[Archived] Do You Approve Of The New Manager?

[den]

How hard do you think Ince should've tried to keep Bentley? Or MH if he were still in charge?

Hughes and Williams had already told Bentley that he would be here another year. In any case. there's no way he should have been allowed to leave until Ince found another right winger. Which begs the question - is there no-one left at Ewood that can tell Ince that Bert can't be effective as a right winger? It's like going back two years and starting over again. The mind boggles at what's going on.

[Al]

I think Hughes realised that Brad and Bentley were leaving and jumped ship, he has walked into a disaster at City, can he cope? Dont think so.

Ince walked (eyes open) into a nightmare scenario at Macclesfield, 12 points adrift at the bottom of the football league, he did the impossible and saved them from relegation,

Question: How do you get a bunch of players playing for the worst team in the football league to win football matches, you inspire them. I am getting happier by the day that we made the right choice for our club, we need to give Ince time.

Oh for the pessimists out there, we will not be in relegation battle because we have one of the best defences in the league and two top notch strikers who will keep us out of it.

Two top notch strikers? We have Roque. Have we signed another without my knowledge?

[imy9]

Benni McCarthy (given the right service and injury free) is a top notch striker, that would be a proven goal scorer, champions league winner and a person who HAS scored 18 premiership goals in a single season in England, how many teams outside the top 4 can boast of two players of the quality of RSC and McCarthy?

[DingleBaiter]

he has no margin for error right now.

Ince has to earn the respect of the supporters of which i'm sceptical right now, hes under enormous pressure form many of us which for me is a good thing for Paul Ince because if he can come through this then he'll be a lot wiser and stronger for the experience and a better manager for it.

But the pressure has to remain relentless on Paul Ince and his staff, as at the end of the day its only the good of Blackburn Rovers football club that we are interested in and its shared success.

With respect, I agree with a lot of your comments although I feel the pressure you're looking to create could prove counter-productive.

Ince has no margin for error? So Hughes didn't have then, even after three good seasons I presume? Plopping out of the FA Cup, UEFA and a capitulation on the last day strike me as failings.

Let's put a situation into the mix, call it hypothetical. Hughes had identified a long-standing centre midfield target to come into the squad this close season. A lad with a lot of talent, but a bit of a reputation, and to most people he'd probably be considered either a journeyman or a waster. He'd even set up the deal so the lad would come in on a free transfer, despite moving for several millions a short while back. So, my question is - if Ince signs this lad, would he get exactly the same reaction as if Hughes had? I'm certain he wouldn't, due to bias. Hughes signs him, it's a astute signing/good business/minor gamble, Ince signs him it's like why would we want him? As with most things on here, people will read/believe what they want to. Any snippets, no matter how unrealistic, if they can be twisted then they will be.

Look at this Friedel story now - two good 'sources' with two conflicting stories. Who should we believe? Neither, to save hassle and stress I'd suggest? All that matters ultimately on that level is the facts - Friedel's gone. End of day, we'll probably never know, and it will just fizzle into other urban myths we've created about Rovers and recent similar 'exclusives'.

I respect Ince has a massive learning curve, but I think there's a massive difference in not slackening off & setting targets for Ince, rather than keeping up relentless pressure on the guy. Anyone that thinks the link between the two regimes will be seamless, and by creating even more pressure by being prejudiced before a competitive ball is kicked will probably only lead one way. Then again, maybe that's what the pitchforkers want? Is it really in our clubs's best interests to start conjuring up criteria for the guy to achieve? I'm all for being ambitious, and having realistic expectations & ambitions, but to extend different criteria to Ince as a lot of 'fans' seem to have already done is a bit poor IMO. My main problem with the pitchforkers is I'd just rather them say I don't like and he should be sacked ASAP, not hide behind obscure justifications and finding fault for fault's sake.

So, we've GOT to sign a class player? We've GOT to get rid of McCarthy? Whilst agreeing both may be nice, I don't view them as essential to my support or how I will judge Ince. I agree, it's not all sunny at Ewood at the moment, but to increase that pressure due to unrealistic expectations or unreasonable criteria isn't conducive to the best interests of our club & is far from ideal.

I would possibly be as upset as the pitchforkers are IF we'd have appointed Allardyce, but I would like to think that in the bigger picture, influential people who are better placed to make decisions have made them, so I should respect that and at least put my prejudice to one side, certainly for a decent period to judge him in.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Bumped into an old chum of mine today who's a mate of one of our current players. Bottom line is the players are dissatisfied with our old fashioned training methods ( sit-ups , press- ups etc ).

[JAL]

With respect, I agree with a lot of your comments although I feel the pressure you're looking to create could prove counter-productive.

Ince has no margin for error? So Hughes didn't have then, even after three good seasons I presume? Plopping out of the FA Cup, UEFA and a capitulation on the last day strike me as failings.

Let's put a situation into the mix, call it hypothetical. Hughes had identified a long-standing centre midfield target to come into the squad this close season. A lad with a lot of talent, but a bit of a reputation, and to most people he'd probably be considered either a journeyman or a waster. He'd even set up the deal so the lad would come in on a free transfer, despite moving for several millions a short while back. So, my question is - if Ince signs this lad, would he get exactly the same reaction as if Hughes had? I'm certain he wouldn't, due to bias. Hughes signs him, it's a astute signing/good business/minor gamble, Ince signs him it's like why would we want him? As with most things on here, people will read/believe what they want to. Any snippets, no matter how unrealistic, if they can be twisted then they will be.

Look at this Friedel story now - two good 'sources' with two conflicting stories. Who should we believe? Neither, to save hassle and stress I'd suggest? All that matters ultimately on that level is the facts - Friedel's gone. End of day, we'll probably never know, and it will just fizzle into other urban myths we've created about Rovers and recent similar 'exclusives'.

I respect Ince has a massive learning curve, but I think there's a massive difference in not slackening off & setting targets for Ince, rather than keeping up relentless pressure on the guy. Anyone that thinks the link between the two regimes will be seamless, and by creating even more pressure by being prejudiced before a competitive ball is kicked will probably only lead one way. Then again, maybe that's what the pitchforkers want? Is it really in our clubs's best interests to start conjuring up criteria for the guy to achieve? I'm all for being ambitious, and having realistic expectations & ambitions, but to extend different criteria to Ince as a lot of 'fans' seem to have already done is a bit poor IMO. My main problem with the pitchforkers is I'd just rather them say I don't like and he should be sacked ASAP, not hide behind obscure justifications and finding fault for fault's sake.

So, we've GOT to sign a class player? We've GOT to get rid of McCarthy? Whilst agreeing both may be nice, I don't view them as essential to my support or how I will judge Ince. I agree, it's not all sunny at Ewood at the moment, but to increase that pressure due to unrealistic expectations or unreasonable criteria isn't conducive to the best interests of our club & is far from ideal.

I would possibly be as upset as the pitchforkers are IF we'd have appointed Allardyce, but I would like to think that in the bigger picture, influential people who are better placed to make decisions have made them, so I should respect that and at least put my prejudice to one side, certainly for a decent period to judge him in.

It could well prove counter productive, but judging the type of character Paul Ince is I think he would rise to this, taking on the challenge and come out fighting all guns blazing.Thats what I expect him to do.

Hughes earned the respect of the fans through turning things around over several seasons adding some quality to the playing squad, now Paul Ince faces that task of having to earn the respect of the Rovers fans by signing some quality players who can win football matches for him and us. It is a completly fresh start for Ince but its extremely important that he earns the respect of the Rovers faithful. He cant afford to make any major mistakes until he has earned respect at Rovers.

MaCarthy's at his optimum value at this moment in time and Rovers have just over two weeks to cash in on that value thats the way I seeit but I can fully understand Inces reluctance if he has nobody to replace him with.

Having just read the thread on other premiership happennings and the going ons at City and Arsenal I realise that Rovers should be extremely tight with the cash as the premiership bubble could well burst.

[thenodrog]

I eagerly expect all those who have been whinging for three months now to step up and praise the man. Drog, you start....

Ok.. the boy done good today. BUT he should have said that 3 weeks ago.

Ooops sorry Den... you beat me too it.

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?showto...68&st=1160#

[S15]

Excellent...

Flinty you little scamp, your turn...

!! SEVIRRA OMA EROFEB

[roversmum]

Bumped into an old chum of mine today who's a mate of one of our current players. Bottom line is the players are dissatisfied with our old fashioned training methods ( sit-ups , press- ups etc ).

Well I have a couple of things to say about that to them.

1. Have a discussion amongst yourselves about it, then send a couple of delegates to the Gaffer and ask if you can discuss it with him, putting forward your alternatives and saying why you don't like the current situation with training.

2. Remember all those nice jolly little £s floating into your bank account, shut up and get on with it.

Thank you.

[Al]

Benni McCarthy (given the right service and injury free) is a top notch striker, that would be a proven goal scorer, champions league winner and a person who HAS scored 18 premiership goals in a single season in England, how many teams outside the top 4 can boast of two players of the quality of RSC and McCarthy?

Totally disagree. He no longer has the desire. He's unfit, lazy, and is just playing for his pension. We should sell to the highest bidder before he becomes unsaleable.

[RevidgeBlue]

It's fairly obvious from Ince's interview in the LT today that for some people he can't do anything right, no matter what he says or does.

He made most of the right noises:

"No-one else will be leaving"

"People are trying to unsettle our players"

"If anything it makes me more determined"

Yet a lot of the usual critics chose to construe these comments negatively.

Unbelievable.

[American]

Roque is saying "we are trying to understand what the new manager wants" indicating Ince is no more coherent with the team.

If he was saying "the Manager wants us to play a different way and we are trying to do it", I would be feeling a lot better.

So, you're complaining about a guy who doesn't speak English as his first (or I'd guess even second) language thinking that he is saying exactly what he's thinking?

[RevidgeBlue]

Ok.. the boy done good today. BUT he should have said that 3 weeks ago.

http://www.brfcs.co.uk/mb/index.php?showto...68&st=1160#

That's a very fair point of view Gordon, but..................

1) We probably wouldn't have allowed Friedel to go unless we could have replaced him with Robinson relatively cheaply. Imo (and obviously Ince's) we've come well out on the right side of that deal.

2) Ince might have wanted to keep Bentley but decided to get rid once he started playing silly buggers preseason. It sounds like he produced more in Spurs latest friendly than he did in the second half of last season for us.

[philipl]

If nicko is picking up rumour after rumour from inside Roversthen it is no wonder all the media have Rovers on course for a disintegration and Ince is third favourite on the first manager to be sacked betting.

Yes we can recognise that certain elements in the media are only happy writing negative stuff about our club but it again signals that Ince and his pensioners are a bit out of their depth and encountering features of football that quite probably did not exist back in the 1990's.

Putting things in context, Rovers' turnover last season would have made the club very comfortably the biggest in the world when Ince disparaged Blackburn when we tried to buy him in 1998.

[Billy Castell]

I think some here actually want Ince to fail, just so they can say 'told you so' and score points off John Williams and optimistic Rovers fans. It's all very petty, but such petty vindictiveness is a rising factor in modern football.

[JAL]

If Ince signs Fowler then hes dead in the water so to speak, there is absolutely no justification whatsover for having the past it Robbie Fowler at the club in a playing capacity.

Ince can go and ###### some other club up.

[imy9]

I am taking this from Nicko's thread onto here:

Now my 5 reasons why Ince is the right man for the job.

1. He IS a successful manager. He has proven that he deserves a chance with what he has achieved at Macclesfield and MK Dons in just 2 years.

Nonsense. Name other Prem clubs that have ever recruited a managemnet team from the fourth Div? He was at Macc and MK Dons for a reason you know.

***There are many PL teams that have hired managers with no experience whatsoever. I have mentioned this before and I will say it again Southgate and Keane have virtually identical records to Ince as a player (actually Southgate won very little as a player) yet they got the "big" jobs, why did Ince take on the worst job in the league, can you name other black managers in the football league?- there would be your reason.

2. He is a proven winner, he has won trophies as a player and a manager.

Completely irrelevent. Fergie and Wenger were no great shakes as footballers. I'm sick of this 'he's a winner shyte' being trotted out every 5 minutes. Yesterday has gone.

***Ummm last year Ince won TWO trophies as a MANAGER that makes him a winner, that is within two years of being a manager.

3. He wants to play attractive football, something which all of his sides play and something we did not see a lot of under Hughes!

I thought we saw plenty. What we did see was plenty of points.

***"Saw plenty" ok can you name the 19 games from last year where we played attractive football (thats only half the games)? The dire dross being served out was some of the worst I can recall for a number of years, the two games vs Derby were proof of that.

4. He has shown that he can make tough decisions, like not selling Brad until Robinson signed and not purchasing players being thrown at him because he like Hughes thinks of Rovers money as his money.

Oh ffs! How on earth can you say that?

***The above has been proven, Bentley refused to do sit ups so he sold him, thats making tough decisions. He has also stated that no other player will be leaving- if this happens then that further supports what I have said.

5. Last but not least JW hired him for the job. He has made two excellent appointments in Souness and Hughes for Blackburn Rovers and there is no reason why Ince should be any different.

I'll concede on that one BUT as I've pointed out to Nicko... everybody makes mistakes sometimes.

***At least give Ince the chance to make a mistake, the season has not even started yet FFS!!!

[JAL]

I am taking this from Nicko's thread onto here:

Now my 5 reasons why Ince is the right man for the job.

1. He IS a successful manager. He has proven that he deserves a chance with what he has achieved at Macclesfield and MK Dons in just 2 years.

Nonsense. Name other Prem clubs that have ever recruited a managemnet team from the fourth Div? He was at Macc and MK Dons for a reason you know.

***There are many PL teams that have hired managers with no experience whatsoever. I have mentioned this before and I will say it again Southgate and Keane have virtually identical records to Ince as a player (actually Southgate won very little as a player) yet they got the "big" jobs, why did Ince take on the worst job in the league, can you name other black managers in the football league?- there would be your reason.

2. He is a proven winner, he has won trophies as a player and a manager.

Completely irrelevent. Fergie and Wenger were no great shakes as footballers. I'm sick of this 'he's a winner shyte' being trotted out every 5 minutes. Yesterday has gone.

***Ummm last year Ince won TWO trophies as a MANAGER that makes him a winner, that is within two years of being a manager.

3. He wants to play attractive football, something which all of his sides play and something we did not see a lot of under Hughes!

I thought we saw plenty. What we did see was plenty of points.

***"Saw plenty" ok can you name the 19 games from last year where we played attractive football (thats only half the games)? The dire dross being served out was some of the worst I can recall for a number of years, the two games vs Derby were proof of that.

4. He has shown that he can make tough decisions, like not selling Brad until Robinson signed and not purchasing players being thrown at him because he like Hughes thinks of Rovers money as his money.

Oh ffs! How on earth can you say that?

***The above has been proven, Bentley refused to do sit ups so he sold him, thats making tough decisions. He has also stated that no other player will be leaving- if this happens then that further supports what I have said.

5. Last but not least JW hired him for the job. He has made two excellent appointments in Souness and Hughes for Blackburn Rovers and there is no reason why Ince should be any different.

I'll concede on that one BUT as I've pointed out to Nicko... everybody makes mistakes sometimes.

***At least give Ince the chance to make a mistake, the season has not even started yet FFS!!!

Dont talk shyte !

[BPF]

I am taking this from Nicko's thread onto here:

Now my 5 reasons why Ince is the right man for the job.

1. He IS a successful manager. He has proven that he deserves a chance with what he has achieved at Macclesfield and MK Dons in just 2 years.

Nonsense. Name other Prem clubs that have ever recruited a managemnet team from the fourth Div? He was at Macc and MK Dons for a reason you know.

***There are many PL teams that have hired managers with no experience whatsoever. I have mentioned this before and I will say it again Southgate and Keane have virtually identical records to Ince as a player (actually Southgate won very little as a player) yet they got the "big" jobs, why did Ince take on the worst job in the league, can you name other black managers in the football league?- there would be your reason.

2. He is a proven winner, he has won trophies as a player and a manager.

Completely irrelevent. Fergie and Wenger were no great shakes as footballers. I'm sick of this 'he's a winner shyte' being trotted out every 5 minutes. Yesterday has gone.

***Ummm last year Ince won TWO trophies as a MANAGER that makes him a winner, that is within two years of being a manager.

3. He wants to play attractive football, something which all of his sides play and something we did not see a lot of under Hughes!

I thought we saw plenty. What we did see was plenty of points.

***"Saw plenty" ok can you name the 19 games from last year where we played attractive football (thats only half the games)? The dire dross being served out was some of the worst I can recall for a number of years, the two games vs Derby were proof of that.

4. He has shown that he can make tough decisions, like not selling Brad until Robinson signed and not purchasing players being thrown at him because he like Hughes thinks of Rovers money as his money.

Oh ffs! How on earth can you say that?

***The above has been proven, Bentley refused to do sit ups so he sold him, thats making tough decisions. He has also stated that no other player will be leaving- if this happens then that further supports what I have said.

5. Last but not least JW hired him for the job. He has made two excellent appointments in Souness and Hughes for Blackburn Rovers and there is no reason why Ince should be any different.

I'll concede on that one BUT as I've pointed out to Nicko... everybody makes mistakes sometimes.

***At least give Ince the chance to make a mistake, the season has not even started yet FFS!!!

Well said.

[tonyoz]

Dont talk shyte !

You can't beat constructive criticism!

[imy9]

Brilliant criticisms, analysed and explained!!

[BPF]

I think this is basically going to be a re-hash of what I posted earlier but:

I have never personally liked Ince. Though I have never personally met him either. But growing up in a time during a fierce rivarly between Manure and Rovers was always going to make it potentially difficult for me to hold a vast admiration for him.

During the 'Who are we going to get after Hughes' situation, so many names came up. Every name inspired debate on this board. I think whoever John Williams picked was always going to create some sort of 'Did we get the right guy?' discussion because Hughes did so well.

There is one unavoidable fact in all this. Paul Ince is the Blackburn Rovers manager. He has yet to play one game of competitive football. If we fire him now, we are nothing more than a joke. I have no doubt that a 2 - 0 defeat to Everton on Saturday would result in a 'Ince Out!' thread. Being negative will achieve nothing. Being at the games showing the team that the fans support them and there management can do nothing but motivate them so surely standing there booing would have the opposite effect.

Ince has not proved himself in the Premiership, but he hasn't shown he can't do it either. There is no changing that he is manager so until the day comes when he proves he can't manage at this level, shut up.

[gazsimm]

If Ince signs Fowler then hes dead in the water so to speak, there is absolutely no justification whatsover for having the past it Robbie Fowler at the club in a playing capacity.

Ince can go and ###### some other club up.

did you fall out of the wrong side of the bed this morning? If Ince decides to sign Fowler, it will give better depth to the squad overall, (i would rather a proven goal scorer in the prem then have Rigters (Mark Hughes signing by the way) in the squad).

He will also pass on great experience to the younger forwards we have at the club, just like what Matty Derbyshire was saying last week.

[tonyoz]

imy9 I agree with most of your post.

I, like many on here, dream of challenging the top clubs but we are never going to match them financially. But I reckon that there are some managers capable of competing even though they have to work on a shoestring.

Every time we get a new manager, there is always that hope that the new guy will have that indefinable "Cloughie" factor. Of course it's harder now....but maybe not impossible?

For a while I thought Hughes was going to take us there. He did a fantastic job turning us around but ultimately he admitted defeat and looked for pastures new.

So who should we go for now? Someone who is relatively safe - like BFS or McLaren? They would probably keep us up but at what price? Some continental superstar ex-player with a modest managerial record?

Or how about the brightest new talent on the English scene? Some guy who has made a success of everything he has done in football? Someone who has already motivated two teams to success?

Paul Ince is a gamble because it is a big step up - of course it is. But what if.........?

Bloody hell, that would be something huh?

[imy9]

here, here