[Archived] Blackburn Sign Chilean Superstar Carlos Villanueva

[JAL]

Rovers must decide on Carlos by the end of this year..

So, what do people think? Spend £5m out of our budget on him by Xmas, or not?

I would have to say not.

Hes going to have to put in a few sparkling performances between now and crimbo, hopefully starting on Sunday against Chelsea what better a team to strutt your stuff against and show us all his worth.

[T4E]

The 4.5 million figure that was quoted included the 750k or so for his wages and 750k fee we paid to get him on loan, so we are really only looking at spending an extra 3 million. He certainly hasn't been fantastic, but in my opinion he has shown that he has the potential to be a very good player once he is fully up to speed and adjusted to the game.

I would say yes.

If you're right it probably is a yes. If den's £5m is right then it's got to be a no so far. His true value at his age and with his potential is somewhere between the two.

[Bobby G]

Biggest hindrance is a lack of pace...

In this league especially pace is vital. I am not sure if he will be a success or not...I wish the option could have been at the end of the season rather than 2008.

[den]

We can all speculate on the actual fee. It's pretty well nailed on though, that the remaining fee to be paid will be quite a large amount for our club. Rovers wont have paid a vast amount up front in this case.

The actual fee really isn't the question though is it? The question is, would rovers be wise to spend a "significant" amount of money on Carlos?

I say no for the following reason:

I said after watching him on youtube that he wouldn't be able to play centre midfield. The alternatives are to play him left wing [who wants another slow winger], or play him behind a striker [which means choosing tactics to fit a player into the side, - not a good idea.]

I don't think he'll ever be a regular starter and for the kind of money being discussed here, I would want someone who will, or could, play every game.

[Amo]

Pace is commodity but not a necessity. He really needs to be slotted behind the front man. If we can get people like Grella & Emerton to do the running and dirty work for him, it'll give him a chance to put his foot on the ball and make things happen.

[JAL]

Pace is commodity but not a necessity. He really needs to be slotted behind the front man. If we can get people like Grella & Emerton to do the running and dirty work for him, it'll give him a chance to put his foot on the ball and make things happen.

Do we not have a player who also fits that same criteria Elijah in Brenni MaCarthy, surely Rovers arent that good to be able to afford TWO similar players.

[gumboots]

Do we not have a player who also fits that same criteria Elijah in Brenni MaCarthy, surely Rovers arent that good to be able to afford TWO similar players.

McCarthy is making those I want out type of noises again though. And if I read it right, it's only to get the agreed price that we have to decide by Christmas so we could get the rest of the year out of the loan deal and then make our minds up. the question presumably is do we think it's worth paying that fee now, or risk his coming good in which case we won't have a fixed fee in Summer and might find ourselves in competition for his signature with others and the fee could be higher. Alternatively we could keep him, he doesn't adjust and we have saved ourselves a lot of money. It's not just a 2 way choice is it?

[den]

McCarthy is making those I want out type of noises again though. And if I read it right, it's only to get the agreed price that we have to decide by Christmas so we could get the rest of the year out of the loan deal and then make our minds up. the question presumably is do we think it's worth paying that fee now, or risk his coming good in which case we won't have a fixed fee in Summer and might find ourselves in competition for his signature with others and the fee could be higher. Alternatively we could keep him, he doesn't adjust and we have saved ourselves a lot of money. It's not just a 2 way choice is it?

I imagine that if rovers don't take up the agreed option of signing him for £5m at the end of the year Gumboots, his club will be free, from that point on, to sell him to someone else.

So the question still stands, would you pay the fee for him in January?

[Bobby G]

Depends on what the alternatives are...

Thats the best I can put it at this moment.

[Amo]

Do we not have a player who also fits that same criteria Elijah in Brenni MaCarthy, surely Rovers arent that good to be able to afford TWO similar players.

McCarthy looks like he wants out, and there are still question marks over his form and fitness. It might be in our best interests to cash in while we have the chance. Villanueva is younger and will bring a greater profit if he can prove himself, which is the million dollar question.

[47er]

I imagine that if rovers don't take up the agreed option of signing him for £5m at the end of the year Gumboots, his club will be free, from that point on, to sell him to someone else.

So the question still stands, would you pay the fee for him in January?

I'd pay the 3M if that's the correct amount but not 5M. I'd see 3M as a worthwhile investment. The lad is still not the finished article and may never be but I'd hate him to prove me wrong with a different club.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I must admit this is a tough one for Ince. A few years ago, when we had more money, I would have said definitely sign him, but £5m is alot of money for Rovers these days - and he is far from the finished article.

However - I don't think we have seen Ince's preferred formation yet - I think he favours a lone striker with support from midfield - Carlos would fit ideally in this role.

I am hoping that Ince plays Carlos against Chelsea - he will find it tough - but he does have the sort of ability that would get us a goal out of nothing - and may surprise a few people.

I saw him against Grimsby - he shooting accuracy impressed me the most - we have only seen glimpses so far - but I think there is far more to come from him.

If I had to make a decision - I would gamble on him - he is still relatively young - and if he comes good we will have a significant talent on our hands (and you can't say that for many players we could potentially buy).

[DeadlyDirk]

Ince seems to be suggesting he is beginning to adapt and does see a future for him at the club. There is no doubt he isn't the finished article yet but I'd like to see him stay, he has shown a lot of promise when he has played. From what I've seen of him I'm surprised he hasn't featured a little more to be honest.

No doubt 5m is a lot of money for a club like us though, although perhaps that figure isn't accurate, I thought it was more around 4m. I guess we'll see what happens but I'd hate to see us turn him down only for him to turn into a star somewhere else.

[herbergeehh]

What about a poll?

Should he stay or should he go? (du-du-dudu-dududu)

[DeadlyDirk]

What about a poll?

Should he stay or should he go? (du-du-dudu-dududu)

You've got to let me know!!!!

Stay!

[DingleBaiter]

The whole Villanueva debate is a study in patience, long-sightedness & managing expectations.

Let's not forget the clamour, excitement & mania around him BEFORE he'd kicked a ball for us (based on Youtube) & after ONE game (GRIMSBY); only for him to tank in his next game against Bolton. 'Sign him up now' , 'what a star we've got' etc. people were shouting.

Was this over-expectation? Presumptuous? Or has he flattered to deceive since? The question is - what is his true level, and have we seen enough of him to judge fairly & objectively under reasonable conditions? I'd suggest not.

When JW came out and explained we'd a SOLE option on him until January, and they would take until then, some criticised this stance. However, it's looking wise now for several reasons.

Firstly, The lad had to settle (domestically, fitness, pace of game, tactically, positionally, language etc.) which can take months-look at Barry Ferguson

Secondly - commercially, it made no sense to commit to deal in September you had until January to make, especially when you'd only had a couple of occasions to judge the goods.

Lastly - plan Z. Even if Rovers don't take up the option in January, I'd suggest there's still an option at the end of the season to sign him (if they so wished); however it just won't be for a fixed price/wages as per this deal. Although this may cost more come close-season, it would save committing the money earlier and give them more time to assess.

Back to the lad's form. I always wanted to write off his first two months for settling time, so IMO the jury can start considering his form here. However, one point should be realised here - Ince has told the players he still needs a few more games to decide on his first 11, and they're all still under review. Add to that recent injuries, tactical substitutions etc, RSC injury, it's reasonable to suggest he's had a few setbacks and far from a clean slate. Given CV's lack of pace, and seemingly fluctuating fitness, as well as the type of player he is, he arguably needs concessions from other players to cover/work for him more, and we've not been able to afford him that luxury as yet. With a fully-fit (and on form) RSC I think we will see CV play his favoured second striker/hole position, rather than as a left winger, however due to Benedict crying, midfield injuries, Pedersen being dropped etc. he's not had the opportunity.

Lastly, money. Since when did we all become bean-counters, and decide a player was worth X but not Y? Especially when we're not privy to all the factors involved, more often than not it's supposition or rumour. Whilst I appreciate the club has to be careful with the finances, let's trust the people drawing a wage to stipulate what we can & can't afford hey? This is another irritation that's drawn in during the Ince reign - all of a sudden we're determining what the club should pay, and then using that for further criticism.

Just reading back on this thread shows the variance in 'knowledge' on what the deal for CV may (or may not be). So, why should people base their opinion on such 'ratty data'?

Bottom line - I think Villanueva could be a star for us, but the jury's out still, at least for a couple of months. At best he's a luxury player for us, and given Ince is always likely to be changing his line-up, we have to accept the value in him isn't as a first-teamer but as a matchwinner. If he only plays 40% of the possible match minutes for the rest of the season, yet creates goals that brings us points, THAT is what he should be judged on.

[JAL]

Looks like Rovers will be taking option Z Dingle Baiter seeing how things pan out, so far i'd say its 50/50 on wether hes signed or not.

[thenodrog]

Looks like Rovers will be taking option Z Dingle Baiter seeing how things pan out, so far i'd say its 50/50 on wether hes signed or not.

The situation should be resolved by BRFC having seen him for half a season coming to valid and fair valuation of his worth and sticking to it. If it's not enough he goes and if it's acceptable he stays. Simple!

Problem is I don't think we have anyone at the club that could entrust that task to!

[dingles staying down 4ever]

i think after reading Ince's comments he has made up his mind. He wants to sign him.

Contary to what our Maltese banker says I think the problem lies with how much money Ince has to spend in Janaury. I feel that £4-5 million will take up the majority, if not all, of the available funds and we all know there are further reinforcements required. These i think are more of a priority than a player of potential.

If the sizable transfer funds are available, then he is worth a risk as when he plays well he does the team another dimention.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I'd take the risk and sign him. He has shown glimpses of the talent he possesses and he is young so there is room/time for improvement.

After a season under his belt I can see him kick on and really prove to be a great asset to our squad.

[JAL]

Can Rovers afford to take risks, right now for me we are not in that position but we've definitley moved into an area were we are going to have to take more and more risks which isnt a good sign. This seems to reflect the state of affairs at Rovers currently which seems to be developing into one muddled mess how long can the club sustain this approach before something gives.

[RevidgeBlue]

So the question still stands, would you pay the fee for him in January?

I can see your point Den, but what do you expect for 5m these days? The next Thierry Henry?

We can't afford to sign the finished article so will have to take a punt on potential occasionally.

I think he has shown in glimpses he has enough about him to warrant the gamble. Then again, I don't see him in training every day, or know really how he is settling down to the pace of the Premiership/life in England.

Tough one.

[chileandude]

Question.

Where did you guys get that he was worth 5M? Is it because you are including wages? 5M is an awful lot to pay for a Chilean player, heck not even Vidal and Mati Fernandez were sold for that much to Leverkusen and Villarreal respectively (although their original clubs kept a small percent of the pass). Last time I checked he was worth 3M to 4M at most. 5M would be a record sale for a player from the Chilean league. The best ones usually go for 3M give and take.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Question.

Where did you guys get that he was worth 5M? Is it because you are including wages? 5M is an awful lot to pay for a Chilean player, heck not even Vidal and Mati Fernandez were sold for that much to Leverkusen and Villarreal respectively (although their original clubs kept a small percent of the pass). Last time I checked he was worth 3M to 4M at most. 5M would be a record sale for a player from the Chilean league. The best ones usually go for 3M give and take.

When we signed him on loan i am pretty sure the figure being banded about was between £3 to £4 million. Recent articles in the papers say its more like £5 million.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

When we signed him on loan i am pretty sure the figure being banded about was between £3 to £4 million. Recent articles in the papers say its more like £5 million.

Wasn't the figure was 4 million Euros?