[Archived] Fans' Forum 22/7/08

[only2garners]

Here are some of the key points form the latest Fans' Forum, held on 22/7/08. If you wish to discuss any particular item, I suggest you use the relevant thread rather than post on here, otherwise it will get very cluttered. If there isn't one, start it!

1. Takeover. There are currently 2 expressions of interest that Rothschilds are dealing with, but these are at a very early stage. To date no bidder has got anywhere near a due diligence stage, despite what you might have read. The Trust would still like to sell, but only to someone who will "preserve Jack's legacy". Since Jack's death the Trust have invested over £40m in the club.

2. The Forum suggested at the last meeting that we would like to see a return of the meet the fans sessions with the management team. The club are also keen to do this but it's won't happen soon - Paul Ince needs to settle in and he won't have much spare time for a while as the two international breaks will be taken up with his coaching badge course.

3. The club had been delighted with the response to the Early Bird offer but sales around the Claim Your Seat deadline had not been as good as hoped. There have been new applications but the club were still some 2,000 short of the target for season ticket sales. The club’s target is to sell the same number of season tickets as for 07/08, given that those sales were on the back of a 25% price reduction. This is challenging given the credit crunch and the uncertainty caused by management changes at the club.

4. Details of the club’s loyalty scheme will be announced during the early part of the season.

5. Online retail operation should be up and running on Thursday i.e. today, to coincide with the launch of away strip sales.

6. LED advertising screens have been installed along the "TV profile" i.e. along the Fraser Eagle touchline and up to the back of each goal.

7. The club were keen to follow up the Forum's proposal for a club for overseas fans (which came from a suggestion on here). As soon as the season ticket sales were complete, the club would develop a plan.

[RevidgeBlue]

Here are some of the key points form the latest Fans' Forum, held on 22/7/08. If you wish to discuss any particular item, I suggest you use the relevant thread rather than post on here, otherwise it will get very cluttered. If there isn't one, start it!

3. The club had been delighted with the response to the Early Bird offer but sales around the Claim Your Seat deadline had not been as good as hoped. There have been new applications but the club were still some 2,000 short of the target for season ticket sales. The club’s target is to sell the same number of season tickets as for 07/08, given that those sales were on the back of a 25% price reduction. This is challenging given the credit crunch and the uncertainty caused by management changes at the club.

I think what was said on that was that we were only a few hundred down on overall numbers from this time last year but around 2000 existing S/T holders have yet to renew.Too early to be too definite though given that a couple of good signings may boost numbers and a lot of people tend to leave it until the last minute to renew anyway etc.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

3. The club had been delighted with the response to the Early Bird offer but sales around the Claim Your Seat deadline had not been as good as hoped. There have been new applications but the club were still some 2,000 short of the target for season ticket sales. The club’s target is to sell the same number of season tickets as for 07/08, given that those sales were on the back of a 25% price reduction. This is challenging given the credit crunch and the uncertainty caused by management changes at the club.

As I feared given the ever increasing uncertainty around the club at present,looks like we will do very well to even match last seasons sales as 2000 needed sales in 23 days seems a hell of a lot to ask for.

Clearly illustrates the problems the club faces with a limited fanbase even with cheap tickets....damned if they do damned if they dont

[only2garners]

I think what was said on that was that we were only a few hundred down on overall numbers from this time last year but around 2000 existing S/T holders have yet to renew.Too early to be too definite though given that a couple of good signings may boost numbers and a lot of people tend to leave it until the last minute to renew anyway etc.

My notes did indicate that but Tom asked to change the minute to read as I posted i.e. we are currently 2,000 away from the target. As it's a bit more pessimistic than your post I can only presume it's correct. Of course we can also only be a few hundred down on this time last year as well.

Your second sentence is undoubtedly true - the club will expect more sales between now and the first home game but I did get the impression that they felt matching last year would be tough given economic conditions.

[RevidgeBlue]

As I feared given the ever increasing uncertainty around the club at present....looks like we will do very well to even match last seasons sales.

Clearly illustrates the problems the club faces with a limited fanbase even with cheap tickets....damned if they do damned if they dont

There is always a natural "churn" of some people dropping off, and some new people applying for the first time.

We could hardly have had a worse summer for S/T sales with Hughes leaving and the antics of certain players. If we match last season's figure it will be a very good effort imo.

[only2garners]

As I feared given the ever increasing uncertainty around the club at present....looks like we will do very well to even match last seasons sales.

Clearly illustrates the problems the club faces with a limited fanbase even with cheap tickets....damned if they do damned if they dont

The fact is that the club's target is to match last year's sales. When you think about it that seems a realistic target when you take into account the 25% price reduction last year, the credit crunch and all the management changes at the club over the summer.

[RevidgeBlue]

My notes did indicate that but Tom asked to change the minute to read as I posted i.e. we are currently 2,000 away from the target. As it's a bit more pessimistic than your post I can only presume it's correct. Of course we can also only be a few hundred down on this time last year as well.

Your second sentence is undoubtedly true - the club will expect more sales between now and the first home game but I did get the impression that they felt matching last year would be tough given economic conditions.

Ah, ok, I took what was said to mean that overall, we were only a few hundred behind last season's overall final figure. I suppose it might have been that that we are a few hundred down on the same stage last year.

Must have been one hell of a late rush last year if that's the case though!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Wonder how other local clubs like Bolton and Wigan are doing in comparison with ST sales......Zulu?

[Hughesy]

2000 not renewed? Do they have figures on previous years to show how many have renewed in the last 4 weeks prior to the season? Surely they can do some sort of projection based on that?

Just a note: Last season we sold - 15,316

A couple of signings should boost sales

[RevidgeBlue]

2000 not renewed? Do they have figures on previous years to show how many have renewed in the last 4 weeks prior to the season? Surely they can do some sort of projection based on that?

Just a note: Last season we sold - 15,316

A couple of signings should boost sales

Errrr....................... yes, yes, yes and yes.

Although any prediction at this stage would be a fairly pointless exercise.

[Hughesy]

It would be interesting to see how many we usually sell in the last 4 weeks, it would give us some sort of estimate.

[JAL]

3. The club had been delighted with the response to the Early Bird offer but sales around the Claim Your Seat deadline had not been as good as hoped. There have been new applications but the club were still some 2,000 short of the target for season ticket sales. The club’s target is to sell the same number of season tickets as for 07/08, given that those sales were on the back of a 25% price reduction. This is challenging given the credit crunch and the uncertainty caused by management changes at the club.

Lets face it, less than 20% on this site were excited at the appointment of Paul Ince, since his appointment hes done nothing so far to turn heads that will get everyone excited about the forth coming season, as he.

2000 less now how many come next season if this ones a messy one.

[only2garners]

2000 not renewed? Do they have figures on previous years to show how many have renewed in the last 4 weeks prior to the season? Surely they can do some sort of projection based on that?

Just a note: Last season we sold - 15,316

A couple of signings should boost sales

there is always a last minute rush - some people just hold on to their money until the last minute. The club can predict what many ST holders will do from their previous behaviour but this year there are a higher than usual number of first year ST holders as there were many new people last year and they obviously don't know how many of them will come in at the last minute.

[ace]

Thanks for the update.

[BiggusLaddus]

Don't wish to be rude, but is that all that was asked?

I would have thought there were far more pressing matters to discuss than season ticket sales so far.

We have lost our entire backroom staff and replaced them with mostly 4th division staff. We are in the process of selling two of our three best players, with mounting speculation over the third. Replacements so far? Robbie Fowler on trial, maybe Paul Robinson, a promisin but unknown Chilean (if he actually arrives, see Castillo) and lots of rumours about Keith Andrews.

I would have thought this represented an ideal opportunity to request assurances from the club that we are actually trying to progress from last year and are not embarking on a fund raising/cost cutting exercise.

The fact that season tickets are not doing aswell as expected is not the big story of the summer so far, it is just a symptom of the largely negative news that we have been getting and a lack of optimism for the coming season.

[Frisky Jim]

Don't wish to be rude, but is that all that was asked?

I would have thought there were far more pressing matters to discuss than season ticket sales so far.

We have lost our entire backroom staff and replaced them with mostly 4th division staff. We are in the process of selling two of our three best players, with mounting speculation over the third. Replacements so far? Robbie Fowler on trial, maybe Paul Robinson, a promisin but unknown Chilean (if he actually arrives, see Castillo) and lots of rumours about Keith Andrews.

I would have thought this represented an ideal opportunity to request assurances from the club that we are actually trying to progress from last year and are not embarking on a fund raising/cost cutting exercise.

The fact that season tickets are not doing aswell as expected is not the big story of the summer so far, it is just a symptom of the largely negative news that we have been getting and a lack of optimism for the coming season.

Those are the points I would have raised too. Mind you, I imagine that the answers would have been vague...

Regarding season ticket sales though, it seems that the board have tried to pull a fast one with the early-bird scheme: get supporters to renew before Hughes and our best players left. They should be questioned on that, especially as Williams admitted he thought that Hughes would leave this Summer.

At least we have a new club shop though.

[thenodrog]

Regarding season ticket sales though, it seems that the board have tried to pull a fast one with the early-bird scheme: get supporters to renew before Hughes and our best players left. They should be questioned on that, especially as Williams admitted he thought that Hughes would leave this Summer.

Dead right.... we've been led up the garden path. BUT on the one hand the cheap ST's are obviously not working as I think we all suspected. Daft as it seems but once the discounted price is seen as the norm it soon becomes expensive again!

On the plus side it must be said that at least the ST's are still cheap enough to chuck at the directors box before October's out!

[thenodrog]

Here are some of the key points form the latest Fans' Forum, held on 22/7/08. If you wish to discuss any particular item, I suggest you use the relevant thread rather than post on here, otherwise it will get very cluttered. If there isn't one, start it!

1. Takeover. There are currently 2 expressions of interest that Rothschilds are dealing with, but these are at a very early stage. To date no bidder has got anywhere near a due diligence stage, despite what you might have read. The Trust would still like to sell, but only to someone who will "preserve Jack's legacy". Since Jack's death the Trust have invested over £40m in the club.

That equates to about the same input as 4 seasons with Mark Hughes in charge then!!!

and

Just goes to show my fears have now become dark reality about not rewarding Hughes and his team financially for his excellence in making such a financial and playing success of our club. We have lost a diamond and replaced him with a lump of coal!

Those that criticised my suggestions out of hand will have a long time now to reflect on the consequences.

[only2garners]

Don't wish to be rude, but is that all that was asked?

I would have thought there were far more pressing matters to discuss than season ticket sales so far.

We have lost our entire backroom staff and replaced them with mostly 4th division staff. We are in the process of selling two of our three best players, with mounting speculation over the third. Replacements so far? Robbie Fowler on trial, maybe Paul Robinson, a promisin but unknown Chilean (if he actually arrives, see Castillo) and lots of rumours about Keith Andrews.

I would have thought this represented an ideal opportunity to request assurances from the club that we are actually trying to progress from last year and are not embarking on a fund raising/cost cutting exercise.

The fact that season tickets are not doing aswell as expected is not the big story of the summer so far, it is just a symptom of the largely negative news that we have been getting and a lack of optimism for the coming season.

The Fans' Forum does not discuss playing matters. It's designed as a way for the club to get the opinions of a range of fans on other matters. A meet the fans session with the manager and his team will be the place to talk about the issues you mention.

[RevidgeBlue]

BUT on the one hand the cheap ST's are obviously not working as I think we all suspected.

How do you work that one out Gordon?

If the tickets hadn't been discounted last season, we'd have sold considerably less back then, and if they were more expensive now as well, we'd have an even bigger shortfall against what would have been a considerably lower target figure!

[only2garners]

It's certainly worked last season, but there is always a danger if someone gets used to something being a particular price. Think of it as petrol prices - if prices shot down to 100p per litre tomorrow we'd all be jumping for joy because the price has gone down. The danger with what Rovers have done is they've reduced the monetary value of a season ticket and I think this may backfire once they see a need to raise the prices again.

But they have already put them up 10%. Many of us took the chance to buy early at last year's prices but if you go along now they will be 10% more expensive than last year. Still cheaper than 2 seasons ago granted...

[RevidgeBlue]

Don't wish to be rude, but is that all that was asked?

I would have thought there were far more pressing matters to discuss than season ticket sales so far.

We have lost our entire backroom staff and replaced them with mostly 4th division staff. We are in the process of selling two of our three best players, with mounting speculation over the third. Replacements so far? Robbie Fowler on trial, maybe Paul Robinson, a promisin but unknown Chilean (if he actually arrives, see Castillo) and lots of rumours about Keith Andrews.

I would have thought this represented an ideal opportunity to request assurances from the club that we are actually trying to progress from last year and are not embarking on a fund raising/cost cutting exercise.

The fact that season tickets are not doing aswell as expected is not the big story of the summer so far, it is just a symptom of the largely negative news that we have been getting and a lack of optimism for the coming season.

Of course it wasn't - it really does annoy me when people don't credit anyone on the Forum with an ounce of intelligence.

Usually strictly footballing matters are off the agenda but it has been customary in the past for JW to come in and give his general thoughts on the footballing side and way forward whenever there has been a change of manager.

He kindly agreed to do so again and was exceptionally frank on the subject of Ince/players leaving/potential takeover.

I hope I'm not giving anything too sensitive away but all the points you raise were discussed and answered frankly by JW.

Bentley wanted to go when Hughes was here.

Villa offered Friedel a lot more more than we can if we're being sensible.

The owners never put us under any pressure to sell players, and we don't need to sell anyone.

As regards players coming in, you have to back the manager's judgement.

I actually asked JW if he was comfortable with the level of backroom staff and he said "yes, there's 4 and a half extra", - in fact a lot of the changes were apparently suggested to and agreed with the manager on the basis of our past experiences. However it was Ince's innovation to bring in a specialist defensive coach.

Lots more interesting stuff too. I can assure you we don't just all sit there and say nothing.

[ace]

Lots more interesting stuff too. I can assure you we don't just all sit there and say nothing.

You going to give us an "11 o'clocker " then rev?

[RevidgeBlue]

You going to give us an "11 o'clocker " then rev?

Steady, you've had more than you maybe should already!

[Frisky Jim]

Dead right.... we've been led up the garden path. BUT on the one hand the cheap ST's are obviously not working as I think we all suspected. Daft as it seems but once the discounted price is seen as the norm it soon becomes expensive again!

On the plus side it must be said that at least the ST's are still cheap enough to chuck at the directors box before October's out!

I think that Williams' attempts to deceive the support was an absolute disgrace. How he and his cronies had the brass-neck to claim that 'football is for fans' whilst knowing that the product would be inferior, and then bumping the price up by 10% anyway, is absolutely disgusting.

He is guilty of treating the supporters with contempt. So I'm going to treat him with contempt as well.