is we won't see what Ince is made of, 'uneducated' or not, until the season starts.

[Manchester Blue]

Way over the top MB.

I, along with others have a view that Ince shouldn't be selling our top players, if indeed he is, at this moment in time. If you read back, that's what I've said.

Stop making false accusations and trying to put labels on people..

So you didn't claim to be desperately concerned?

[den]

So you didn't claim to be desperately concerned?

Yes I am. Is that the best you can do ?

Tell me this, - if Bentley leaves and if Rocky and Warnock ask to leave, would you let them? If yes, wont you be concerned and if no - why wouldn't you let them leave, [because the logic is that you can't keep an unhappy player]?

Or do you stop at two leaving because you've had enough of players wanting away?

[tony gale's mic]

This entire thing makes me laugh...

Hughes took gambles on players some of whom couldn't even get reserve games for their clubs. Some examples of his gambles are: -

Nelsen - Big gamble

Santa Cruz - Big gamble

Bentley - Big gamble

Bellamy - Big gamble - one of the biggest just down to his temperament!

What is the difference with Ince and his signings? Up to now he has actually only made ONE and that is an international goalkeeper! Andrews has not happened and even if it does we shall see what he is made of. Fowler hasn't signed but it being given a chance to prove himself.

The only thing that we should really be doing is watching and waiting rather than making minds up on some news rumours and peoples half-baked opinions.

Snipe at each other all you want but the truth is we won't see what Ince is made of, 'uneducated' or not, until the season starts.

Aside from Santa Cruz, the other examples aren't really comparable. Nelsen was consistently voted in the MLS all-star teams and was signed on a free. Bentley we bought in on a loan first, was rated as an exciting young prospect who had lost his way a bit. Bellamy had proved himself at the highest level and his abilities were never doubted, he just had big disagreements with Shearer and Souness at Newcastle. Even Santa Cruz was a Champions League winner with Bayern.

[gazsimm]

Yes I am. Is that the best you can do ?

Tell me this, - if Bentley leaves and if Rocky and Warnock ask to leave, would you let them? If yes, wont you be concerned and if no - why wouldn't you let them leave, [because the logic is that you can't keep an unhappy player]?

Or do you stop at two leaving because you've had enough of players wanting away?

we are Blackburn Rovers if a bigger more ambitious club come in for one of our star players and offer the right money, we can not do anything about it i am affraid.

It's not Ince's fault and i can't blame anyone else we are not a bigger enough club to turn down big offers for our top players, unless we get a new backer who can put some real big cash into the club.

[CrazyIvan]

Aside from Santa Cruz, the other examples aren't really comparable. Nelsen was consistently voted in the MLS all-star teams and was signed on a free. Bentley we bought in on a loan first, was rated as an exciting young prospect who had lost his way a bit. Bellamy had proved himself at the highest level and his abilities were never doubted, he just had big disagreements with Shearer and Souness at Newcastle. Even Santa Cruz was a Champions League winner with Bayern.

Comparable to who? As I've said, the only player Ince has signed is Paul Robinson. A player who has lost his way maybe? One who could be compared directly to the man he replaced. That was a gamble by Souness and a great many people wondered what the hell he was doing at the time.

I will maintain that those players and others signed by Hughes are gambles. Signing any player is a gamble but to sign a complete unknown (in the UK) from a league frequently ridiculed while Rovers were in dire straits was a massive gamble but look how it paid off. Nelsen was a rock that season.

Don't judge Ince yet, there is not enough evidence of any kind to make a proper and complete judgment without jumping to conclusions. Taking rumour and supposition aside there is no evidence of poor managerial skills, there is some pointing to someone who might have a clue but again not enough evidence.

The only conclusion I have come to yet is that Ince needs to learn to speak in front of the cameras a little better...

[T4E]

Interesting - I hadn't thought of it that way. You might just have swayed me into agreeing with you and criticising everything he does.

I am so glad we are having such a stimulating discussion on this board as to our new manager's merits.

No honestly, he's rubbish.

[The Prof.]

I've decided unilaterally that Ince actually isn't our Manager. It's a committee made up of JW, Rob Coar, a trustee fellow, Ince, Cox and the tealady.

Ince is in fact Head Coach like they have at Real and instead of 'hand holding' he's actually being told what to do up to the dressing room.

I don't like this situation at all.

[tonyoz]

I've decided unilaterally that Ince actually isn't our Manager. It's a committee made up of JW, Rob Coar, a trustee fellow, Ince, Cox and the tealady.

Ince is in fact Head Coach like they have at Real and instead of 'hand holding' he's actually being told what to do up to the dressing room.

I don't like this situation at all.

Interesting...................and you know this how?

[Manchester Blue]

Yes I am. Is that the best you can do ?

Tell me this, - if Bentley leaves and if Rocky and Warnock ask to leave, would you let them? If yes, wont you be concerned and if no - why wouldn't you let them leave, [because the logic is that you can't keep an unhappy player]?

Or do you stop at two leaving because you've had enough of players wanting away?

Den you're changing position more than Brett Emerton. You start off being desperately concerned and then get upset when people claim you are being OTT. I explain why I think you were being OTT and you claim I am in fact way over the top!!! SO I ask you to clarify and you admit you are desperately concerned and is that the best I can do!!

Bizarre to say the least. My point is that at a time when we have not played a single competitive game, when we have lost one player and replaced with another who stats showed has performed better and was England no1 until recently to claim to be desperately concerned is ridiculous.

[tony gale's mic]

replaced with another who stats showed has performed better

Rubbish. I'm unhappy with Ince's appointment and his moves so far, but any full judgement will be reserved till we play games. But as long as those who blindly support Ince carry on with tripe like this then I'll keep feeling like banging my head against a wall.

Robinson might have kept more clean sheets. That does NOT mean he performed better. Stats dont record how many goals the keeper was at fault for do they? It's pretty much a nailed on fact Brad has been the better keeper over the last few years so why pretend otherwise?

[CrazyIvan]

Rubbish. I'm unhappy with Ince's appointment and his moves so far, but any full judgement will be reserved till we play games. But as long as those who blindly support Ince carry on with tripe like this then I'll keep feeling like banging my head against a wall.

Robinson might have kept more clean sheets. That does NOT mean he performed better. Stats dont record how many goals the keeper was at fault for do they? It's pretty much a nailed on fact Brad has been the better keeper over the last few years so why pretend otherwise?

Why are you banging your head against a wall?

I don't know how you can say a 'nailed on fact' about an opinion. The stats say Robinson kept more clean sheets, that's down to Robinson and his defense. I didn't watch every minute of every Spurs game over the past few seasons so I couldn't say for definite whether he is any better or worse than Brad over the same period of time. My opinion is that he had a nightmare last season from what I have seen. His appointment, in my opinion, is a remarkable one and I think he'll prove to be a very good signing indeed.

The truth is that Rovers board appointed an untried (at this level) manager and took a gamble on something they see in him. They did the same with Hughes, he was completely untried at this level. Were you upset by that appointment or are you unhappy for some other reason?

[tony gale's mic]

Why are you banging your head against a wall?

I don't know how you can say a 'nailed on fact' about an opinion. The stats say Robinson kept more clean sheets, that's down to Robinson and his defense. I didn't watch every minute of every Spurs game over the past few seasons so I couldn't say for definite whether he is any better or worse than Brad over the same period of time. My opinion is that he had a nightmare last season from what I have seen. His appointment, in my opinion, is a remarkable one and I think he'll prove to be a very good signing indeed.

The truth is that Rovers board appointed an untried (at this level) manager and took a gamble on something they see in him. They did the same with Hughes, he was completely untried at this level. Were you upset by that appointment or are you unhappy for some other reason?

No I was happy with Hughes' appointment, he'd worked with top level players, done successfully against top level opposition. That's not comparable to Ince, whose successes have all been at a much lower level to ours. Sure he might work out, but I'm not overly confident he will. I did start thinking he was a bit too insular for my liking though when it came to the England job being debated after McLaren being sacked, he was the loudest voice going that we should in no way appoint a foreign manager and go instead for an English candidate yet again (despite there being no good candidates at the time). Lets just hope this narrow mindedness doesnt transfer itself to his management approach.

Robinson's appointment might go well, very well even. I don't even have that much against it. But to call it "remarkable" and to rewrite history as if Robinson has been better than Friedel these last few seasons is nothing short of blinkered. I haven't seen every minute of Chelsea's games, but I'm pretty sure Essien is a better player than Steven Reid.

[RevidgeBlue]

Every summer we slated the media for unsettling our players and linking them with other clubs, now its not the media's fault but Ince's......

That's about the top and bottom of it - exacerbated this summer by the fact that players were bound to be a little unsettled by Hughes leaving.

[den]

Den you're changing position more than Brett Emerton. You start off being desperately concerned and then get upset when people claim you are being OTT. I explain why I think you were being OTT and you claim I am in fact way over the top!!! SO I ask you to clarify and you admit you are desperately concerned and is that the best I can do!!

Bizarre to say the least. My point is that at a time when we have not played a single competitive game, when we have lost one player and replaced with another who stats showed has performed better and was England no1 until recently to claim to be desperately concerned is ridiculous.

What on earth makes you think I'm upset MB?

Changing position from concerned to desperately concerned? Well goodness.

I thought you knew more about football as well, than to state "stats tell us that Robinson has performed better than Friedel".

Notice you didn't answer my question either. which suggests you're fishing for reactions.

[CrazyIvan]

No I was happy with Hughes' appointment, he'd worked with top level players, done successfully against top level opposition. That's not comparable to Ince, whose successes have all been at a much lower level to ours. Sure he might work out, but I'm not overly confident he will. I did start thinking he was a bit too insular for my liking though when it came to the England job being debated after McLaren being sacked, he was the loudest voice going that we should in no way appoint a foreign manager and go instead for an English candidate yet again (despite there being no good candidates at the time). Lets just hope this narrow mindedness doesnt transfer itself to his management approach.

Robinson's appointment might go well, very well even. I don't even have that much against it. But to call it "remarkable" and to rewrite history as if Robinson has been better than Friedel these last few seasons is nothing short of blinkered. I haven't seen every minute of Chelsea's games, but I'm pretty sure Essien is a better player than Steven Reid.

I object to the 'rewriting history' comment. I have in no way rewritten any kind of history and I have not said Robinson was better than Friedel once. That is putting words in my mouth. My reason for saying the signing is remarkable is the current valuation of an English International goalkeeper. Three million in the current climate is remarkable in my book. That's it. Calling me blinkered is completely unfair and wrong.

His opinion over the England job is just that, his opinion. I doubt it'll have any effect on his managerial style. We'll see what happens in a few weeks when we start the season what his managerial style is and whether he can cut it at this level.

[tony gale's mic]

I object to the 'rewriting history' comment. I have in no way rewritten any kind of history and I have not said Robinson was better than Friedel once. That is putting words in my mouth. My reason for saying the signing is remarkable is the current valuation of an English International goalkeeper. Three million in the current climate is remarkable in my book. That's it. Calling me blinkered is completely unfair and wrong.

His opinion over the England job is just that, his opinion. I doubt it'll have any effect on his managerial style. We'll see what happens in a few weeks when we start the season what his managerial style is and whether he can cut it at this level.

I wasn't referring to you rewriting history, but the other poster when he said 'statistics show that Robinson has been better than Friedel'.

And £3.5 million for a keeper who had fallen out of favour at Spurs? Sounds about right.

He may have been England international at one point. But that was when he was much better than he is right now, and he hardly kept any outstanding candidates out of the side did he? That was more down to there not being a great deal of other options. Phil Neville has considerably more caps than Robinson...

[CrazyIvan]

I wasn't referring to you rewriting history, but the other poster when he said 'statistics show that Robinson has been better than Friedel'.

And £3.5 million for a keeper who had fallen out of favour at Spurs? Sounds about right.

He may have been England international at one point. But that was when he was much better than he is right now, and he hardly kept any outstanding candidates out of the side did he? That was more down to there not being a great deal of other options. Phil Neville has considerably more caps than Robinson...

Your comment was quite obviously aimed in my direction because of the rest of your sentence. If you'd like me to quote it here I will do.

Phil Neville started playing for England in 1996 and has 59 caps. Paul Robinson started playing for England in 2003 and has 41 caps. Hmm... 7 years and 18 more caps? Chalk and cheese...

We shall see if buying Robinson was good business. I suspect it will have been.

[tony gale's mic]

Your comment was quite obviously aimed in my direction because of the rest of your sentence. If you'd like me to quote it here I will do.

Phil Neville started playing for England in 1996 and has 59 caps. Paul Robinson started playing for England in 2003 and has 41 caps. Hmm... 7 years and 18 more caps? Chalk and cheese...

We shall see if buying Robinson was good business. I suspect it will have been.

It was aimed in your direction, but only because you were supporting the poster that I thought was 'rewriting history'.

And still, the fact is both have considerable numbers of England caps, and Phil Neville is hardly considered as a particularly good player. Just goes to show England caps don't necessarily mean that much if its in an area we were deficient in.

He might work out well, but fact is £3.5 million is about right for a player in his current situation, it's certainly nothing spectacular and he definitely wasn't better than Friedel.

[CrazyIvan]

It was aimed in your direction, but only because you were supporting the poster that I thought was 'rewriting history'.

And still, the fact is both have considerable numbers of England caps, and Phil Neville is hardly considered as a particularly good player. Just goes to show England caps don't necessarily mean that much if its in an area we were deficient in.

He might work out well, but fact is £3.5 million is about right for a player in his current situation, it's certainly nothing spectacular and he definitely wasn't better than Friedel.

I was trying to make the point that your 'nailed on fact' is an opinion. Re-read my post.

[tony gale's mic]

I was trying to make the point that your 'nailed on fact' is an opinion. Re-read my post.

And I said, technically, so is saying Essien is a better midfielder than Steven Reid.

But some opinions are so obvious they practically are facts.

[Tris]

Rubbish. I'm unhappy with Ince's appointment and his moves so far, but any full judgement will be reserved till we play games. But as long as those who blindly support Ince carry on with tripe like this then I'll keep feeling like banging my head against a wall.

Come back when the wall has won.

32 posts today and every single one a whinge.

You are rapidly becoming the most tiresome thing about this MB just now, and that's quite an achievement in the circumstances.

(And by the way - it's simply not worth bothering to respond to anything in your posts - you quite clearly are incapable of understanding any viewpoint other than your own. Hence the 32 posts no doubt.

You keep calling those who are giving Paul Ince a chance "blindly" supporting him, we'll decide who is being "blind" . 32 posts )

[The Prof.]

Interesting...................and you know this how?

Well I don't know it but have unilaterally declared it after trawling around the argy bargy on Nicko's thread(must be the heat over here- we're not used to it.)

Quotes

"Someone's holding his hand" - nicko on Ince

"The Chairman might decide to put his foot down," (on Warnock sale) nicko

"It's being seriously considered by some" - nicko on Warnock sale

Plus a little confidential inside info.

I thought the Manager was always in charge but I don't get that feeling.