[Archived] Blackburn Sign Chilean Superstar Carlos Villanueva

[rover6]

I would sign him, if I was Ince. He has come into a fragmented team in transition, to a new football culture and he has done reasonably well - for a 22 year old!

He can be our Eyal Berkovic, if he is given a run in the team, in his favoured position and some of the other players buck up and take some of the creativity load from him.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

I think in the next few games we will see whether Carlos will sign for us as we will be up against teams who are more to our standard rather than judging him against the likes of United, Chelsea etc.

[JAL]

You really are looking for a argument aren't you...

People dont agree with you, so you say exactly what you know is going to get an angry response. Then you can turn around and start accusing people of being silly...

In every one of Carlos's games, he has got better and better and better. He is getting used to the game. Even though he has been played way out of position for the vast majority of his games.

I said this in a topic the other day, but will repeat myself if you haven't read it.

If we allow Carlos to go, and another team in the league came in and gave him the chance, in the correct position, we could be made to look very silly indeed.

Anybody with a footballing brain and heart can see the lad has talent. You can also quite obviously see, it will take time for him to come to speed and adjust to the league. Unhelpfull inaccurate opinions such as yours should be reserved for the pub on a late sunday night in Burnley! (oh no am i being silly)

You may not like it roverfanuk but its your and others opinion of were you want Rovers to be isnt shared by myself and now and again others, iis your misrepresentation of a player that gets my goat I want the standard to be as high as possible at Ewood Park so the gound fills with fans so far the Chilean does not fit the bill.

After witnessing the Grimsby game other than a frist half 45 minute period against Boro, Villaneuva HAS NOT got better better and better you numpty. please dont try to misinform others who dont watch the games of your inaccurate opinion on a player its not constructive to the future of Blackburn Rovers and its ability to acheive further success.

JAL.

[gumboots]

You may not like it roverfanuk but its your and others opinion of were you want Rovers to be isnt shared by myself and now and again others, iis your misrepresentation of a player that gets my goat I want the standard to be as high as possible at Ewood Park so the gound fills with fans so far the Chilean does not fit the bill.

After witnessing the Grimsby game other than a frist half 45 minute period against Boro, Villaneuva HAS NOT got better better and better you numpty. please dont try to misinform others who dont watch the games of your inaccurate opinion on a player its not constructive to the future of Blackburn Rovers and its ability to acheive further success.

JAL.

Well, actually he did play reasonably well for much of the game against vastly superior opposition yesterday. Not the finished article and not conditions to suit him but he was fairly good. We don't have to decide yet so why worry? And JAL, why is it you are questioning the ambitions of other fans for our team. I want us to finish as high in the table as we possibly can. I want us to win a cup or preferably both. I want us to qualify for Europe and do well in the competition without jeopardising our league position. I want us to win the premiership. However, I am a realist and know that most of those are unlikely and in the current situation as regards the wealth of other clubs etc some are impossible. Don't try to suggest that because I am a realist I'm somehow settling for lower standards. I'm not but I equally know that the Villanuevas of this world just might be what we might have to buy in order to enable us to move upwards towards what we all want - success.

[CrazyIvan]

Villaneuva HAS NOT got better better and better you numpty.

Actually he has. He is more and more involved in play and was right up to 90 minutes yesterday. I actively watched his play and he was constantly running and working hard. He's slight and was battered about by three Chelsea players a number of times. Three of them. Do you honestly think three players would immediately mark a player if they thought he wasn't very good?

But your opinion is always right isn't it?

[JAL]

Actually he has. He is more and more involved in play and was right up to 90 minutes yesterday. I actively watched his play and he was constantly running and working hard. He's slight and was battered about by three Chelsea players a number of times. Three of them. Do you honestly think three players would immediately mark a player if they thought he wasn't very good?

But your opinion is always right isn't it?

Dont talk utter rubbish ! Open your dont use that word again eyes !

[CrazyIvan]

Dont talk utter rubbish ! Open your dont use that word again eyes !

I could reply in kind but I'll leave you with your 'opinion'.

[chileandude]

Hmm...I can understand when people say Villanueva doesn't fit with the team, but I disagree completely on WHY.

Some comments go on to say that he is not a good enough player, I differ, in fact his problem is that he is a step ahead of his teammates in the passing department. If guys like Deco played for Blackburn they would be having the same problems...would this mean Deco is a poor player? Not at all...this is very subjective.

To quote an Argeninian commentator on the last Chelsea vs Blackburn game through Fox Sports: "...Villanueva is the only one trying, he's different, speaks another football language." Perhaps this Argentinian commentator was too biased towards the South American player but he has a point when he says he speaks another football language.

I understand Villanueva has to add pace to his game and his movement without the ball...but if Blackburn want to make the most of Villanueva then the other players have to try some different moves as well...cut inside behind the defenders...switch flanks...etc. This will be Ince's job in the next few matches. Give Blackburn a little more variety in movements up front.

[JAL]

I could reply in kind but I'll leave you with your 'opinion'.

Where did you get three players marking him, I can think of him running into an area around the box with three players closing him down not three players marking him. Thats why I find it misleading what you said.

[Hughesy]

I noticed that every time he got the ball, they had much more urgency in closing him down, than they did with others. Must be a reason for that?!

[CrazyIvan]

Where did you get three players marking him, I can think of him running into an area around the box with three players closing him down not three players marking him. Thats why I find it misleading what you said.

Closing down, marking, three players. Any idea why?

[JAL]

Hmm...I can understand when people say Villanueva doesn't fit with the team, but I disagree completely on WHY.

Some comments go on to say that he is not a good enough player, I differ, in fact his problem is that he is a step ahead of his teammates in the passing department. If guys like Deco played for Blackburn they would be having the same problems...would this mean Deco is a poor player? Not at all...this is very subjective.

To quote an Argeninian commentator on the last Chelsea vs Blackburn game through Fox Sports: "...Villanueva is the only one trying, he's different, speaks another football language." Perhaps this Argentinian commentator was too biased towards the South American player but he has a point when he says he speaks another football language.

I understand Villanueva has to add pace to his game and his movement without the ball...but if Blackburn want to make the most of Villanueva then the other players have to try some different moves as well...cut inside behind the defenders...switch flanks...etc. This will be Ince's job in the next few matches. Give Blackburn a little more variety in movements up front.

The responsibility is on Ince, our team isnt suited to Carlos maybe Santa Cruz and him could play well together and forge a greater understanding remember two or three reverse passes into the Chelsea box which were sublime but our lone forward couldnt react to or just wasnt quick thinking enough to make the pass.

Carlos would be more than suited to a slower pace of game Chileandude, dont doubt his skill its just unfortunate that Rovers dont have the luxury due to weaknesses in other areas of the team to accomodate him.

Closing down, marking, three players. Any idea why?

Told you the area he was, the Chelsea midfiled either work a lot harder or cover more ground than ours when it comes to defending Pedersen got the same treatment as did Roberts, infact any Rovers player who got in the Chelsea final third did have more than one Chelsea player on their case if only we could replicate that sort of effort.

[DingleBaiter]

Disagree modes as time is running out - fast, also with Olsson he could do with being taken out of the firing line so as not to damage his confidence.

At this moment in time the team isnt strong enough to carry him we need better players who are ready and capable, just dont think Ince understands the quality that is needed.

Sorry, just choked on my Hot Vimto.

JAL - talking about confidence? Crikey, you'r the archetypal 'we're all doomed' 'end of world is nigh' merchant. Everytime I read your posts - much as I enjoy them - I can't help but think of Private Fraser in Dads Army.....

You know, the pessimistic, maudlin, miserable one who frequently moaned in any crisis (or at any time) that "we're all doomed"...

[DingleBaiter]

At £1.5 or £2 million then I think Carlos would be worth a punt. However, at £5 million he seems rather expensive. My main concern about him is that he can only really play in one position - floating behind the main striker. At the moment he is a bit of a luxury that I'm not sure we can afford. I think I would prefer the money to be spent in January on bringing in a creative midfield player and a proven striker. If we are going to survive what looks like being the tightest relegation battle since the Premiership began, we are going to need goals. At the moment I'm not sure Carlos is sufficiently at home in the English game to provide them.

There's a simple answer to the Carlos question.

Do we look more likely to score goals when he is in the side, or not. YES IMO

What's the one thing we need to do most to improve our situation. SCORE GOALS.

That's it, simple, no grey area. No tittle tattle about fees that folk are only guessing at anyway.

The MOST important thing with Carlos is to keep him for the season, and hope he settles and proves his worth; this may not mean taking up the option though. However, that's a commercial question for the suits; we need to get the football question right, and seeing him play more of his normal position yesterday show's it's really a question of settling him.

[DingleBaiter]

I think Blackburn should counter offer. 4M for Villanueva...or maybe 3M and let Audax keep a small percentage of the player.

Hey there my lil Chilean amigo, I'm sure Carlos will get the season to repay all our faith in him. However, there is another option I wouldn't put past our board, and it's a shrewd move.

The price - whatever it may be - is only like a Buy It Now price on eBay, whereby we can have him for that money (incentivised just in case other clubs see him as a hot target and want bid higher than us). However, we COULD tell them we don't fancy him and will keep the loan for the season (dependent on what the clauses are), let them sweat at the end of the season and then offer a LOWER price, gambling on there not being the interest elsewhere.

Personally, I'm not bothered how much he may be; if they think he can do a job and he's worth having, that is the only criteria. People are getting just a little precious advocating how much money we should or shouldn't spend on a player.

[JAL]

Sorry, just choked on my Hot Vimto.

JAL - talking about confidence? Crikey, you'r the archetypal 'we're all doomed' 'end of world is nigh' merchant. Everytime I read your posts - much as I enjoy them - I can't help but think of Private Fraser in Dads Army.....

You know, the pessimistic, maudlin, miserable one who frequently moaned in any crisis (or at any time) that "we're all doomed"...

The tone WILL change once the victories come along just looking for positives but i'm struggling, i'm finding it very very hard at the moment to draw

inspiration from Rovers they always say you see more in defeat than you do in victory so far cant see anything.

One up front

No natural right sided midfielder or winger

A very weak patched up central midfield

Two kids at full back starting out on their journey

A recruitment policy almost on a par with a championship club.

HELP !!!! This isnt an easy time being a Rover.

Add to the above genuine mistakes and it becomes a minefield that you can easily forget were the root cause is.

[DingleBaiter]

The tone WILL change once the victories come along just looking for positives but i'm struggling, i'm finding it very very hard at the moment to draw

inspiration from Rovers they always say you see more in defeat than you do in victory so far cant see anything.

Can we quote you on that? We want evidence, promises, commitment from you

The fact that you're admitting you will change once the victories come is a good start - at least it shows you've considered it may happen!

See, you're the embodiment of the 80/20 principle; if people spent more time focussing on the positives in life (80%) than the negative, things would be far better. I accept we need wins. Even you accept you've at least not given up on them coming. At least are play in defence and midfield is improving in some aspects, and there are plenty positives still.

Whenever I reply to your posts on here JAL, I always think I must sound like Donald Sutherland in "Kellys Heroes" whenever he's trying to pick-up the permanently depressed, negative Moriarty....

"Oddball/ME: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Moriarty/JAL: Crap! "

[JAL]

Can we quote you on that? We want evidence, promises, commitment from you

The fact that you're admitting you will change once the victories come is a good start - at least it shows you've considered it may happen!

See, you're the embodiment of the 80/20 principle; if people spent more time focussing on the positives in life (80%) than the negative, things would be far better. I accept we need wins. Even you accept you've at least not given up on them coming. At least are play in defence and midfield is improving in some aspects, and there are plenty positives still.

Whenever I reply to your posts on here JAL, I always think I must sound like Donald Sutherland in "Kellys Heroes" whenever he's trying to pick-up the permanently depressed, negative Moriarty....

"Oddball/ME: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

Moriarty/JAL: Crap! "

Trained to concentrate on the all important 20% DingleBaiter as its that that can kill you if it is allowed to manifest itself. Right now Rovers are 40/60 against if Ince could manage to get near the 80/20 mark i'd be delighted as would everybody because in football that is as successful a ratio as your ever going to get in football.

The probabilities of victory should show themselves quite clearly but obviously there are so many other variables to consider in the game of football as in the opposition, officials, suspensions, injuries, players etc.,

Was thinking of starting a new thread on the success rate of Inces signings i'd say hes achieved a 40% success rate which is far too low surely it has to be closer to 60% minimum for a club like ours how do you perceive the success of Inces signings so far DingleBaiter.

Has Ince earned the confidence of everyone at the club in signing new players I think the jury would probably be out on Ince so his next signing has to instantly successful to get fans like me around to him.

6 or 7 wins on the bounce then just read the new me

[DingleBaiter]

6 or 7 wins on the bounce then just read the new me

The problem is young man, when you're following a team that can have 6 or 7 wins on the bounce you'd be travelling up from Exeter on a coach, playing dinnertime kickoffs, parked up at Salford Quays with the inevitable megastore plassy bag stuck to your mitts

BTW, how do you get through the turnstiles at Ewood with your "The End Is Nigh" sandwich board on?

Okay, my criteria for initially assessing any new player/signing....

1. Assess why he bought him - and temper expectations accordingly.
2. Watch in the flesh at least 3 times for a sustained period in a competitive game, no less than 30 minutes.
3. Discard reserve/training appearances (yes I've seen them train!)
4. Ignore anything else said in press, on here, or verbally
5. Compare against player replaced & market cost

Robinson - was always going to be a step down from Brad. Always has been vulnerable to high balls in his career, plus added worry of drop in confidence over last season & losing goalie coach that was big factor in him coming here. Seems to have improved immensely since working with Mimms. Excellent game yesterday (probably over-performed TBH), and is starting to shout/command his area better. Possibly settled in after long getting-to-know you games where the defenders in front of him were more at fault. How many of our goals this season have been his fault? Two spring to mind where he was too busy appealing (Hull, Chelsea 1). He will learn we don't get decisions like that at Blackburn though! VERDICT - a massive plus - good business all-round. HIT

Grella - strange one, at the time. Trialling midfielders left right and centre and he just popped up, no trial - cash deal. Presume must have something about him that Ince didn't want to lose out? However, finding out he wasn't match fit at time of signing, then throwing him too early into a game that we always struggle with was a clanger. Don't think gave full account of himself - thought most wouldn't see it that way, 20/80 rule stipulates Rovers fans generally prefer to moan 80% of time! Game against Boro was excellent IMO, he showed more to his game inc some good technique and passing. However, injury caught up with him yesterday. I'm don't think he's the pudding people think he is, more of a crock - we need to write him off until he's 100% fit; we can't carry players that play that style of game if they're not - ask Sav. VERDICT - wait out, get fit, then see - hopeful. NEW BALL

Fowler - you're favourite JAL! Ince's Franny Jeffers. Old pals act, calculated gamble, or stop-gap? Almost as much of an anti-climax as appointing Ince after thinking we had Laudrup. Wasn't too impressed when heard the story, felt it was a joke (literally) - especially as he seemed to extend his deadlines to be signing him. Could only presume Ince took him to help with coaching, and as a stop-gap to see if could get his touch back, and to cover for a few months until PI had chance to get scouting, learn the Prem, speak to agents, assess his squad etc. Football wise, was pleasantly surprised with his effort against Everton and how he played, but clearly he's extremely unlikely to score goals for us, or be with us come January. How much is a Prem goal worth? IF he scores against Sunderland, and it changes our season - perhaps it may be worth whatever wages we've paid him. If after his deal expires, he's still null points I would suggest it's been a gamble that flopped, cost exceeding value. VERDICT - to date, a waste of time and effort. MISS.

Andrews - based on the vitriol levelled at this lad before he came (generally from people who'd never seen him play), there would be two schools of thought. The ones that admitted they were wrong, he wasn't that bad, and the ones who'd rather perpetuate their prejudices in a peevish way and find ways to slag him. If the lad could kick a ball straight, that would be a definite improvement on expectations it seems. Is he better than what we had? IMO we didn't have a runner midfielder (apart from Judgey) and I felt this fella would be more a squaddie than a firstie. However, I've been pleasantly surprised - judging him on his merits. He's committed (though clumsy), he works well, he's popular, he scored an important goal and could be a potential captain even. One thing he clearly isn't though, is Ince's golden child - he's had his place on merit and generally been our most consistent player, form-wise, though poor yesterday. VERDICT - HIT (grudgingly to most)

Simpson - arrived in strange circumstances, lose-lose situation it seemed. He has a fantastic season, he goes back to United. He has a poor season, they try and sell him us. Suppose we bed him, develop him, he plays well and wants to come here - it's a fair guess Ferguson will rape us or spite us. Would we have been better signing a permanent player? I thought so - mainly to keep the loan spot available for later on, but also as this was one spot we've been looking for seasons for a proper right back. Seemed strange for him not to figure as much early on in season, and he looked more an 'attacking' full back than a defender, which was the opposite to what we needed (assuming we were still after a right midfielder that is!). IMO he's had some okay-ish games, but he never strikes me as anything better than we'd have with Bert there, but then again Ince probably has other plans for Emo. VERDICT - can we judge him as an Ince signing? Probably not, seeing he was more of an opportunity. I don't think he's a duffer, but he's not great either, but for now he's a better option than young Kane and he saved us spending, so it's a SLICE.

Villanueva - Hmmm. I'm biased with this lad - folks with his talent are so rare, especially here at Ewood. Always advocated a couple of months to settle him, find his position, learn the lingo, and for the new manager to find his mojo. I'm concerned his form seems to fluctuate, as does his fitness - why? He's had a strange time of things, mainly of late as he's suffered with the Gamst falling from favour, so not played in his best position. However, I've been lucky enough to watch him many times and though his end product is frustrating at times, he is clumsy and gives the ball away cheaply, it's all worth it providing it works once-twice-whenever. I'm looking forward to seeing him play his second striker position, get longer in games (like yesterday) and get a Prem goal, I'm sure it will come good - especially as a creative force. He's suffered more than anyone with RSC being injured and off-form though. VERDICT - REBOWL, HOME RUN COMING.

Bunn - How do you judge this guy? I've seen him goal a few times, and he's not bad - promising, certainly as a second goalie to replace Brown in time. One for the future. VERDICT - BAT AGAIN NEXT SEASON.

So, what do I reckon?

One failure - Fowler (1/10)

Two wait outs (Grella & Bunn)

Two successes (Robbo & Andrews) (8 & 7)

So, even at that, it's good rather than great - though Grella could tip the scales either way. However, young Carlos is the talisman -we need to set aside whether we buy him or not, just judge him as a player. To date, he'd get 6/10 for me - classy but average. However, I'm confident he will be our matchwinner (once he scores, it will be the missing link, we need goals more than anything). IF he proves to be anything like as important and can deliver as I'm sure he will, he will be our biggest hit and Ince's most important signing.

As it stands, I'd rate our signing 1/10, 8/10, 7/10, and 6/10 - therefore 22/40. Carlos comes good, we'd be looking at 8/10.

Two provisos

1. Ince had to set up new scouting network and step up into Europe/World scouting rather than 2,3,4 divs down (shopping in M&S rather than Aldi)
2. Ince has presumably set money aside for Jan, which would be prudent - especially as he couldn't tie the RM deal up. If he gets Kightley in from Wolves, I'd be delighted.

So, I think we can grant him a bit of a latitude in his signings given the two provisos, but I agree with you that January will be the true test

[JAL]

Some good points there DingleBaiter but what about potential sell on value of any new signing surely for a club like Rovers this is a must playing a significant part in the assessment of any future transfers.

No way is Andrews a hit Dingle Baiter, hes of a lower level dont let yourself be deceived by the mangaers words i'm yet to witness anything out of the ordinary in Keith Andrews that any other professional couldnt do. A big thumbs down along with Fowler the standard has to be higher than this it has to be or we are sunk.

Grella has looked alright for me hes come in for a lot of criticism but for me hes shown a hungry desire to track down the opposition and looks like he can easily adapt to the premier league despite such a rocky start.

Back to goalkeepers would have liked to have seen Ince bring in AlHabsi from Bolton(quality) that would have made life very interesting for our Robbo.

Roll on January can we trust in Ince, I really hope so though so far nothing thats happened instills confidence in the new manager.

[Paul Mellelieu]

The MB seems to have been taken over by aliens.

[DingleBaiter]

Some good points there DingleBaiter but what about potential sell on value of any new signing surely for a club like Rovers this is a must playing a significant part in the assessment of any future transfers.

Jal, keep up the good work - we'll make you positive if it kills me!

Sell on value - interesting aspect, but this has only come into vogue since the Welshman with the grey wig was around. It's a bonus to have players that are coveted by other clubs, but it's a fine line surely? If we were only interested in profitability, chances are the club would tell us to shop cheaper for bargains?

Anyways, if we only considered potential sell-on value of assets, none of us would buy or drive cars would we? Ask Dalglish if he considered sell-on as a factor when he bought players; any manager would say it's a bonus rather than a dealbreaker.

Plus, if the cunning Academy plan works well, we'll be targeting demographics for the first team now to 18 months in our big transfer signings, relying on the Academy to bring the profits in on potential (or save transfer spending).

That's not an opening for you to wriggle in slagging the Academy; I know your game by now! Hold your tongue (and fingers) grasshopper

Ref Andrews - as said previously, make my own mind up, don't let Ince's jibber-jabber sway anything. Chelsea apart, Andrews has looked far from the pudding everyone was predicting, in fact he's been our most consistent performer, up there with Warnock the midfielder at least on consistency.

The MB seems to have been taken over by aliens.

Maybe they changed your mates ticket?

[philipl]

My recollection is the deal for Villanueva is:

£1m loan fee

£1m wages

£3m to sign him permanently

£5m total of which £3m is the decision Rovers need to take.

[LeChuck]

Anyways, if we only considered potential sell-on value of assets, none of us would buy or drive cars would we? Ask Dalglish if he considered sell-on as a factor when he bought players; any manager would say it's a bonus rather than a dealbreaker.

Sorry DB, you've made some good points but this one is completely wrong. It should the first thing we consider when shelling out any money for a player, we have no choice if we want to be self-sustaining and competitive. It was fine in the days of Dalglish to ignore this somewhat because Jack Walker was there with all the cash, but we don't have that any more. Having said that, look at the age of his signings and there could be a basis of an argument suggesting that Dalglish did think about this, even at that time.

Need some proof? It's the way Arsene Wenger openly admits to operating his transfer business. From the bottom of that article:

"The problems with players who are 27, 28 is that you pay big money but you get nothing back, no resale."

That's why I'm really annoyed we paid so much for 29 year old Grella. The above statement should be nailed to Paul Ince's office door, his bathroom mirror, and anywhere else he frequents. It's absolutely vital for the future of the club as a competitive Premier League side that the re-sale value of every single signing is taken into account.

[philipl]

I totally agree LeChuck.

Every transfer will be looked at as a business proposition and re-sale or residual value will always play a part.

The Grella purchase is probably not helping Paul Ince at this point.