[Archived] Do You Approve Of The New Manager?

[gbax]

Because you usually don't see a manager reassuring a player of his future unless there has been well publicised discussions between the manager and player about their future or when a manager brings a new player in a similar position.

It may well be a case of Ince just saying Derbs will be in his plans and that he rates him, but most examples I have seen where a manager publicly says a player is in his plans and he will feature there has been something going on in the background.

I don’t know what’s going on, but it does feel a little strange to me.

Whats wrong with giving a young lad a public pat on the back? It will give him gtreat confidence for the season ahead and is a great way to motivate anyone. H'll be banging them in in training today. It's called being a manager, not just football, but in all business, confidence breeds success.

With your theory, how would you read into the fact Ince has just been GOING PUBLIC on Radio Lancs and stated that he has given Dunn more responsibility by being appointed the club's vice-captain for the new season??? I bet Dunns haed is extra large now Ince has said this!

[benhben]

Is this the story that people have been referring to in previous posts?

http://msn.football365.com/story/0,17033,1...3913909,00.html

My Dad said before we appointed ince that some of his friends have met Paul Ince previously and really disliked him, claiming hes an arrogant man who speaks down to everyone. I thought it was just rubbish but sounds more true every day.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Whats wrong with giving a young lad a public pat on the back? It will give him gtreat confidence for the season ahead and is a great way to motivate anyone. H'll be banging them in in training today. It's called being a manager, not just football, but in all business, confidence breeds success.

I agree there’s nothing wrong with that, and like you said it could have a positive effect.

But surely you will agree that it’s a move not often used by managers unless there has been some disharmony in the background or the player fearing what the future holds because of a new signing?

[gbax]

I agree there’s nothing wrong with that, and like you said it could have a positive effect.

But surely you will agree that it’s a move not often used by managers unless there has been some disharmony in the background or the player fearing what the future holds because of a new signing?

How can you know there has been any disharmony unless you where there or heard from a good source. What other example have you got?

You are taking a situation that neither of us know anything about and reading something negative. All I'm sayinging is why see it as negative. Why not take it for what it is?

[Majiball]

With reference to Derb's, lets look at the last year. He was a sub more often than not getting 20 mins here and there. Ince came in and for the first few games he's stuck out on the wing, out of position. I think its fair to say that even though he is Rovers through and through he would want 1 to be playing more regularly 2 To be playing in his prefered position.

Given that the manager has now come out and said He's part of my plans, I want him here. I think its fair to assume that derb's might have asked the manager if he was required. By going public Ince has given a far stronger message of his faith in the young man, than just saying it to him in Private. Derb's will then be bouyed by the statement, his confidence raised, which can only be good for the club.

[RibbleValleyRover]

How can you know there has been any disharmony unless you where there or heard from a good source. What other example have you got?

I have no proof nor do i know what’s going on behind the scenes, but that’s not the point I am making. The point I am making is when a manager publicly reassures a player about their future or their role in the team it’s usually because either there has been some discussions in the background or a new player has come in who plays the same or similar position.

I haven't made any claims i know what is going on. I was just throwing up the possibility of another angle based on whats happened in the past with other clubs and managers.

[John]

Be interested to see how Ince reacts to these alleged stories. I guess, it depends if there is much truth in them.

As I mentioned in my previous post, he needs to retain belief in what he is doing and try not fly off the handle. Due to his natural enthusiasm which apparently is infectious, you still have to remain an element of control.

In the interviews I have seen on Rovers World, he looks like he is losing it a bit on certain things. He said it was 'bang out of order' and 'not on' that other clubs are coming in for our players. He looked genuinely angry about this in particular.

[rebelmswar]

Would it please be possible to reset this poll before the kick off of the season?

I think it would be interesting to see how well the press works.

I myself have always been a bit disenfranchised with Ince but am praying nightly that he does not mess it all up as all Rovers supporters should, regardless of how much they dislike the apointment. We have been lucky, very lucky, to have astute meticulous managers, (Souness not so much meticulous but a good man manager) in recent years that seem to be custom made for the Rovers job. I just do not see this in Ince, yet.

I feel he may be another Kidd.

[The Prof.]

Some Points: It ain't over for Incey by a long chalk but he needs to change things quickly or........

- Discount our millionaire players eh? tell them to shut up, they'll be off and we'll go down. They are millionaires because of what they bring - 'ol cloth ears has to listen to at least some of them. Not sure he's actually talked to them yet.

- Players feeling unsettled because they are not certain of a place - fine if you're a big club, you can replace them - and they don't go 'I'm off.'

- Training - it's not 'new' - it's agricultural. Needs changing now.

- Incoming players - Not convincing enough, might be okay - but still if you're watching you new boss bring in a fat scouser then you won't be too motivated will you. This is the defining bad move for me. How many games is he going to get - earn a contract - the damage amongst the senior players has already been done. It's not just one - there are quite a few.

- Backroom staff - Dad's Army - sack soon.

- Ince's response - doesn't seem to be able to make one. Must make a definative statement soon.

I have no proof nor do i know what’s going on behind the scenes, but that’s not the point I am making. The point I am making is when a manager publicly reassures a player about their future or their role in the team it’s usually because either there has been some discussions in the background or a new player has come in who plays the same or similar position.

I haven't made any claims i know what is going on. I was just throwing up the possibility of another angle based on whats happened in the past with other clubs and managers.

About a week after Hughes came a number of the players including Friedel had stated how innovative training was. The blanket silence says more that the odd moan.

[Parsonblue]

I think you along with roversmum have hit the nail on the head.

My over-riding impression after pre-season thus far and reading that article, is that Ince is far more prepared to give the younger members of the squad a fair crack of the whip. I suspect one or two (I doubt it's more than that) senior players can see their guaranteed place in the 16 coming to an end and don't like being being pushed out of the comfort zone.

I was told yesterday from a reliable enough source that under Hughes the younger players had to train with the first team squad for a certain minimum period of several months before they would even be considered for first team selection!

As for Bentley, the press ups thing is being taken completely out of context. He might have been being a complete tool from the minute he reported back for pre season training for all we know. Or it might have been something as part of raising fitness early on that was being done in good humour, which everyone apart from DB accepted.

The problem with humilating players in public is that it does nothing for team building. The coach involved may not have seen it as a form of humilation. In the Fourth Division it might well be the norm. If so it merely underlines that the coaching staff are not shifting their approach to meet the needs of international, Premier League players. Ultimately, if the player on the end of this treatment believes he is being ridiculed in front of his colleagues then it is understandable for him to react badly.

After four years of excellent progress under Hughes my big fear is that all that splendid work can be quickly undone. Just look at how quickly Jim Iley made a mess of things after Jim Smith left. Those who can remember that period will know that this is a road that we have travelled down before. When a manager loses the players there can only be one winner and it's never the manager!

[DingleBaiter]

No the difference is that whilst Brown had rank and file dissent he has always (until this last week) had front bench support. Sounds like Paul Ince does not command that at the moment.

The problem with your logic seems to be that it doesn't work both ways.

Of course Brown's front bench will support him - he appointed them! What job does Milliband do BTW?

To extend that point to Ince, would you expect Matthias to speak out against Ince?

The problem with the 'article' is that it plays into the hands of the pitchforkers, as indicative of the downside to forums, sources and living in the (mis) information age. Folk can tend to get sidetracked from what matters most - there is a tendency for people to get more enthused about opining on here than the 'core activity' of supporting a footy team. Personally, I could lose everything else as long as I got to the games, but it's the other way round for some people on here. Consequently, a lot of tripe gets spouted without any degree of quality control, people react to that, the issues are compounded.

For instance, you responded previously by comparing Allardyce, who it seems would have been be a better option in your option. I disagree, but it doesn't matter really who's right, who's wrong, and it probably won't ever be proved one way or t'other.

Question - if Allardyce had been put into the job and everything we're seeing now was replicated by him, would you be man enough to admit your fella was equally as poor as Ince, and extend the same negativity as you seem to be just now? I suggest you'd buffer your response to some degree or obfuscate the issue.

The bottom line to me is if we all let the pitchforkers create the mass hysteria, the situation will become completely untenable without being judge in a calm, intelligent objective manner.

I always used to like the story of how they treat that poor lil simian in Hartlepool (although a myth) as it illustrates the dangers of letting hysteria getting in the way of common sense.

[DingleBaiter]

There are always two sides to a story, and we've only heard one.

With the advent of forums, blogs, media spin, citizen journalists etc all contributing to the (mis) information age is there is often a MINIMUM of two! Given the amount of players, staff, hangers on, all it takes is a seed of a 'story' that fits someone's agenda and it's out in the ether, often with a degree of embellishment. At least Nicko alluded to the fact there was some spin or that the release of said article served a party's purpose.

Let's cut to the chase - everyone prefers the negatives don't they? Facts are always sparse, opinions plentiful, knowledge & objectivity rare.

If someone posted a contrary story exactly the opposite of the Mail 'article', they'd be laughed at as spin, and a minority would be happy to hear it. Post a rumour, or an unsubstantiated article, and the lynch mob's getting the rope out.

[jim mk2]

Rumours of problems in the Rovers camp have been circulating in the press for 2 weeks - football reporters knew about it but chose to ignore it as player whingeing but the Mail broke ranks and decided to make something of it.

Cue follow up stories tomorrow in the red tops.

[John]

Further sign that Ince could be losing it (tounge in cheek!) - From article in LET

Although Ince was unhappy with his side’s defending at Molineux, he was more than satisfied with the South African’s contribution.

He said: “We had the chance of play Aaron or Zurab, but I thought we’d have a look at Aaron.

“Sparky brought him to Rovers as a centre-half, but he continued to play him in midfield.

“He’s strong, quick and put in a lot of great tackles.

“He’s one I can look at for that position.”

[roversmum]

*Mum weeps quietly in corner*

On second thoughts - yells -NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Please, somebody, wake me up!

article here

[almuncle]

*Mum weeps quietly in corner*

On second thoughts - yells -NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Please, somebody, wake me up!

article here

Wakey, wakey! Ince is bigging him up in the press .I think he's on his way as soon as Ince can convince someone to buy him!

Does this win a glass half full award?( Sorry , forgot I don't need to ask a Question on this thread)

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Recent transfers are a clear indication that players couldn’t care a flying fig about the clubs or supporters, or even playing the game. All they are bothered about is how much they can squeeze out of the clubs and supporters.

The only people that care about the clubs and the game itself are the supporters

Sadly thats all too true Alan.

The people who are showing concern at these unrest stories are showing they care for the well being of the club in my opinion.To my knowledge I cant EVER remember hearing of this unrest before under any previous manager at Rovers pre-season,I may be wrong but I just cant recall hearing it word of mouth let alone such news reaching the national ruddy tabloids!.

People want Ince to succeed and be successful at Ewood,NOBODY wants him to be a failure but these stories are doing him no favours.

Like many have stated we will find out soon enough whether he is up to the job,the Premiership takes no prisoners.

[RevidgeBlue]

Wakey, wakey! Ince is bigging him up in the press .I think he's on his way as soon as Ince can convince someone to buy him!

Does this win a glass half full award?( Sorry , forgot I don't need to ask a Question on this thread)

Indeed, where have Stoke buggered off to with their 2m spondoolis?

[Silencio]

Sadly thats all too true Alan.

The people who are showing concern at these unrest stories are showing they care for the well being of the club in my opinion.To my knowledge I cant EVER remember hearing of this before under any previous manager at Rovers pre-season,I may be wrong but I just cant recall hearing of it.

Well said, it's unfair of people to suggest those that are very worried (including myself) aren't real fans or haven't been going to games for long. The worries are based on some pretty strong evidence in my opinion.

[DingleBaiter]

To my knowledge I cant EVER remember hearing of this before under any previous manager at Rovers pre-season,I may be wrong but I just cant recall hearing of it.

Just playing Devil's advocate for a second, on the flip side I can think of MANY cases of mock-spin trite comments from players etc bigging up a new regime. Crikey, it even happened with Kidd, and look how that ended up! I remember Arnaldo being held up as a prime example of the Penguin's cosmopolitan coaching methods, then him signing a clogger like Peacock.

A bit of perspective does go a long way at times like this. IF the players threw comments into the media bigging Ince up, I'm sure most fans would still make their mind up at some point in the future.

[RevidgeBlue]

The worries are based on some pretty strong evidence in my opinion.

Tittle tattle in a newspaper more probable than not originating from a player who has left us and another who was told he wasn't in acceptable physical condition.

[Alan75]

Sadly thats all too true Alan.

The people who are showing concern at these unrest stories are showing they care for the well being of the club in my opinion.To my knowledge I cant EVER remember hearing of this before under any previous manager at Rovers pre-season,I may be wrong but I just cant recall hearing of it.

People want Ince to succeed and be successful at Ewood,NOBODY wants him to be a failure but these stories are doing him no favours.

Like many have stated we will find out soon enough whether he is up to the job,the Premiership takes no prisoners.

Maybe you havent been around as long as me SG194 but the last time we had rumours like this was back in the 1978-79 pre season. And I dare not mention what happened that season.

The manager lasted 172 days

[Roost]

Is this the story that people have been referring to in previous posts?

http://msn.football365.com/story/0,17033,1...3913909,00.html

My Dad said before we appointed ince that some of his friends have met Paul Ince previously and really disliked him, claiming hes an arrogant man who speaks down to everyone. I thought it was just rubbish but sounds more true every day.

What, like Brian Clough used to? Well, lets just hope that Ince turns out be somewhere near as good as Clough and I will be planning my next Rovers Euro shindig next season......

[philipl]

I cannot believe I have just read those comments attributed to Paul Ince in the LT. The cautious part of me is feeling sick in the pit of my stomach.

Perhaps Ince really has been away from top flight football long enough to think a back four including both Reid and Mokoena will be good enough?

Lucky Everton.

[JAL]

Further sign that Ince could be losing it (tounge in cheek!) - From article in LET

Although Ince was unhappy with his side’s defending at Molineux, he was more than satisfied with the South African’s contribution.

He said: “We had the chance of play Aaron or Zurab, but I thought we’d have a look at Aaron.

“Sparky brought him to Rovers as a centre-half, but he continued to play him in midfield.

“He’s strong, quick and put in a lot of great tackles.

“He’s one I can look at for that position.”

That says it all John, Inces cover has been blown, hes been shown up, i say sack the lot today and lets hold our hands up and admit Rovers have made a mistake and lets try to get back on track as soon as is possible if the walker trust allow it.

Could Moyes be available with the right encouragement.