[Archived] Rovers Midfield

[joey_big_nose]

Being "no worse" than anyone else in a midfield that was the poorest in the league, is no recommendation to keep him there JBN. He isn't good enough.

Your being a bit disingenuous. A) Our midfield is not the poorest in the league. Warnock scored a few goals and did a great job of getting in the face of the opposition. This is vital - every team has players who do that.

I suppose we are just going to have to disagree, but I can see Warnock maturing into a good regular central midfield player who will break up the play and a get a good share of goals over the season.

From your point of view, which is essentially everybody is poor and worthless and should be sold (which is rather unimaginative and a bit wearing but fair enough if you feel that way), you are going to be disappointed. We have too many midfielders as it is, it will be hard to sell them, and there are no targets out there who we can reasonably afford who would sate your sweet tooth.We can take a punt on foreign players, but I imagine you would feel bitterly disappointed by that too.

Can you name 10 midfielders outside the top four you would believe to be of sufficient quality that if we signed them you would be excited?

[den]

Your being a bit disingenuous. A) Our midfield is not the poorest in the league. Warnock scored a few goals and did a great job of getting in the face of the opposition. This is vital - every team has players who do that.

I would stick to the point that our midfield is/was awful.

From your point of view, which is essentially everybody is poor and worthless and should be sold (which is rather unimaginative and a bit wearing but fair enough if you feel that way), you are going to be disappointed.

Your words, not mine JBN. You have to agree that the side we put out last season was pretty woeful, We saw some of the poorest football at Ewood for a long time. I would love to say differently, but that wouldn't be accurate.

We have too many midfielders as it is, it will be hard to sell them, and there are no targets out there who we can reasonably afford who would sate your sweet tooth.

Why get all personal when someone doesn't agree with you JBN? Plus, the bit in bold, is just a silly argument.

Can you name 10 midfielders outside the top four you would believe to be of sufficient quality that if we signed them you would be excited?

Yeah, we all could, but what has that got to do with whether or not Warnock is going to develop into a class midfielder?

[joey_big_nose]

Why get all personal when someone doesn't agree with you JBN? Plus, the bit in bold, is just a silly argument.

Yeah, we all could, but what has that got to do with whether or not Warnock is going to develop into a class midfielder?

Why is it a silly argument? At some point you are going to have to use an example of something being better as opposed to your opinion that we are so crushingly worse. Context is a crucial component to any argument.

The point is to try and ascertain what you consider a class midfielder to be who we could realistically bring into the club to replace Warnock. My main point being that you don't really know. I feel you judge the club by unrealistic criteria, which lead to a level of negativity that is depressing to read!

I didn't mean to get personal, so apologies about that.

[den]

I didn't mean to get personal, so apologies about that.

No worries

[rover6]

One good winger makes a huge difference to a team. (As we know with Duff and Bentley).

The most worrying thing for me is that we will go into this season with Gamst and Diouf on the flanks (I suspect). Neither are genuinely creative. Diouf's a terrier and Gamst is, well, powderpuff, most of the time. Neither are fast or truly skilful - so where is the outlet? Can we rely on our fullbacks for width and creativity?

Imo, Allardyce has to make a bold move. Find a real winger - perhaps Elrio or Doran could step up - or a new signing. We need someone fast, skilful and courageous. It doesn't matter if their distribution is iffy, their crossing suspect. If we have a threatening outlet, that frees up the rest of the pitch for our slower, less imaginative players to make an impact (and boy do we have plenty of those!).

Gamst and Diouf is not the way forward - unless we are truly to become Bolton Rovers.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Your being a bit disingenuous. A) Our midfield is not the poorest in the league. Warnock scored a few goals and did a great job of getting in the face of the opposition. This is vital - every team has players who do that.

It was the worst midfield in the league last season IMO, only our defence and forwards kept us up.

[Hughesy]

One good winger makes a huge difference to a team. (As we know with Duff and Bentley).

The most worrying thing for me is that we will go into this season with Gamst and Diouf on the flanks (I suspect). Neither are genuinely creative. Diouf's a terrier and Gamst is, well, powderpuff, most of the time. Neither are fast or truly skilful - so where is the outlet? Can we rely on our fullbacks for width and creativity?

Imo, Allardyce has to make a bold move. Find a real winger - perhaps Elrio or Doran could step up - or a new signing. We need someone fast, skilful and courageous. It doesn't matter if their distribution is iffy, their crossing suspect.

I dont think that is our main priority just now.

We have Elrio Van Herden, Doran & maybe even Hoillett who all have pace and could all play on the wings. Diouf's crossing is quite good, and gamst IF he gets back to any sort of decent form is also very good.

Centre midfield (creativity) is far more important to us right now.

[Rovermatt]

I played a blinder last night. I'll play in there.

[waggy]

we need a playmaker,going into the season relying on dunn and ried will be a diasaster

[DeadlyDirk]

It was the worst midfield in the league last season IMO, only our defence and forwards kept us up.

Has to be one of the most chopped and changed midfields though, a lot of the problems were due to injuries, our first choice midfield while not being world beaters is better than some premiership clubs.

We were basically playing anyone who was fit there at times last season, just to reel off some names we used

Diouf, Emerton, Pedersen, Treacey, Andrews, Dunn, Grella, Tugay, Mokoena, Warnock, Reid as well as the likes of Vogel, Haworth, Doran getting the odd run out. That's certainly a lot of chop and changing, getting an established regular midfield who stay fit and play together consistently would be a good start! We must have had around 9 or 10 midfielders who picked up 15-20 appearances last year which shows just how stretched we were at times.

[Hughesy]

Cant see it being possible - but Tuncay would be good in a creative role, how about a cheeky bid for Elano seeing he was told to stay away from their tour?!

[Blue blood]

The most worrying thing for me is that we will go into this season with Gamst and Diouf on the flanks (I suspect). Neither are genuinely creative. Diouf's a terrier and Gamst is, well, powderpuff, most of the time. Neither are fast or truly skilful - so where is the outlet? Can we rely on our fullbacks for width and creativity?

Gamst and Diouf is not the way forward - unless we are truly to become Bolton Rovers.

Both our wide midfielders lack pace, but can deliver a great cross. With emerton and warnock as attacking full backs i think both will get a lot more time to deliver dangerous crosses. Added to which as others have already said, we've some potential in our other wide players which could make a huge difference. We'll see.

As for the rest, I think everyone is unanimous that we need a creative midfielder who can really pass the ball. Worrying that it's such a big problem that virtually everyone is calling for a creative centre mid.

[Tom]

I see it as:

Diouf Emerton Dunn Warnock Pedersen

or

UNPOPULAR OPINION TIME

If we are going to go 442 I would be tempted to cash in on Warnock and bring in a top quality attacking CM to partner Emo in CM.

As good as Warnock is I feel Givet is a better LB and has to play, Samba or Nelsen wont be dropped so he will play LB. That leaves Warnock either CM or LW and neither is is stongest position.

The only other way is to go 3-5-2

Samba Nelsen Givet

Emo Dunn N'Zonzi Grella Warnock

Diouf

New front man

But the above is far far far from ideal as well, all in all it's a real tough one.

[LeChuck]

As good as Warnock is I feel Givet is a better LB and has to play, Samba or Nelsen wont be dropped so he will play LB. That leaves Warnock either CM or LW and neither is is stongest position.

Who plays if Givet is unavailable or required to play centre back?

[Tom]

Good point but it means either Warnock settling for a place on the bench or being utilised in a position that he doesnt excel in

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Very much agree with all you have said especially the bit I have put in bold. The problem is without creative midfielders there's no point in buying strikers. We don't have any players capable of creating the chances so goodness knows how we are going to score goals this season. We've been reliant on Tugay for years and have done nothing to address replacing him or Bentley.

It's beginning to look like a long season of percentage football is ahead of us. When did we ever create anything from one of MGP's long throws?

It is true that last season we hardly created anything from MGP's throws. That was because he only had Samba to aim for and so was relatively easy to deal with for defenders. If Rovers sign a big target man then we will have more options to aim for.

Sam has said previously that a team who deals with set pieces well, both attacking and defending, will virtually get a Top Ten finish. Putting two and two together I'm thinking that will be Sam's operational stratergy so I can't see much open play so the need for creative midfielders is going to be minimal. Like last season we will be very direct especially if Rovers sign the type of striker he appears to be looking for which would allow him to play one up front.

If Sam plays one up front there will be a need for players to be able to get and support a lone from midfield then get back and defend. Passing ability or ability on the ball will be secondary to that.

[joey_big_nose]

I would be tempted to cash in on Warnock and bring in a top quality attacking CM to partner Emo in CM.

I would support that if we got 10 million quid for him. Problem is even for 10 million quid I am not sure who we could get to replace him of the required quality.. Krankjaer?

[rover6]

Both our wide midfielders lack pace, but can deliver a great cross. With emerton and warnock as attacking full backs i think both will get a lot more time to deliver dangerous crosses. Added to which as others have already said, we've some potential in our other wide players which could make a huge difference. We'll see.

As for the rest, I think everyone is unanimous that we need a creative midfielder who can really pass the ball. Worrying that it's such a big problem that virtually everyone is calling for a creative centre mid.

That's a fair point. Emerton was excellent in creating space for Bentley back in those days.

However, Bentley was also capable of doing something out of nothing. However, he would run with the ball and take on his man, which is so crucial.

Gamst can shoot but just doesn't have the belief or pace to run with the ball. Diouf's more confident but still, imo, doesn't have that quality.

Imo, the current central midfielders we have will be fine if we find a decent winger. Perhaps, Hoilett could be the answer. If we have someone who can stay wide and stretch the play, occupying opposition players, suddenly Andrews and Grella and Dunn etc will have time on the ball and an outlet to pass to. It's when there are too few options that these midfielders will mess up, because they don't have it in them to play intricate, eye-of-the-needle, spontaneous passes.

In fact, the speedy player doesn't have to be on the wing. When we had Bellamy, he was a great outlet further forward.

[alexanders]

STEVEN NZONZI IMPRESSES SAM!

It will be very exciting to see how many games this guy will start.

Glad to see that he is coping with it all and impressing our Manager.

[paulyrover]

I can see Sam coming up with a formation similar to what he had at Bolton with less long ball tactics.

Robinson

Jacobsen/Emerton Nelsen Samba Givet

Grella/N'Zonzi

Dunn/Reid Warnock/Andrews

Diouf/Mccarthy Pedersen/Holliet

Striker We Sign/Roberts

This system could easily be turned into a 4-4-2 if needs be and would have 3 hard working players in midfield with Dunn and Warnock breaking forward when the team attacked as well. Although it would heavily rely on Pedersen and Diouf tracking back a lot which isn't either of their strong points. But this system would have potential if we sign a Zigic or a Crouch type player.

[joey_big_nose]

I can see Sam coming up with a formation similar to what he had at Bolton with less long ball tactics.

Robinson

Jacobsen/Emerton Nelsen Samba Givet

Grella/N'Zonzi

Dunn/Reid Warnock/Andrews

Diouf/Mccarthy Pedersen/Holliet

Striker We Sign/Roberts

This system could easily be turned into a 4-4-2 if needs be and would have 3 hard working players in midfield with Dunn and Warnock breaking forward when the team attacked as well. Although it would heavily rely on Pedersen and Diouf tracking back a lot which isn't either of their strong points. But this system would have potential if we sign a Zigic or a Crouch type player.

I think that is a likely outcome. I would disagree about Diouf and Pedersen - one of their strong points is how much ground they cover and how good they are at tracking back.

[MarkBRFC]

I'm really not sure why people would want Warnock in midfield.

[paulyrover]

I'm really not sure why people would want Warnock in midfield.

Yeah i understand that but Samba, Nelsen and Givet are all better defenders than him and likely to play ahead of him in defence. Plus, although he's not as good in midfield he still is prem standard and put in a few decent performances there last season. He has all the attributes for a good midfielder..Work rate, tackling, passing, crossing, stamina etc. and if he starts to play there on a regualr basis he can only get better. It wouldn't be right to have a player like Warnock on our bench. In an ideal world one of Warnock or Givet would be a right back.

[MarkBRFC]

Sorry, but he's no where near good enough to be a regular Premier League midfielder.

For me he plays Left Back, or he sits on the bench.