[Archived] Do You Approve Of The New Manager?

[jim mk2]

I don't think we are any worse off than we otherwise would have been.

Very charitable considering we have lost 2 of our best players and could lose 2 more.

[RevidgeBlue]

Very charitable considering we have lost 2 of our best players and could lose 2 more.

No-one else is leaving jim.

Being a man of the press I'd have thought you picked up on what the manager said in the LT yesterday.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Very charitable considering we have lost 2 of our best players and could lose 2 more.

Losing Bellamy was a bigger blow at the time - the entire team was built around him.

We would have gone downhill under Hughes this season, as indeed we did for the 2nd half of last season

[Veevs]

Well I kind of banned myself from posting as I felt I was being too negative, I am a Blackburn fan and should try not to panic so much.

But like many I am uneasy, and as I was asked directly I will answer.

In my opinion as a fan of blackburn and avid footy nut, I feel the biggest issue to hand is not the ability of Ince as a manager but his experience and the advise he is receiving at this level.

As a manager from division 2 who has just a couple of years experience in management at much lower levels I feel Ince is scared of making decisions because:

1 - He does not have experience of signing players at this level

2 - He does not have the experience dealing with agents at this level

3 - He does not know the current players at this level both UK and abroad

4 - He has never signed a player for more than 3m (I am including Robinson here because prior to that I think he has not even hit 6 figure sums)

5 - He does not know the value of players at this level in the game

6 - He does not have the network of contacts (agents, managers, club contacts etc) at this level in the game who he trusts (as an international manager Hughes would of had this network)

7 - He does not yet trust his scouting network, and has never experienced scouting at this level

8 - he does not want to make a mistake with the funds he has, maybe because this is his one shot at greatness and if you fall at the first hurdle you end up like Barnes or Robson

The issue that many of us are having is just down to transfers (we can't judge him on the football or results as a ball has not been kicked), we know he has identified the right positions to improve upon but we have not seen any fixes (bar right back, which long term is only a loan) he has not replaced Bentley and he knows we need a box to box or Defensive midfielder but in 51 days with just 2 left to the start neither of these positions have been filled (and he might of hoped to keep Bentley but I dont think anyone else believed we could keep him).

To me when you give a manager a large transfer budget there are two extremes "Splash the cash" or "Cautious signings" and of course you are after something in the middle, but in my opinion due to his lack of experience at this level he is too cautious and that may get us into deep trouble. Caution is good to a level but sometimes you need to take a gamble, Robinson is a slight gamble but was the obvious replacement as for the rest.. well everyone who is coming in is a loan signing or trialist, he is even offering Loans to established internationals with good reputations. Does that make him Naive, daft or just plain scared of his first big signing being a flop?

Due to our signings (or should I say lack of) we are starting the new season with an awful lot resting on the shoulders of a 22 year old lad, who was playing at an 8500 seater stadium in one of the poorest quality leagues in South America and has never worked abroad in his life. And a keeper who has been on a real downer confidence wise for most of a season, he even lost his keeping coach within a few weeks of arriving.. thats just bad luck and I hope for his sake and ours it changes.

It is clear at this stage that no one knows what to expect from Ince, newspaper previews of the season have us anywhere from 7th through to 18th, betting companies have decreased the odds on us doing badly and made Ince 2nd or 3rd favourite for the sack, fans are 50:50 against Ince (not many now fall into the straight Ince fan category, they are heading into the give him a chance category), season ticket sales have dropped, fans of other clubs are not exactly rating us this season.. the list goes on and it needs addressing.

We really needed at least one good well known signing this pre-season, as we have lost two of our best players, and its not happened and is looking unlikely to happen, even if we get someone in tomorrow they are not going to have the time to settle into the area/team/formation/tactics prior to the match on Sat.

To be fair Ince has proven he can do miracles with limited resources in dire situations (Macclesfield) and he can turn a team into a regular kick arse team in division 2 (please note he had an awful start at MK dons.. but after the first 10 games they turned it around and ended champions), his tactics will be entertaining to watch but he is new at this level and will need to gain confidence in his backroom staff and scounting network as well as build up that all to valuable knowledge and contact list.

But the problem is once the season has started he cant turn back the clock once the transfer window is closed, and we dont have the backup in place, a couple of injuries and we will be in dire straights.

I do feel that there are quite a few players that could fall into our price range, if the figures are right we have 15-20million and two positions to fill so even if we leave half in reserve for the next transfer window we will still have plenty to fix at least one of the two midfield vacanies with a very high standard player.

I hope this is not seen as too pessimistic, I dont know what tricks Ince will pull out of the hat, I am just scared of next season..

Also some of our main competitors (e.g. Villa and Spuds) from last season have spent very well this summer and some others may be getting closer to us than we like.. so we are very unlikely at this rate to improve on last season no matter how entertaining we play.

Still on the bright side, Everton, WHU, Man City and co all seem to be having just as bad a pre-season in terms of transfers as us (although they have not exactly lost their best players yet), and we still have a better squad than most of the bottom half.

In regards to your questions dinglebaiter see below..

Okay, you're John Williams, you've got the Black BMW and all the decisions fall on your shoulders ........

Five things you will do, to achieve what aim? A little late with 2 days left

1- I would hire a couple of former managers at this level as consultants/advisors to assist Ince in valueing players and finding the right targets (Laudrup, Fat Sam, Dalglish, Souness.. you know the kind I mean..)

2- I would openly announce my backing for the manager by explain the lack of new signings and our inability to fill the positions remaining as caution on the part of Ince to appease us fans

3- I would make sure that the fans knew that the money would still be available in January, again to appease the fans

4- I would see that Ince ends the Andrews and Fowler situations one way or another

5- I would get someone independant in to review the club setup, from training to signings

Then (separate to previous answers) what five things would you like to see happen (from the club, Ince, team etc.) to bring you back onside, or are you over the edge already like a lemming?

1- Sort out the fowler/Andrew's/Warnock/RSC situations once and for all

2- I would like to see more of Carlos and the new guys, maybe a proper unveiling rather than straight into action

3- I would like to clearly hear what positions we are looking to fill and why (A little hughes bashing would probably be thrown in here), what we are doing to acheive this and a little of Inces plans

4- I would like to hear Ince has some experienced advice

5- I would like to see a little (up to 50%) of our cash spent on an established player, Pennant, Joachim, Lennon, Larsson would all be improvements on the right

Be interesting to see your answers, I take your points in reply but it's always easier to say what's not been done. Bear in mind it does seem there's a double nadger-kick going on with a lot of the posts on here. That is, folk are saying Ince should buy players to show there is money to spend, but then the same folks will slag them players if they're no good. It's unrealistic to expect Ince to come in and splash the cash & then hold him over a barrel with both outcomes facing some element of slagging.

I'd like nothing better than him to fire off Fowler, sign two players - which I still think will happen - and if needs be, sell Benedict & the Axe to do a Hughes 'flip' and use the revenue to get better, more motivated players that offer more value (ideally ones that will be increasing, rather than deprecating, assets). However, that's what I'd like, not what I won't stamp my feet and get the lynch mob ready if all/some of them aren't done.

[RevidgeBlue]

I do feel that there are quite a few players that could fall into our price range,

You would they be then?

Perhaps you could share with us on here, and then forward to Paul Ince as he's obviously missed them?

[Silencio]

You would they be then?

Perhaps you could share with us on here, and then forward to Paul Ince as he's obviously missed them?

He shouldn't have missed out one of them because he had him on trial...

Come on RB, the guy wants to sign Fowler FFS, please tell me one positive angles that can be put on? It's scamming the club and scamming the fans...

[RevidgeBlue]

He shouldn't have missed out one of them because he had him on trial...

Come on RB, the guy wants to sign Fowler FFS, please tell me one positive angles that can be put on? It's scamming the club and scamming the fans...

Hoorah! He's back!

Whilst I really shouldn't rise to the bait, here goes:

You might be right on the first one, only time will tell. Have you ever seen him train/play yourself?

Whilst I'm not in favour of signing Fowler, I honestly can't see how taking him on trial to see if he can still hack it is "scamming" anyone.

[LeChuck]

I honestly can't see how taking him on trial to see if he can still hack it is "scamming" anyone.

Because he's doing another old mate a favour. It's obvious to everyone that Fowler hasn't been fit (and I don't just mean physically) for Premiership football for about five years, but even more so in the last twelve months. We've made ourselves a figure of ridicule to other Premiership sides and we've wasted valuable pre-season time that should have been spent gelling the team together on someone who will never, ever offer us anything.

[Silencio]

Hoorah! He's back!

Whilst I really shouldn't rise to the bait, here goes:

You might be right on the first one, only time will tell. Have you ever seen him train/play yourself?

Whilst I'm not in favour of signing Fowler, I honestly can't see how taking him on trial to see if he can still hack it is "scamming" anyone.

Annan was good in the African Nations and in todays market has got to be worth 2 million. Especially if thats what MK Dons want for Ince's other mate.

Re Fowler: Everyone knows he can't hack it, he's here on trial because Ince is mates with him. Ince trying to soften us up all the time by saying he is doing well is a scam. You and I both know he's nowhere near good enough. I imagine the other players think it's a joke. It is...

[RevidgeBlue]

we've wasted valuable pre-season time that should have been spent gelling the team together on someone who will never, ever offer us anything.

Not much time though, all the squad members have been rotated freely pre-season.

Was it worth a look? In my view - yes.

Having had a look, should we offer him a deal? In my view, not on the basis of what we've seen. But then again, we don't know what help behind the scenes. I think he knows a bit more about scoring in top flight footy in England than RSC and Benni, albeit he isn't at their level at the moment.

[Veevs]

You would they be then?

Perhaps you could share with us on here, and then forward to Paul Ince as he's obviously missed them?

For available RW players, there seem to be a few around...

Larsson, Kieghly, Pennant, Joaqiun and Lennon would all be better options than Emerton in my opinion and seemingly available... would you disagree?

Again provided the figures are correct

We dont have a defensive midfield or box to box player.. unless you classify the Axe, Dunn or Reid as decent in those positions? Personally I am not sure what is out there for that position but Annan was seemingly a decent start or how about Toulalan, Huddleston (probably over expensive), shalrie joseph is supposed to be alright but I know little about him, Torosidis can also play DF mid... so yeah I know nothing of available players in that position..

[leftfooter]

Sympathetic portrayal of Knox and Ince in the Indo:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/footbal...ple-894178.html

"...By picking Archie Knox as his No 2, the new Blackburn Rovers manager Paul Ince opted for someone very different from himself. Ian Herbert explains why the partnership might just work..."

People should remember that, under Hughes, we flirted with the relegation places for a large part of the season before last. I remember it taking the shine of the UEFA Cup run. It's amazing how quickly that has been forgotten.

As the eve of battle approaches, can we just calm down a little; quit with the whining and just get behind the team and the manager?

[DingleBaiter]

Veevs - good response, thanks for taking the time & thought to give a balanced view.

Firstly, we share a view that one of the biggest problems is perception. We've three factors I see that work against this.

1. We tend to keep things 'in house' & don't let the public or media know what's going on, hence the former guess (or rely on single sources of biased, prejudiced, spin/guesswork/almost-fact on boards like this) whilst the second bully & spite us.
2. We've a manager in place that at best folk clearly didn't want, at worst are downright prejudiced to. IMO Allardyce would have been a far more unpopular choice; we'd probably be seeing even more negative tripe than at present so that's a small bonus.
3. We've a set of fans with a propensity to enjoying being negative, moaning or apocalyptic.

Some of your comments - with respect - are stating the obvious, but at least they lay out the facts, rather than spin to suit an argument.

Here are my (somewhat obvious) interpretations.

1. Ince was never going to be a popular choice, and there would always be a degree of people getting on his back whatever. Then again, we could have signed Mourinho or any star manager (I wish) but even he would have had his detractors, unavoidable.
2. People will always see what they want to see to suit their judgement; not many will be man enough to admit their failings subsequently.
3. I'm dumbfounded at people blaming the board, JW and others, despite their proven track record & high esteem they are held in by their peers. IMO if anyone can bring Ince through this, it's them - and they knew that when they appointed him.
4. Some of your suggestions are wise, but for things to be judged objectively both sides/outcomes need to be considered. There's a line between appointing support staff & undermining someone. At this point in time, appointing anyone like you suggest would be contrary to the objective & provide valuable ammunition to any detractors. The Ince situation as is shows parallels with Gordon Brown in some ways, don't you think?
5. The fact Ince hasn't put an end to certain transfer talks suggests one of two things; things aren't at a stage to be concluded or naivety in the spin/PR dept.
6. Much of this will upset the kids on here who want to blow all their spending money for the sake of it, that's not the way the club do things, especially in the current climate. Bear in mind the current economic environment (in football & the wider world), Rovers are one of the few clubs with pure liquidity. Add to that keeping the club set for potential takeover, the fact Hughes sometimes waited patiently for his transfers to come off & also Ince has a steep learning curve. If Ince wishes to wait for things to happen, I see that as a positive - consideration over recklessness any day, it shows long-sightedness. MAYBE he is being restricted by JW for his own good, the temptation is clearly there to spend the money simply cos it's there, as other managers have done. Clearly Hughes has laid some very good habits into the way things are done, and JW wants to build on this. My view is perhaps there is a bit of 'hand holding' going on, but it will only serve us better in the long run - buying players primarily for the sake of it is ABSOLUTELY the wrong way to go about this. Firstly, it's a mock/pat gesture clearly favoured by lesser club we've scorned in the past. Secondly, it's a double-edged sword that's sharper on the other side; if the players flop Ince faces far more negativity than he would in not buying them.
7. Here's the news - Ince will make mistakes. Ince's learning curve will be steep, but hopefully given time will decrease. Rovers will clearly have to go backwards to go forwards in the long run. I agree that ANY deal with Fowler is a negative, but only based on what I've seen pre-season and Ince taking what I consider too long to make the same decision I have. However, there are faults with my logic here - I'm not a manager nor know the game, I only know what I think. I'm sure ALL - and more - of our concerns on this (and other stuff) is known by JW as he does have to consider all this, and offset that against interfering.
8. There IS an almost evangelical following of certain people on here; it's a bit like the Branch Davidians at times - and look what happened to them? David Koresh, Idi Amin, Hitler, Mugabe, Pol Pot - and their followers - may have been proved somewhat extreme over the fullness of time but two things were common to all of them - charisma, and a willingness to believe/follow. In their eyes, they were doing nothing wrong, and it's simplistic for the wider world to wonder why people fell for them like they did - but the thing is, they did. Look at the Scientologists today, some folk may think they're crackers, extreme & make for good TV when they flip, but to them, it's us that are the loons. But hey, we live in a free society - generally - and it adds to the 'rich tapestry of life' I guess, and IMO although it's interesting to hear all this anti-Ince stuff, it's more valuable to be reasonable, patient & considered whilst retaining clarity of thought and a balanced objectivity - which is why I appreciate your sound answers.

There's another MASSIVE factor to consider here that needs to be realised. Of all the people I know through going the game, whose judgement I would respect whilst not always agreeing with, are also the people with the least anti-Ince feeling. This is isn't because they're blinkered sheep; it's simply because they're not privy to all this (often counter productive) 'information' posted on here. Coming on here and trawling through the threads, reading/responding, picking up the vibes, the spin, the bullcrud often detracts from the important things - facts. I'm a big believer in minimization in that a lot of negativity, stress, hassle and lack of progress can be avoided simply by clarity of thought, managing expectations and avoidance of the things that upset us or serve no purpose.

As an analogy, it's like going visiting my Mum's to catch up on what's happening in the family, the neighbourhood and life in general. I know that I can sit down, she'll start talking and I can go upstairs to my old room, sleep for a few hours and do other stuff, then come down in the morning, she'll still be wittering on - without realising I hadn't been there - but it's only when I'm leaving she tells me my favourite granny's popped her clogs.

[tonyoz]

Here is a brilliant post from Exiled in Toronto which I copied from Nicko's thread.

It puts it all into perspective I think!

So when I left to go on holiday 2 weeks ago, the hot news was as follows:

- Warnock about to join Newcastle

- Fowler signing imminent

- Andrews to be unvieled any day now

- Roque off to City

I return to find that:

- Warnock about to join Newcastle

- Fowler signing imminent

- Andrews to be unvieled any day now

- Roque off to City

and a further 1000 pages of neurotic drivel have been posted, about what I ask myself?

[CAPT KAYOS]

As an analogy, it's like going to my Mum's to catch up on what's happening in the family, the neighbourhood and life in general. I know that I can sit down, she'll start talking and I can go upstairs to my old room, sleep for a few hours and do other stuff, then come down in the morning, she's still be wittering on - without realising I hadn't been there - but it's only when I leaving she tells me my granny's popped her clogs.

Absolutely fantastic DB - longer than I was trying to portray but superbly summarised.

The Ince situation as is shows parallels with Gordon Brown in some ways, don't you think?

Just be careful though as I thought you had mutated here into Theno - (he has posted similar in response to one of my threads)

Come on folks the season begins on Saturday and we all know that it doesn't end then - season before we got thumped at Portsmouth , last season we won at Boro

Nobody knows what is going to happen - lets just ride the wave and land on the beach before we decide which ship to catch next - we are not shipwrecked, not saying we may not have sprung a leak but I know for certain we have got big buckets.

Nerves or no nerves I think this is going to be one heck of a season one way or another.

[Parsonblue]

No-one else is leaving jim.

Being a man of the press I'd have thought you picked up on what the manager said in the LT yesterday.

The same manager who told us he would keep Brad and Bents and had no intention of signing Robinson. The same manager who has told us how well Fowler is doing in the pre-season?

[Parsonblue]

Hoorah! He's back!

Whilst I really shouldn't rise to the bait, here goes:

You might be right on the first one, only time will tell. Have you ever seen him train/play yourself?

Whilst I'm not in favour of signing Fowler, I honestly can't see how taking him on trial to see if he can still hack it is "scamming" anyone.

The trouble is that Fowler has shown in pre-season games that he can't hack it and every interview Ince gives to the LT is he full of praise for his mate and telling us what a great addition he will be to the squad. At the same time younger players come and go on trial and are discarded after a couple of days. Couldn't be favouritism could it?

[imy9]

Ince has played with Fowler, seen him play for a number of years. The players in trial have been viewed from what a week? Quite clearly they were not suited to our needs.

[Parsonblue]

Ince has played with Fowler, seen him play for a number of years. The players in trial have been viewed from what a week? Quite clearly they were not suited to our needs.

I have absolutely no doubt that the players who came on trial weren't what the manager wanted and if that was the case he was quite right to send them on their way. My point was that Fowler, certainly in the three games I've seen him play, is also not what we need. I haven't met a supporter yet who has watched Fowler who thinks he could do a job in the first team. If Ince wants to employ him as a coach that is a different matter but to try to convince fans that Fowler could hack it in the Premier League is simply not going to do him any favours.

[incecticide]

I have absolutely no doubt that the players who came on trial weren't what the manager wanted and if that was the case he was quite right to send them on their way. My point was that Fowler, certainly in the three games I've seen him play, is also not what we need. I haven't met a supporter yet who has watched Fowler who thinks he could do a job in the first team. If Ince wants to employ him as a coach that is a different matter but to try to convince fans that Fowler could hack it in the Premier League is simply not going to do him any favours.

I think if we have an injury crisis I'd rather have Fowler than nobody. I seriously doubt anyone actually thinks he'd be brought in to be anything like first choice...?!

As long as the deal is a Jeffers-type pay-as-you-play, it won't hurt us financially to have him warming the bench, which will be larger now that we have seven subs this season.

[T4E]

• Don't sign over the hill 33 year old strikers that are complete useless.

  We haven't

  Time will tell

• Don't sign 4th division plodders that have no place in the Premier League.

  We haven't

  Time will tell

• Don't give someone a job just because they're your mate.

  We won't

  Mathias, Winterburn et al. None of these no marks have any place near a Premier League team. Even Fowler - there is not another Premier League team that would have even given him a trial. If there was, he wouldn't have been at Cardiff.

• Don't treat the players like kids.

  We don't

  "You've got your hands in your pockets. Drop and give me twenty"

• Don't deny you want to sign someone, then sign them.

  We didn't

  http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_3819733,00.html

  Read the last 4 paragraphs.

• Don't accept bids for our best players.

  Those two were out of our control.

  Nonsense. Do you think Brad would have gone on strike? Again, read the above article.

• Don't invite trialists in, tell them they're going to sign, have them fly half way across the World, then sack them off.

  I'll give you that one

  Good on ya

• Go after some decent players, and show the fans you have some ambition.

  I'm sure we are doing

  There's no evidence to suggest this is happening. There's plenty suggesting that it isn't.

[Billy Castell]

Problem is that all the players we are linked with are crap, and stories about current players are almost all bad. Grella, Fowler and so on don't exactly fill us with confidence. However, it is sometimes hard to see what is a true story and what is just 'the media' wanting to put the boot into dirty Blackburn who dared touch the big four's players. I don't know if it is bad PR, bad transfer targets or some combination of the two, but there is too much uncertainty and negativity floating around the usual pre-season issues.

[Mr Creosote]

In which way is Winterburn a "nomark" who "shouldn't have a place near a Premiership club"? Also he is not a mate of Paul Ince's - never played at the same clubs and have both said that they are nothing more than professional aquaintances.

I take it you are another with an impeccable source re the "give me 20" stuff"? Also, I take it that Ince isn't allowed to change his mind on a player? I suppose he should sign him whether he rates him or not seeing as he brought them over.

Quoting Skysports isn't good for anybody's credibility but the link you posted demonstrated Ince taking a stance something even Nicko said that he was right to do.

As you said time will tell on players brought in, allowed to leave, trialists signed but it seems that you dont want to give Ince time judging by your posts. Sadly, you are far from being alone.

[broadsword]

Winterburn has no place near a Premier League team? Could I just ask why, he's being used as a part-time consultant.

I'm not so sure you should be calling people who have long-standing experience in the game "no-marks".

And as for giving players punishments for folding their arms, who's not to say other teams do that? I don't see it as treating players like kids. do you want them slouching around on the training ground?

Give the man a chance. As you say: "Time will tell". I don't think he came here to be a loser.

He seems to have enough enemies in the press without teh club's own fans sticking teh boot in too.

[jw_]

I realise that not everybody (including myself)was happy with Paul Ince being made manager but even a blind man can see that he has been criticised from many quarters by people who just do not have the full facts.Let's face it the only ones who really know what's going on are John Williams and Paul Ince, they have all the facts and figures by which to make their decisions.

Like it or not Paul Ince is now a Rover and going by his career he will at the very least give it all he's got, anyone who's seen him play would agree to that.If he fails as a manager it won't be through trying but now somehow I have the strong feeling that he will succeed.

In the last couple of weeks there have been reports in the press that he's under pressure already and while that's mostly just "paper talk" he may just need some support right now to ease that pressure.

Remember he's one of us now and we are the ones to give him that help by stopping the endless bitching about his appointment and get behind him.Remember too that John Williams appointed him and he has a proven record of doing the right thing for Rovers.

I don't post much but I'm an old fan who's a bit tired of seeing criticism laid unfairly, judge him after 10 games because by then you will have a better idea.

Just my thoughts.