[Archived] Rovers Midfield

[Blue n White Rover]

There is a lot of talk on Nicko's thread about the amount of midfielders Rovers will have if Castillo and Andrews sign.

If they do our midfield will be:

Morten Gamst Pedersen

Treacy

Castillo

Andrews

Dunn

Vogel

Tugay

Reid

Bentley/new replacement

Emerton

Mokoena

Attacking midfielder?

Giggs??

From that I reckon we may have around 10-12 midfielders. A lot of competition for each spot and that could only be good for the club meaning each of our midfield will have to be on top of thier game just to keep their place in the starting 11.

Who would you have as your starting 4 in midfield and why?

[gumboots]

Are we trying to be spurs? Thought only they had that many midfielders

[1&OnlyRover]

a bit pointless starting this thread as we dont know what formation he will play, what types of player ince brings ince, maye a week or 2 later well have a clear idea, seeing a few come in and how pre season goes

[benlloninho]

Do I understand correctly that Ince prefers five in midfield?

I kinda expect it to be Vogel, Reid/Emerton, Castillo/whoever, Pedersen on the left and Bentley's replacement on the right.

Tugay won't play much, Mokoena will be a peripheral figure (hopefully). Dunn, Reid/Emerton, Andrews will have to battle it out I guess for first off the bench. Treacy - back up for Gamst . There are going to be 7 subs next year, for whatever that is worth.

I doubt Giggs will play for us next season, but who knows. Either way, I don't think that's too many midfielders.

[b12_simon]

Mokoena will be a peripheral figure (hopefully).

IMO the Axe is a handy stopper in a 5 man midfield. It's as part of a 4-4-2 where his shortcomings are a problem.

[benlloninho]

IMO the Axe is a handy stopper in a 5 man midfield. It's as part of a 4-4-2 where his shortcomings are a problem.

I don't disagree, but I believe he's more suited as a sub with 10 minutes to go. Tho this has become a sort of cliché.

I would hope we would have more dynamic/better players available to start matches, but it remains to be seen who we will actually have.

[Ronin]

I suppose it's better than having a threadbare midfield that we've had recently.

[roverfanuk]

First team midfielders for next season should be:

Morten Gamst Pedersen

Castillo

Dunn

Vogel

SWP

Emerton

Bradley

Reid

{midfielder who can play both wings ala Hignett}

[MarkBRFC]

I suppose it's better than having a threadbare midfield that we've had recently.

Thing is, our Midfield was hardly "threadbare" last season.

We had - Bentley, Emerton, Reid, Savage/Vogel, Dunn, Tugay, Mokena, Pederson, Treacey & Peter who could all play there.

The problem wasnt lack of numbers, it was lack of quality.

[joey_big_nose]

Thing is, our Midfield was hardly "threadbare" last season.

We had - Bentley, Emerton, Reid, Savage/Vogel, Dunn, Tugay, Mokena, Pederson, Treacey & Peter who could all play there.

The problem wasnt lack of numbers, it was lack of quality.

I would disagree with that - it definately was threadbare!

In February we had no Reid (only on his way back), no Vogel, Savage was gone. So our options were Dunn, Tugay and the Axe in central midfield....!

If Reid makes a full recovery we will have a lot flexibility. For me Axe is definately out the door, and if we do sign three central midfielders Tugay will move into a coaching role and one out of Dunn or Reid could be sold although it woould not be a neccesity.

At any rate our central midfield next season is going to be a lot stronger than it was.

[USRoverME]

I agree, I think being forced to find out that your right back is a capable central midfielder defines "threadbare midfield"

[allanncd]

The signing of Andrews would be unbelievable. Potentially the worst signing I've seen in more than 40 years of supporting Rovers. Likely to rival the signing of Paul McKinnon a 28 year old striker from non-league Sutton United. Since when has a player of that age moved from the 4th Division (in old money) to the top division and then made a meaningfull contribution?Answer- never.

[DeadlyDirk]

Just thought I'd bump this up because I'm interested to see what people think our midfield will line up like next season.

Good news this morning is that the knocks to Warnock and Grella are only minor and they should be back in a day or two, Reid and Emerton are making excellent progress from their long term injuries.

http://www.rovers.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,...1727146,00.html

Right now we seem to have a lot of midfielders/wingers, half of which seem to be injured all the time but who do you think is going to be our best midfield come the opening day assuming everyone is fit.

We have a lot of depth, there are still question marks about the quality though.

RM

Diouf

Emerton

Hoillet

Van Heerden

Judge

Doran

LM

Pedersen

Treacey

Van Heerden

Olsson

CM

Dunn

Grella

Reid

N'Zonzi

Emerton

Andrews

Warnock

Judge

Just to pick out a few names,

Givet:

Yes I'm starting with a defender not on the list above. That's because I feel this guy is fantastic and has to play, I can't see us dropping our captain in Nelsen and assuming we sign a striker he'll be partnering Samba at the back surely, meaning Givet has to play at left back.

Warnock:

Well with Givet at left back it leaves no place for Warnock there, but again similiarly to Givet I think Warnock is in the category of having to play. He has improved so much since joining us and is becoming a team man and a good all round player, an all action midfield role surely is the place for him this year unless Givet, Nelsen or Samba are left on the bench which doesn't seem an option for me.

Emerton:

Another team man who once fully fit surely has to play. He's probably been our most reliable performer in recent times and must be one of our longest serving members now. He has a tremendous action and offers us some pace which few of our other players can do. Versatility is a big strength of his but perhaps almost a weakness as well as it's hard to define his best position, even us fans can't seem to agree on it. I think he has to play though and see it in midfield, if he was needed at right back then I don't see the need for Jacobsen, the likes of Andrews and Givet could have provided backup for Emerton. If he plays though it leaves us with few options left in midfield.

Pedersen:

Almost has the position by default this year, Treacey seems to have gone backwards and BFS has admitted that Van Heerden won't feature a lot in the first half of the season until he adapts and gets a bit stronger. (I think Elrio may be used a bit as an impact sub for his pace, his strength really does look frail at the moment to last very long.) Olsson could play there as shown for Sweden but is far too raw still. Diouf can play on the left but I feel as though he'll mainly be used on the right as although I initially said Pedersen has the position by default, that's not to say he doesn't deserve it. For me I think it's a big season for him, he's in the finall year of his contract and although he has been a good performer and again becoming another team man people still want to see him offer a few more goals this year and shown a bit more attacking threat then he has done in the last season or so. Hopefully he can really come of age this year and deliver the goods that I'm sure he's capable of.

Diouf:

Diouf can offer us something a little big different than other players, although he doesn't score as often as he once did in his previous years he's still someone always trying to make something happen and his work rate and commitment has noticebly improved and surprised me this year. He seems to be a big favourite of Sam's and will feature regularly again this year.

Dunn:

Dunny, Dunny, Dunny, bags of talent but injuries really have taken their toll over him, never the quickest but his legs really seem to have taken a hit these days. Still a clever player, good on the ball and perhaps our best passer now Tugay has gone but I see him being a bit part player this year. I could see him almost taking the Tugay role, perhaps playing in a 5 man midfield now and again or coming on when we are struggling for possession and need to play some football for a bit. Still has a lot to offer but as I said will perhaps play more of a bit part player this year, don't think he has the body to feature regularly anymore without breaking down again, sad as it is.

Reid:

The forgotten man, almost like a new signing after featuring very little in the last 2 or 3 years apart from the odd run here and there. He's looking very lean in training and has always had a great engine and physical side to his game, on the ball still a bit questionable for me but can provide great cover for the midfield and if he can get back to his best form he could well force his way into the starting lineup on a regular basis. It's hard to call just how well Reid will do this year, it's really up to him and how much of a chance Sam gives him.

Grella:

Average and inconsistent would sum up his season for me. At times he looked very good but then at others he looked very mediocre. Another who seems to suffer with injuries as well. He has openly admitted he was disappointed with last season and can do a lot better which is always good to hear. He's obviously a strong willed and committed player, strong in the challenge and a good ball winner/players legs winner/which I've always admired and it's a style of play which can help get the fans on your side. For me though he didn't show enough last year to walk into the starting lineup and I think he might have to take a backseat role and wait for his chance, if he takes it then he could well find himself playing regularly.

N'Zonzi:

The next Vieira, well so they say! Well for a youngster this lad is a physical beast and certainly goes with the BFS sterotype player. We don't know a lot about him and have just seen a few bits of pre season with him but it looks like he has potential, a few question marks over his distribution and general play on the ball but you can't tell a lot at this state. Looks almost unbeatable in the air. The fact that he's straight into the first team squad and taking a very active part early on in pre season though suggest VFS could see him playing this year at least off the bench or as cover for the starters. For the reported 400k or so we paid this guy could be an absolute bargain and at worst he's a 400k flop so it's almost win win for Rovers.

Andrews:

Well he certainly has his divided set of fans, I'm on the he does a decent job for us without being spectacular and is a useful squad player side. I can't see him being a regular this year with the other players around if they are fit. I see at least 5 players ahead of him for the CM role, he could be backup at RB if Emerton is in midfield. I'm sure if he stays at the club he'll end up getting 10 or 20 appearances somewhere along the line once we have a few knocks or need to rest players.

Hoillet, Van Heerden, Doran, Judge, Treacey:

I think we'll see Hoillet and Van Heerden come on for the last 10 minutes of games now and again if we need a goal. There pace can offer us something a bit different but it's to early to see them playing regularly. Doran and Judge will provide deep cover and feature now and again in the odd cup games, Treacey will pop up now and then I'm sure.

Diouf---Emerton---Warnock---Pedersen

or

Diouf---Emerton---Dunn---Warnock---Pedersen

All in all if anyone's still reading I've pretty much come to the conclusion of the above as our first choice midfield, it's a bit worrying that our two starting CM haven't really played there regularly but I feel there team play, work ethic and good stamina makes them great options as well as both being good on the ball. I'd prefer one of them offered a bit more going forward but that's where Dunny will come in if we play 5 in midfield, he can pick the passes and get on the ball to try and make something happen. Pedersen and Diouf as I said could look at improving their goalthreats this year. The likes of Reid, Grella and N'Zonzi provide the cover in the middle and can all come on to change the game in their own ways.

I think all in all though the fact that we have a lot of versatility in midfield and other areas will be taken advantage of next season. We have a lot of similiarly talented midfielders so they could well be chopped around if injuries happen. E.G If Diouf and Givet were out, Warnock could move to left back, Emerton to right midfield and Reid and Grella come into the middle. It might not always be a good thing to regularly change someone's position though, I'd like to see the players playing regularly in the same positions in an ideal world, but you can't always help injuries.

[DeadlyDirk]

I must be missing something. I thought van Heerden was a central midfielder! So can he play both wings if needed? Do you know which his preferred position is?

He's versatile really, has played right, center and left, mainly on the right or in an advanced attacking midfield central role.

He could play there for us just behind the striker as well I guess but he won't be playing center midfield in the premiership, he's not big enough or up to it at the moment. Most likely to feature on the right or just behind the striker. He's right footed but pretty decent on his left too.

Oh and preferred, just a guess really, I think he prefers the more central number 10 role but we all know how physical the premiership is, I think he'd really struggle like Villanueva in the middle and at least he'd have the pace out wide to try and make it. In fact he's not disimiliar in stature to Villanueva, just quicker and probably not as strong

[champions1995]

Good review there Deadly Dirk. Out of the two midfield's you created, I would have to go for the second choice as I believe a player like Dunn is needed in the centre so he can pull the strings and dictate our play. However, I personally would like to see two strikers up front, as we all know McCarthy can't play on his own and Roberts works better with a man alongside him. I suppose Pedersen and Diouf can come forward more and support the striker, with Emerton and Warnock providing cover. I'm still not sure of Diouf as a right winger though, as I believed he came inside far too much last season and seemed to have a 'free role.'

[den]

The midfield is frightening at this moment in time. It was the weakest in the prem last season and there is nothing added to it. Worrying.

The lads brought in have to prove they're up to the challenge, but there's nothing in their pedigree to suggest they are. Of course, they might be - who knows? Reid is unlikely to become what he used to be overnight. Emerton is still short of games - so no guarantees there. How anyone can be enthusiastic about rovers midfield at this point, is baffling.

[Jackson]

Great review - I really enjoyed reading that. I agree generally and the signings look like we'll defo be going for a 4-5-1 (or a 4-4-1-1).

[OJRovers]

I hope Judge gets a chance this year, he looks a quality little player with a lot of energy and skill.

For those who think his size could be problem; see Iniesta/Xavi.

In contrast to last year I think (if everyone stays fit) central midfield will be very competitive, there may be some disappointed players not getting in the team, although as mentioned above Warnock and Emerton need to be in the starting X1 somewhere.

[champions1995]

The midfield is frightening at this moment in time. It was the weakest in the prem last season and there is nothing added to it. Worrying.

The lads brought in have to prove they're up to the challenge, but there's nothing in their pedigree to suggest they are. Of course, they might be - who knows? Reid is unlikely to become what he used to be overnight. Emerton is still short of games - so no guarantees there. How anyone can be enthusiastic about rovers midfield at this point, is baffling.

I am also slightly worried about the new signings, especially when you consider Allardyce has no new plans to strengthen in that department this summer. Neither N'Zonzi or Van Heerden have any Premier League experience, but we just have to wait and see how they get along. As for Emerton, I believe he will come back strong and will still be an important member of our squad.

I do not believe we have the worst midfield in the division and that we will be stronger and better in that department this season.

[tcj_jones]

The midfield is frightening at this moment in time. It was the weakest in the prem last season and there is nothing added to it. Worrying.

The lads brought in have to prove they're up to the challenge, but there's nothing in their pedigree to suggest they are. Of course, they might be - who knows? Reid is unlikely to become what he used to be overnight. Emerton is still short of games - so no guarantees there. How anyone can be enthusiastic about rovers midfield at this point, is baffling.

It worries me hugely as well, Den.

CM has desperately needed strengthening since Savage picked up his long-term injury two-and-a-half seasons ago. There is a LOT of pressure on N'Zonzi to perform and God help us if Dunn doesn't stay injury free.

[Blue blood]

I think a lot depends on how good Jakobsen is as to where Emerton plays. If Jakobsen is top quality, then that's one of the cm berths sorted out with Emerton, and the other to be fought over.

Having said that I'd like to see Diouf and Emerton combining on the right side of our team. I think Emerton's overlaps could give Diouf that bit more time and space to deliver more quality crosses, which he can do, and add a bit more pace down the right flank.

In an ideal world the midfield would be

Diouf, Reid, Dunn, Pedersen with the two cms getting back to their best. The chances of this are unlikely though.

More realistically I've a feeling we'd see either:

4-4-2 with Diouf, Dunn, Warnock, Pedersen - as DD says it's unthinkable both Givet and Warnock won't play, or possibly due to injuries in defence, Grella coming in for Warnock and Warnock dropping to lb, Givet to cb.

Or in a 4-5-1 with

Diouf, Grella, Dunn, Warnock, Pedersen

In both cases what worries me is the creativity and the ability to pass in the centre of our midfield.

Although we've got lots of busy box to box midfielders - Reid, Warnock, Emerton, Andrews, as well as a couple of defensive sitters in Grella and N'Zonzi, very few of these are reliable acomplished passers. In fact other than Dunn, we've no one in the cm who can reliably stroke it about and build the attacks.

Emerton imo is decent at passing, but that is not his role in midfield - he's there to add energy, and as for the rest none really could be said to pass it about nicely. One weaker passer in the centre of midfield isn't a problem, especially if they bring other qualities to the team, but not having either of the cms being able to pass the ball well is a serious problem, and will lead to the opposition having a lot of possession.

In short what I'm trying to say is we are horribly reliant on Dunn for creativity and more importantly good passing to keep us ticking over.

[joey_big_nose]

The mian thing that strikes me about this is not only how many options we have, but also how few individuals have really staked a place in midfield. To illustrate I would say the shapes available to us are broadly as follows:

442:

--------McCarthy--Roberts

Pedersen---Warnock------Diouf

------------------Grella

Givet----Nelsen---Samba---Jackobsem

--------------Robinson

4231

----------------Roberts

Pedersen---Van Heerden?----Diouf

---------Warnock-----Grella

--Givet----Nelsen---Samba---Jackobsem

---------------Robinson

433

--Pedersen-----Roberts---Diouf

----------Warnock----Dunn

-----------------Grella

Givet-----Nelsen---Samba---Jackobsen

---------------Robinson

Most people who will look through them will stongly disagree with those lineups, and that illustrates my point. It is possible to make a strong argument for anyone to play almost anywhere in the midfield because no matter which way you shuffle the names round nothing is convincing.

In preseason so far only Diouf has looked impressive. Many will think Emerton should be found a berth in midfield. N'zonzi has looked plausible. Judge has shown talent. Reid will want a shot. Dunn is arguably our only really creative player. There are too many permutations and not enough certainties.

Sam is going to have a big job just tryng to find a settled first XI in the next three weeks. In many ways this is one of the most important hurdles to overcome early in a season. If we are unsettled it will damage performance.

[LeChuck]

Surprised a lot of people are thinking Warnock will be starting in midfield, I think he'll be left back unless injuries dictate otherwise. If everyone is fit then I think this will be Sam's first choice:

.............Grella

....Emerton...Dunn

..Diouf..............Pedersen

The problem, of course, is keeping everyone fit. I think Emerton will be fine as he's a naturally fit person, but I really worry about Grella, Dunn and Reid.

[DeadlyDirk]

Surprised a lot of people are thinking Warnock will be starting in midfield, I think he'll be left back unless injuries dictate otherwise. If everyone is fit then I think this will be Sam's first choice:

.............Grella

....Emerton...Dunn

..Diouf..............Pedersen

The problem, of course, is keeping everyone fit. I think Emerton will be fine as he's a naturally fit person, but I really worry about Grella, Dunn and Reid.

But where would that leave Givet? He's too good for the bench in my opinion and has to play.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Surprised a lot of people are thinking Warnock will be starting in midfield, I think he'll be left back unless injuries dictate otherwise. If everyone is fit then I think this will be Sam's first choice:

.............Grella

....Emerton...Dunn

..Diouf..............Pedersen

The problem, of course, is keeping everyone fit. I think Emerton will be fine as he's a naturally fit person, but I really worry about Grella, Dunn and Reid.

You see Samba or Nelsen being dropped?