[Archived] Bad News Britain

[den]

Stupid and wrong.

Renting ain't dead money when your house is decreasing in value, your mortgage payments and going up and you're stuck in negative equity . Ask anyone who suffered in the property recession of the 1970s or between 1989 and 1997. Like the stockmarket timing is the key and now is not the time to buy a house.

Stick to selling spoons and spouting rightwing drivel Enoch, something you know about.

OK a request:

Not just to you Jim and Blue Phil, - but everyone:- can we at least TRY to cut out the personal insults and winding other posters up, it really is tedious and doesn't do the site any good at all. It is YOUR site, so help keep the standards up please.

[jim mk2]

perhaps you can give cost comparison of renting or buying the same house over say a 20 year period to see which is cheaper, remembering that at the end of the period you have an asset to your name in one case, also put an allowance in for some negative equity if it makes you feel better!

Depends whether you bought the property either at the top or bottom of the cycle - timing is paramount.

If you wanted to make real money over 20 years ignore property altogther and invest in the stockmarket which has beaten property hands down over almost all 5-year plus time periods.

Does that make you feel better ?

[yoda]

Depends whether you bought the property either at the top or bottom of the cycle - timing is paramount.

If you wanted to make real money over 20 years ignore property altogther and invest in the stockmarket which has beaten property hands down over almost all 5-year plus time periods.

Does that make you feel better ?

I feel good already, I have bought and paid for my 2 houses so have 2 assets that over a period of time will go up in value.

We were not talking about making real money, we were talkng about people getting on the property ladder and wether it was worth it, all indicators say that it is, when I get time I will do the comparison for you seeing as you gave an answer for a different question.

[jim mk2]

I feel good already, I have bought and paid for my 2 houses so have 2 assets that over a period of time will go up in value.

We were not talking about making real money, we were talkng about people getting on the property ladder and wether it was worth it, all indicators say that it is, when I get time I will do the comparison for you seeing as you gave an answer for a different question.

I'm glad you feel good because I wouldn't feel good owning two "assets" that were going down in value every day and are likely to go down in value by a significant amount for the forseeable future.

The US is in the middle of the worst housing recession since the 1930s slump, Britain's housing slide has only just begun and is likely to be even worse than the US because British homes have risen more in value and British homeowners are more over-borrowed.

"Getting on the property ladder" for the sake of it doesn't make sense. I would advise anyone at the present time to rent and wait for prices to fall to 1997 levels when the boom began.

But if you're happy losing money then it's up to you.

[yoda]

I'm glad you feel good because I wouldn't feel good owning two "assets" that were going down in value every day and are likely to go down in value by a significant amount for the forseeable future.

The US is in the middle of the worst housing recession since the 1930s slump, Britain's housing slide has only just begun and is likely to be even worse than the US because British homes have risen more in value and British homeowners are more over-borrowed.

"Getting on the property ladder" for the sake of it doesn't make sense. I would advise anyone at the present time to rent and wait for prices to fall to 1997 levels when the boom began.

But if you're happy losing money then it's up to you.

They are both worth significantly more now than when I bought them, by a factor of 3 almost, so you see I am not losing money, no rent to pay, no mortgage to pay.

You are avoiding doing the sums because you will not like the answer!

ps both my properties are in countries that do not have a credit problem and when did rents ever decrease in a property slump?

[thenodrog]

The US is in the middle of the worst housing recessiion since the 1930s slump, Britain's housing slide has only just begun and is likely to be even worse than the US because British homes have risen more in value and British homeowners are more over-borrowed.

"Getting on the property ladder" for the sake of it doesn't make sense. I would advise anyone at the present time to rent and wait for prices to fall to 1997 levels when the current boom began.

But if you're happy losing money then it's up to you.

Jim don't be too smug because at the moment all property owners ARE losing money in the form of the valuation of their property whether its paid for or not. And happily for most on here that does include you.

BUT I do take your point. Whilst the bottom is not in sight it prob makes most sense to simply rent a static caravan ..... until we see the unwelcome but unavoidable phenomenon of white trailer trash proliferating all over our green and pleasant land.

[jim mk2]

They are both worth significantly more now than when I bought them, by a factor of 3 almost, so you see I am not losing money, no rent to pay, no mortgage to pay.

You are avoiding doing the sums because you will not like the answer!

And you're sticking your head in the sand avoiding the problem of your "assets" plummeting in value !

Good luck with CGT on selling your second property and with maintance costs of two "assets" btw.

[yoda]

And you're sticking your head in the sand avoiding the problem of your "assets" plummeting in value !

Good luck with CGT on selling your second property and with maintance costs of two "assets" btw.

You really are clueless,

my second property is in a country where CGT does not apply and I don't wish to sell the 1st

Don't quote maintenance costs without doing the sums, your argument is going nowhere without the comparison to back it up,

when in a hole, throw the spade away

[jim mk2]

Jim don't be too smug because at the moment all property owners ARE losing money in the form of the valuation of their property whether its paid for or not. And happily for most on here that does include you.

And happily for everyone else on here homeowners with stately piles featuring 4 toilets (at the last count) such as your good self are suffering most !

I can afford to be smug because I sold up last year, my cash is earning 7 per cent interest offshore thank you very much and my mining stocks are up 25 per cent this year and 340 per cent over the last five.

Stick to your bricks and mortar eh

[jim mk2]

You really are clueless,

my second property is in a country where CGT does not apply and I don't wish to sell the 1st

Don't quote maintenance costs without doing the sums, your argument is going nowhere without the comparison to back it up,

when in a hole, throw the spade away

Nah mate, you're clueless because you're avoiding the problem of your money going down the drain.

In the meantime grab your spade and start digging for your 3rd "asset".

[yoda]

Nah mate, you're clueless because you're avoiding the problem of your money going down the drain.

In the meantime grab your spade and start digging for your 3rd "asset".

It is not going down, both properties are still going up in value, so no problem, they will never be worth less than I paid for them, still no mortgage or rent to pay.

Actually Its the 4th asset that is being planned next (2nd business)

[thenodrog]

You really are clueless,

my second property is in a country where CGT does not apply and I don't wish to sell the 1st

I was just going to point that out to him. Another who needs to practice lateral thinking a little.

[jim mk2]

when did rents ever decrease in a property slump?

http://www.myfinances.co.uk/news/mortgages...036;1226116.htm

Thank you Kevin McCloud

[jim mk2]

. Another who needs to practice lateral thinking a little.

Do you do most of your "thinking" on the loo Gord ??

[yoda]

http://www.myfinances.co.uk/news/mortgages...036;1226116.htm

Thank you Kevin McCloud

did you read it properly jim?

[thenodrog]

I can afford to be smug because I sold up last year, my cash is earning 7 per cent interest offshore thank you very much and my mining stocks are up 25 per cent this year and 340 per cent over the last five.

Stick to your bricks and mortar eh

I will thanks Jim. You in turn can stick to your nursing home room with a carpet that invariably smells of urine and dreaming of affording fine oak panelling and solid brass handles on your next residence.

[den]

I will refer you all to this post, one more time:

OK a request:

Not just to you Jim and Blue Phil, - but everyone:- can we at least TRY to cut out the personal insults and winding other posters up, it really is tedious and doesn't do the site any good at all. It is YOUR site, so help keep the standards up please.

[thenodrog]

Do you do most of your "thinking" on the loo Gord ??

Tee Hee! Nothing like a bit of lavatorial humour to suit some people is there?

[blue phil]

phil would you please not twist my words. I long ago gave up responding to you because of the manner in which you chose to portray me and I'd appreciate it if you would cease.

I'm happy to debate this but I'm not happy if you continue to suggest the observations are simply selfish. I've been consistent in my views on traffic volumes and only observe fuel prices appear to be showing us one way of addressing the issue.

This seems to be your standard reply these days , Paul , if I dare to criticise your views on the political situation - in particular your pro Labour views . Dare I suggest that if you can't stand alternative opinions you don't air your own ?

I'll quote the post of yours that I did earlier .....

"... Oil is going up, food is going up. Live with it, drink a bit less, give up something. There's a lot less traffic on the road so I have the feeling oil prices and road charging might be a real solution to our congestion problems.

Life in modern Britain is good..............stop friggin moaning and get on with it. ...."

I still feel that that kind of "I'm all right , Jack " attitude is worthy of a bit of stick in thess times when a great many people are already cutting their disposable income right down beyond the bone in order to live !

Stop friggin moaning indeed ........

[blue phil]

Stick to selling spoons and spouting rightwing drivel Enoch, something you know about.

Den . I wish you'd stop putting me in the same bracket as this ridiculous poster . You only give credence to previous accusations that a certain bias might just be present amongst one or two of the moderators' .

You know as well as I do - and you can check the posts on this and any other thread - that I never descend to jim's level .

The truth of the matter is .....I simply don't need to .

[den]

Den . I wish you'd stop putting me in the same bracket as this ridiculous poster . You only give credence to previous accusations that a certain bias might just be present amongst one or two of the moderators' .

You know as well as I do - and you can check the posts on this and any other thread - that I never descend to jim's level .

The truth of the matter is .....I simply don't need to .

Well Phil, Jim sees it exactly the opposite to you. He thinks you're the problem and TBH I'm a bit fed up with the attitude of both of you.

'''''''and, don't accuse me of bias again please. If you have a problem with the mods, report it to admin.

[blue phil]

OK , Den . No problem .

I'm sure those readers who value true debate are capable of reading the thread and making their own minds up ....if they're interested that is !

As I've said many times before - I never start off any name calling on here . Nobody has yet to prove otherwise .

[den]

Thank you. There's one thing that really gets my goat BP, and that's being accused of bias. Your not the only one to accuse the mods of that sort of thing to be fair, but if there is any, and I'm confident from what I know about all the moderators that there isn't, it's completely unintentional.

[Paul]

I still feel that that kind of "I'm all right , Jack " attitude is worthy of a bit of stick in thess times when a great many people are already cutting their disposable income right down beyond the bone in order to live !

Stop friggin moaning indeed ........

The problem is phil that you interpret anything you feel doesn't fit you doom ladden view of the country as "I'm alright Jack". I'm not taking that point of view at all, what I am trying to point out is the vast majority of people in this country have a damn good life and should look at the positives rather than constantly harp on about the negatives. Everyone knows the country faces many serious problems, many we have faced for years under both Tory and labour administrations, but that doesn't stop people having a good life. There is far more right with this country than there is wrong, your problem is you seem incapable of acknowledging the positive and treat anyone who does with derision and accuse them of having a selfish attitude. It's a shame because you have good points to make and debate but they lose credence when you chose to treat others in the manner you do.

[tony gale's mic]

I've restrained myself from posting about this, but I agree with you. I find your comments, blue phil, to be really obnoxious and ill-informed, particularly about sixth-form polytechnic socialist indoctrination - I find that highly offensive. I believe I'm well-educated, not indoctrinated, and formed my own opinions. You and some select others seem to be afraid of forward-thinking. We're in the 21st century, not the 70s.

Oh and it was software engineering I studied... all the socialist indoctrination in those classes must be shining through eh?

I'd imagine it's just bitterness shining through from his own lack of education. I wouldn't take it too personally...