[Archived] Cricket - England V South Africa

[blue phil]

We still haven't solved the wicketkeeper problem from the Ashes series and seem to be a fast bowler short . Hopefully Simon Jones will fill that role ; I doubt Harmison ever will .

One annoying contribution today was that of the dingle Anderson - surely he should have followed Sidebottom's innings and played it sensibly leaving Colly to the scoring .

All in all , more consistent batting and bowling needed . It's not asking much ......

[DeadlyDirk]

Yes not the best end to the days play.

The wicket keeper position is still a problem yes, Ambrose has kept pretty well but the runs dont seem to be coming.

A lot of credit has to be given to Graeme Smith, a bit of luck with the decisions but it was a fine innings.

The umpiring decisions in this test have been pretty bad at times, I'm sure the referall system will come in.

The balance of the side is a tough one, be interesting to see the squad in the morning. Sidebottom looks set to miss out due to fitness, if Harmy comes in and does well will Sidebottom get his place back? Collingwood has surely booked his place for at least another test. Where does this all leae Broad?

Tough being a selector!

[Mattyblue]

If Kp's ego hadnt got the better of him and hed have added another 50 to his score, I think we would have done it. We did'nt and thats that. but i feel the time is right for change.

The County Championship has never been of a higher quality and its time to get some fresh, hungry players in. Out should go Strauss, Collingwood, Ambrose, maybe even the captain, not sure if anyone is ready to step up to lead though.

[DeadlyDirk]

If Kp's ego hadnt got the better of him and hed have added another 50 to his score, I think we would have done it. We did'nt and thats that. but i feel the time is right for change.

The County Championship has never been of a higher quality and its time to get some fresh, hungry players in. Out should go Strauss, Collingwood, Ambrose, maybe even the captain, not sure if anyone is ready to step up to lead though.

Yeh the KP one is a difficult one, one one hand he got us in the game by scoring 94, then on the other hand like you say he gave his wicket away when he looked set for a big score. He doesn't always seem to value his wicket enough. It's frustating when he gives it away because you know he is capable of so much better.

I agree, the county championship is looking strong. Strauss has been hit or miss the last 12 months, it seems if someone can bowl around the wicket to him and get a bit of away movement then he is more than likely to find the edge.

Collingwood, well he's been poor as of late, yes he's done well today and will probably be picked tomorrow for the final test but surely one innings can't save his long term career.

Again with Ambrose, I expect him to be picked tomorrow, there is little point giving somoene one test to prove themselves so its likely Ambrose will get one last chance.

Vaughan is a tough one because your right, nobody is ready to step up to lead. The thing is you could argue that potential captains are Cook, Strauss, Pietersen and Flintoff. Well Strauss has to be ruled out because he isn't assured of his place in the team. Flintoff has been tried and he himself has recentley been quoted as saying he is no longer interested in captaincy. Pietersen surely isn't ready to have the team resting on him while he still needs to look after himself. Although it could be argued that the greater responsibility may even make him pay more attention to his own responsiblility while batting. So that leaves Cook who is very young and has little experience as captain, probably only at youth level if any. So it is tough, Vaughan isn't getting any younger though so someone has to take over eventually.

Bopara surely has to be given a good chance to succeed at test level, he has been in fantastic form this year. Would also add some bowling if they want to go with 4 front line bowlers. Shah has also continued to look good this year, then there's Denby (sp?) from Kent I believe.

The wicket keeper will be debated until we find someone who can hit hundreds and keep well. It's and ongoing debate which has no easy answer. Ambrose, Prior, Read, Foster, Davies perhaps? In my opinion were not going to get someone like Alex Stewart again, or a Gilchrist if you will, at some point they have to decide whether or not they want a keeper who can bat or a batsmen who can keep. It's hard to get a balance to the side. If Broad is playing then he adds lower order batting which means you can perhaps favour a more orthadox wicket keeper, without Broad though unless you have a keeper who can bat the tail can look pretty long. I feel Prior is the best batter and Read is the best keeper.

The bowling looks pretty strong with strength in depth, sure they've struggled to take 20 wickets in recent tests but that is more to do with the batting letting them down meaning there is little pressure on the South Africans. With Panesar and Flintoff nailed on to be playing whenever fit at the moment you will continue to have competion for places between Anderson, Sidebottom and Broad who have been playing recentley, then you have the likes of Harmison and Jones returning to form, not forgetting Hoggard and the likes of Tremlett and Ali knocking on the door.

I'd be looking at perhaps trying something like this for the Windies.

Cook

Vaughan ©

Bell

Pietersen

Bopara

Flintoff

Prior

Anderson

Jones

Harmison

Panesar

[trs]

Could be the end for vaughan, with the announcement of a press conference at 1pm today.

[T4E]

Out should go Strauss, Collingwood, Ambrose, maybe even the captain,

Funny you should say that.

There is no one to take over from Vaughan, but I've long since said he performed better when he didn't have the captaincy millstone around his neck.

Very interested to see what is said at 1pm. Can't see him stepping down voluntarily.

[Simon Says]

The wicket keeper will be debated until we find someone who can hit hundreds and keep well. It's and ongoing debate which has no easy answer. Ambrose, Prior, Read, Foster, Davies perhaps? In my opinion were not going to get someone like Alex Stewart again, or a Gilchrist if you will, at some point they have to decide whether or not they want a keeper who can bat or a batsmen who can keep. It's hard to get a balance to the side. If Broad is playing then he adds lower order batting which means you can perhaps favour a more orthadox wicket keeper, without Broad though unless you have a keeper who can bat the tail can look pretty long. I feel Prior is the best batter and Read is the best keeper.

I am a bit old school when it comes to this debate.

The fact is the likes of Gilchrist come along one in a lifetime if you are lucky. I have always believed its up to the top six to put runs on the board, then the lower order hopefully chip in with a few.

Always, always pick your best keeper. It is a highly specialised position. In my opinion the best around at the moment is Foster followed by Read. Neither are rabbits with the bat either.

On Vaughan, the strong rumour is that he has resigned as captain. Announcement at 1.00.

[DeadlyDirk]

Could be the end for vaughan, with the announcement of a press conference at 1pm today.

Yes breaking news, they are saying now on SSN that Vaughan is standing down as captain.

Will he get a swansong in the team or is straight out of the squad?

Could be some big changes!

[T4E]

All very strange. I hope he goes back to Yorkshire, makes some runs and comes back in as the number 3 he was when he first got in to the test side.

Cork is on SSN pushing for Big Fat Bob to take over. Might not be the worst shout.

We'll probably get Strauss. Which reminds me way too much of replacing SGE with WWTB.

Edit: SSN are saying it's going to be Pietersen. Bold choice.

[DeadlyDirk]

More breaking news that Collingwood has stepped down as one day captain.

Big changes in english cricket.

Could well be Pietersen being captain of both disciplines. Although that's still all unconfirmed at this point.

[Grabbi Graeme]

SSN saying unconfirmed reports that Paul Collingwood has stood down as one day captain, if this is true it ties in with Pietersen set to be named captain for both England sides

[DeadlyDirk]

SSN saying unconfirmed reports that Paul Collingwood has stood down as one day captain, if this is true it ties in with Pietersen set to be named captain for both England sides

Beat you too it!

[DeadlyDirk]

So Vaughan during his press conference has confirmed he has stepped down as captain, stating that he felt the time was right and he didn't have the focus for the job after 5 years in charge. Fair play to him he has been a great captain and batsmen.

Hugh Morris has thanked Vaughan and confirmed Collingwood has also stepped down.

Vaughan will take a brief break from the game, Collingwood will continue to be available for selection for both forms of the game.

The new captain and squad for the final test will be confirmed tomorrow.

[AussieinUk]

On the field;

Disappointed by the result, thought Panesar really had Smith on one of the two occasions I saw - the touch of the glove looked a certainty to me and I couldn't believe that he wasn't given by the umpire.

Off the field;

Very interesting and brave move by Vaughan. Hopefully he regains his form and gets back into contention, in the not too distant future. I agree with comments from T4E, in that he may play with a lot more freedom, without the responsibilities of captain. Don’t get me wrong, I think he has admirable leadership qualities, but some players don’t seem to shine as they should (i.e. Tendulkar/Gayle/Lara to name a few)

Not too sure that KP will get the test captaincy role, ODI on the other hand, seems to 'fit the bill' nicley. My reasoning for this, is that he still seems to rash in his decision making. If England were to appoint the long term captain now, I would go for Cook - he is young and has had success both home & away, but you never know with English selections

IMO - Shah should step in as the No.3 for the final test with probably Strauss as the stand-in captain, if not Cook (reasoning mentioned above).

Out of interest - Does anyone know whether MV was pushed or just pressured into the decision?

[DeadlyDirk]

Out of interest - Does anyone know whether MV was pushed or just pressured into the decision?

Well Vaughan says he made the decision and the MD of England Hugh Morris insists Vaughan phoned him and not the other way around.

Vaughan also went on to say it had been weighing on his mind for a while but he knew that now was the time to go.

It does sound as though it was Vaughan's decision and judging by the press conference it was something he decided with his family.

However Hugh Morris did say when asked about whether or not Vaughan would have stayed as captain in the future if he continued to perform below par with the bat. Hugh Morris said that obviously we were disappointed to have lost the series with a game to play so everything would have to be looked at but there were no immediate plans to get rid of Vaughan.

Collingwood however it sounds as though he may have been given a slight nudge.

KP as captain would probably have no middle ground, it would either be brilliant or a complete disaster!

I say be bold and exciting, take a chance and give KP a go, it has to be him or Cook for me. Strauss just seems like a sideway step. They also say that they want the captain to be the captain of both the test sides and the one day sides. It could be argued that Pietersen and Flintoff are the only ones sure of their places in both teams and Flintoff has said he doesn't want the job.

1pm tomorrow, press conference at Lords to announce the squad and new captain.

[AussieinUk]

Cheers DD!

I totally agree on- "KP as captain would probably have no middle ground, it would either be brilliant or a complete disaster!"

If some could post a synopsis of the press conference tomorrow, that would be great - as I can't get Sky anymore!

[Rover down South]

Alistair Cook, he was predicted to be future England captain a few years ago.

[grizfoot]

Alistair Cook, he was predicted to be future England captain a few years ago.

He's not really a one-day player though and I believe England are looking for one captain for all forms of the game. In that case there's only few players you'd say have a shout of getting the captainancy that would be Strauss, Flintoff and Pietersen. Strauss isn't exactly guranteed a place in the starting team and still looks a bit dodgy with the bat. Flintoff as enough to contend with being an all-rounder making him captain would just add extra pressure. In my opinion it seems the only plausible candidate is Pietersen as he's the only batsmen guranteed to be in both test and one-day side. Whether he'd make a good captain is questionable though.

As for Vaughan stepping down I think it's the right time. England have come on loads since he took the reigns and the '05 ashes victory will long live in the memory. One of England's greatest ever captains undoubtly. Hopefully he'll be able to recapture some form maybe play some county games for Yorkshire, because when he is in form he's a brillaint batsmen to watch and would certainly still warrant a place in the England side.

[DeadlyDirk]

Press conference on SSN now

Kevin Pietersen will captain both the test side and one day side as heavily rumoured.

KP has thankd Vaughan, said he was a great captain and huge boots to fill, said he was a great leader and friend.

Says the obvious stuff that its a great honour and its going to give it his best shot. Admits only time will tell if it will affect his form but hopes it won't affect his batting style.

No major changes in the squad, Ambrose keeps his place, didn't quite catch the full list but sounded like the only change is Bopara in for Vaughan.

[AussieinUk]

Press conference on SSN now

Kevin Pietersen will captain both the test side and one day side as heavily rumoured.

KP has thankd Vaughan, said he was a great captain and huge boots to fill, said he was a great leader and friend.

Says the obvious stuff that its a great honour and its going to give it his best shot. Admits only time will tell if it will affect his form but hopes it won't affect his batting style.

No major changes in the squad, Ambrose keeps his place, didn't quite catch the full list but sounded like the only change is Bopara in for Vaughan.

Thanks DD..

This will be interesting!

[Eddie]

Hopefully being captain will help him keep his mouth shut and value his wicket a bit more. Needs to realise that people don't tune in to watch the KP show and actually care about England. Wouldn't have been my first choice, but we aren't blessed with a bucketload of good candidates right now.

[b12_simon]

huge boots to fill

A bit harsh on Vaughan IMO

Seriously I'm not keen on the idea of Captain KP but can't think of any of the current 1st team I'd be happy with.

The Aussies must be smelling victory already.

[AussieinUk]

Interesting XI for the 4th test against the Safa's. IMO the batting line up looks quite decent. On the bowling; The pace attack can now be more evenly shared amongst the 4 pacemen. This team looks nicley balanced.

Im keen to see how Harmy gets on.

Cook

Strauss

Bell

Pieterson

Collingwood

Flintoff

Ambrose

Broad

Anderson

Harmison

Panesar

Im not going to predict, as I do not want to jinx the result - I have money on this one.

[Simon Says]

Im keen to see how Harmy gets on.

Did well. The old Harmy is back!

[AussieinUk]

Did well. The old Harmy is back!

Good to see! All chipped in well IMO (although Broad was unusually expensive compared to the others). To bowl the Safa's out at 9/91 is brilliant.

Early days, but looking very good.