[Archived] Paul Robinson

[tony gale's mic]

Why is that absolute rubbish? A model professional? Hmmm that is what I thought too? Until you brought it to light that he held Ince by his neck. That is not a very professional thing to do. Regardless of the situation.

None of us know any of the facts.

It seems more likely that Brad must have instructed his agent to find him a new club when he knew Ince was joining. That seems more plausible. Personally I don't think it's professional to pretend to all the Blackburn fans that it was nothing to do with Ince when it was. It would only make sense to hide it if Friedel was the one with the problem. Which would also explain why Ince said he wasn't going anywhere.

I just can't get the idea that Ince came in and decided Brad should leave. I could imagine them both deciding together it was for the best. Maybe they both agreed they couldn't work with each other. A lot of criticism levelled at Ince was that he was too "pally" with the players. So I can't see on one hand him being pally with the players and on the other hand a strict authoritarian who refused to work with Friedel, and immediately stamped his authority on the squad.

Maybe it happened like this:

Friedel becomes aware of Villa interest. He is putting his feelers out because Hughes has left and sees the club on a downward slope.

Paul Ince joins and says Friedel isn't going anywhere

Villa make bid after Friedel tells agent he doesn't want to work with Paul Ince

They agree together to make it sound like there is no problem (Friedel colluding to keep the story quiet is not very professional) fearing either side could be make to look like the villian.

He agrees to wait until we sign a new keeper.

That is just as feasible as the "truth" that is being put out on here.

Ince was a bad manager for Blackburn Rovers there is no doubt about that, but that is not the same as every decision Paul Ince made while he was the manager was a bad one and to the detriment of the club.

That's all very well and good, but your version is speculation based on what you think may have happened, whereas the other version, although I can't say for 100% if is true or not, at least comes from someone who has a consistent track record of correctly informing us of stuff that has happened behind the scenes. So for that reason I would say it's entirely fair and reasonable for folks to believe his version.

[thenodrog]

I think Bentley would have suled and played badly if he was made to stay Den. I'd have a much dimmer view of our tragicaly sacked (sic) former boss if the Friedel stories Nicko mentioned were true.

Absolutely impossible for me to agree with you there Billy.

As for Bentley, could he afford to have sulked when he was so well placed in the England set up. He's out of it now of course but when he moved he was right in there.

The 'history' between Brad and Ince was a bad feeling between them at Liverpool. At one point the big chap had his mouthy team-mate by the throat - that was referred to a few weeks back and must have gone over some heads.

I may be way off but something in the far back of my mind seems to suggest talk of an insult or an issue by Ince towards Brads missus at that time.

[Billy Castell]

Absolutely impossible for me to agree with you there Billy.

As for Bentley, could he afford to have sulked when he was so well placed in the England set up. He's out of it now of course but when he moved he was right in there.

The (sic) was in relation to the term 'tragically sacked', rather than any terrible spelling I may have performed. I assume that you can use (sic) when you write a statement that is intentionally false or a quote that is false, as well as intentional spelling/grammatical mistakes when quoting someone.

Logically, you are right about Bentley, but footballers are rarely logical, calculating and mature about such matters.

[RevidgeBlue]

However - and I have never mentioned this before - Ince was telling people just BEFORE he had the job that he didn't fancy Brad and would be looking for a replacement.

Sorry, I don't believe that for a second. If you knew something that sensational, why on earth would you you only mention it now?

Secondly in the summer I clearly remember you saying you thought it was strange we were being linked with other keepers. You seemed to be genuinely mystified, which if you genuinely were in possession of a piece of information like that, you wouldn't have been. (so mystified)

[Fylde Coast Fan]

Sorry, I don't believe that for a second. If you knew something that sensational, why on earth would you you only mention it now?

Secondly in the summer I clearly remember you saying you thought it was strange we were being linked with other keepers. You seemed to be genuinely mystified, which if you genuinely were in possession of a piece of information like that, you wouldn't have been. (so mystified)

... unless nicko didn't find out about it until after, in which case it makes perfect sense.

[philipl]

Sorry, I don't believe that for a second. If you knew something that sensational, why on earth would you you only mention it now?

Secondly in the summer I clearly remember you saying you thought it was strange we were being linked with other keepers. You seemed to be genuinely mystified, which if you genuinely were in possession of a piece of information like that, you wouldn't have been. (so mystified)

My recollection is that nicko was saying Friedel was going almost the moment Ince was appointed. Like everyone else my reaction was shock and disbelief to the extent I totally discounted the stories. Nicko persisted and then it eventually happened after Robinson was signed.

[BuckyRover]

But there is nothing in that to suggest that is Ince's doing.

It is far more likely that Friedel didn't like the sound of working under Ince. In that situation Ince needed Friedel far more than Friedel needed Ince.

It doesn't make sense. Ince suggested to Friedel he should make his availability known to Villa? Did Ince ring Villa himself?

Villa knew he wanted to leave. He must have made it clear. Ince didn't transfer list him. If he felt so strongly why do it in secret? If Friedel and Ince have such a problem with each other why has it been kept secret? Why are they doing favours for each other if there is bad blood?

[tony gale's mic]

But there is nothing in that to suggest that is Ince's doing.

It is far more likely that Friedel didn't like the sound of working under Ince. In that situation Ince needed Friedel far more than Friedel needed Ince.

It doesn't make sense. Ince suggested to Friedel he should make his availability known to Villa? Did Ince ring Villa himself?

Villa knew he wanted to leave. He must have made it clear. Ince didn't transfer list him. If he felt so strongly why do it in secret? If Friedel and Ince have such a problem with each other why has it been kept secret? Why are they doing favours for each other if there is bad blood?

Whatever the situation, it's highly unlikely most players, let alone a man like Friedel, would come out slagging off the manager. It's not about doing favours for each other, it's about being professional.

Nicko's information isn't 100% correct always granted, since he relies on sources, but more often than not it's right...whereas you're just speculating. I know which one is more likely.

[BuckyRover]

How about this for a different theory? Fed up with the continual lack of investment at Blackburn and annoyed at the fact Hughes had been driven away due to this, Friedel became disillusioned with the club, and when Ince was announced as manager (his arch nemesis, obviously) he got his agent to make noises regarding Ince being in the market for a different goalkeeper (Ince initially said he was not after a goalkeeper), which destablised Ince's position as manager and made it apparent that Blackburn could be looking to cash in on their keeper. No need to hand in a transfer request, Ince feels the fans wrath for selling a major team member and Friedel walks away with a doubled wage.

Highly unlikely but just as valid as saying "Ince was already talking to 'people' (who obviously run to the nearest journalist) about how he is going to get rid of Friedel, before he even joined the club". We can't prove that wrong can we? It just makes it appear more valid. I'm surprised he didn't go the whole hog and say "a source close to Paul Ince revealed...."

nicko has been wrong before (Hughes to Chelsea?).

He works for a red top newspaper! Its his job to never be proven wrong, but that doesn't mean it has to be correct.

[RevidgeBlue]

Nicko's information isn't 100% correct always granted, since he relies on sources, but more often than not it's right...whereas you're just speculating. I know which one is more likely.

Friedel was not allowed to leave until the signing of Robinson was secured.

That to me smacks far more of Friedel leaving against Ince's and the Club's wishes than of Ince not fancying Friedel and wanting to see the back of him.

He'd just have offloaded him without worrying too much about the replacement if the latter was true wouldn't he?.

In this particular case I'll also prefer John Williams' face to face insistence that Friedel leaving was nothing whatsoever to do with Ince over nicko suddenly volunteering an earthshattering piece of hearsay five months on.

[tony gale's mic]

How about this for a different theory? Fed up with the continual lack of investment at Blackburn and annoyed at the fact Hughes had been driven away due to this, Friedel became disillusioned with the club, and when Ince was announced as manager (his arch nemesis, obviously) he got his agent to make noises regarding Ince being in the market for a different goalkeeper (Ince initially said he was not after a goalkeeper), which destablised Ince's position as manager and made it apparent that Blackburn could be looking to cash in on their keeper. No need to hand in a transfer request, Ince feels the fans wrath for selling a major team member and Friedel walks away with a doubled wage.

Highly unlikely but just as valid as saying "Ince was already talking to 'people' (who obviously run to the nearest journalist) about how he is going to get rid of Friedel, before he even joined the club". We can't prove that wrong can we? It just makes it appear more valid. I'm surprised he didn't go the whole hog and say "a source close to Paul Ince revealed...."

nicko has been wrong before (Hughes to Chelsea?).

He works for a red top newspaper! Its his job to never be proven wrong, but that doesn't mean it has to be correct.

Well he never once said Hughes was joining Chelsea, he said that Kenyon wanted Hughes and that he was a candidate. Which would seem to tally with what happened in the summer. A short time after Grant was removed (and a fair while before the appointment) nicko said Scolari was a leading name in the frame and that it would be him or Hughes, I put £30 on him at around 9/1 and made almost £200 profit from it...so I should know he was actually giving good tips about the Chelsea post.

And if your scenario was backed up by something you'd heard, and if you'd broken numerous pieces of Rovers news to the board with a high success rate, and it was at odds with nicko's, then we'd listen to yours just as much as nicko's and it'd be reasonable to say we shouldn't draw conclusions.

But fact is people are going to believe the most likely story, and when Friedel leaving in the first place seemed quite strange, when he seemed perfectly happy while Hughes was here and then when we have nicko who's been much more right than wrong telling us this story, I'd say it's the most reasonable conclusion to come to that his story is the closest to what actually happened.

[SouthAussieRover]

Best to remember that not all stories are the truth though.

Especially when the storyteller is a journalist

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Does it really matter? Both Brad and Ince have long since departed. Time to move on.

[American]

And if your scenario was backed up by something you'd heard, and if you'd broken numerous pieces of Rovers news to the board with a high success rate, and it was at odds with nicko's, then we'd listen to yours just as much as nicko's and it'd be reasonable to say we shouldn't draw conclusions.

My knowledge is from someone who works for the club and has never, as far as I can tell, been used to plant false information to make the club look good. In fact, Lee rarely ever comments on rumors and speculation about the club. My guess is that the story is true, and he was given permission to bring it to light.

Remember, Nicko has been right about a lot of things, but wrong about a lot, as well. But hey, believe him over John Williams and Lee Grooby.

[philipl]

In retrospect, there has been newspeak from the club on other matters, and nicko posted almost immediately after Ince's appointment that Brad was a likely leaver to complete opprobrium from other posters.

The reasons why and the timing thereof all came out later.

I personally desperately hope there was no knowledge of Villa's intent on the part of Brad before that game at St Andrew's.

[T4E]

Sorry, I don't believe that for a second. If you knew something that sensational, why on earth would you you only mention it now?

Secondly in the summer I clearly remember you saying you thought it was strange we were being linked with other keepers. You seemed to be genuinely mystified, which if you genuinely were in possession of a piece of information like that, you wouldn't have been. (so mystified)

He isn't only mentioning it now - he mentioned this to me back in the Summer, I still have the PMs to prove it.

My knowledge is from someone who works for the club and has never, as far as I can tell, been used to plant false information to make the club look good. In fact, Lee rarely ever comments on rumors and speculation about the club. My guess is that the story is true, and he was given permission to bring it to light.

Remember, Nicko has been right about a lot of things, but wrong about a lot, as well. But hey, believe him over John Williams and Lee Grooby.

Never heard of the "party line"? There is plenty of previous evidence of the club not telling the whole truth in public for the sake what they perceive as the good of the club.

I don't believe for a second that you're naive enough to think that we can take everything the club says in public as gospel.

[Scotty]

I don't believe for a second that you're naive enough to think that we can take everything the club says in public as gospel.

But you seem to be naive enough to believe everything a tabloid journalist tells you?

[T4E]

Not at all - but you do judge the source before you judge the information - and his strike rate is excellent.

He said that Brad would go BEFORE Ince was confirmed. He said he would go to Villa and not Man City as some others suggested. He said that we were looking at Robinson or Carson. he said we wouldn't let Brad go until Robinson signed.

It all panned out exactly as he said it would. Yet some people still refuse to accept it.

[Hughesy]

Not at all - but you do judge the source before you judge the information - and his strike rate is excellent.

I too back that up. How many tips does he have to give before people trust his info???

[Scotty]

Not at all - but you do judge the source before you judge the information - and his strike rate is excellent.

He said that Brad would go BEFORE Ince was confirmed. He said he would go to Villa and not Man City as some others suggested. He said that we were looking at Robinson or Carson. he said we wouldn't let Brad go until Robinson signed.

It all panned out exactly as he said it would. Yet some people still refuse to accept it.

But it's exactly the same argument in reverse isn't it? You say you don't believe that Lee was telling the truth because he's got an agenda and is towing the Rovers company line, but you refuse to accept that people don't always believe Nicko or believe that he has an agenda.

As I know Lee personally, and he's never lied to me yet, I'll believe him. However, you are of course entitled to your own opinion.

[T4E]

I don't expect people to always believe Nicko. Lets treat each individual case on its own merits.

In this case, I laid out my reasons for believing Nicko above - he got all of those steps right BEFORE they happened.

To clarify once more - I don't accuse Lee of lying or anything else of that sort. I'm sure he was told by someone, who was told by someone, etc, that Brad had put a transfer request in. I don't know where that orignated from and wont speculate on it - but I've given good reasons as to why I don't believe that it's true.

[BuckyRover]

In retrospect, there has been newspeak from the club on other matters, and nicko posted almost immediately after Ince's appointment that Brad was a likely leaver to complete opprobrium from other posters.

The reasons why and the timing thereof all came out later.

I personally desperately hope there was no knowledge of Villa's intent on the part of Brad before that game at St Andrew's.

If I had known that they had fought at Liverpool, then I could also have made that assumption. It is not the same as INCE FORCED HIM OUT.

But I could have easily said "Paul Ince told me he was going to force him out" and nobody would have believed me. But if I worked for The Mirror you would believe me??? Are you mad?? Have you ever read that paper??

What is his agenda? He is not our friend. Why does he log on all the time? Social justice? Letting the truth come out? He creates stories. IT IS HIS JOB.

[Manchester Blue]

I too back that up. How many tips does he have to give before people trust his info???

It's not about that though, he has given may excellent tips. He's also given plenty that haven't turned out correct. The fact is though that many such as the Ten Caat one cannot be proven either way. Almost every tabloid journalist, if not all journalists will have an agenda at times and will tailor stories accordingly. That isn't a criticism of Nicko it is simply the way it works and understndably so.

[BuckyRover]

Exactly. He just makes it appear like he was right in the first place. There is nothing to suggest that Hughes was EVER in the running for the Chelsea job. Nicko just made it appear that way. It cannot be proven either way. I haven't heard a single professional in the game, suggest that Hughes was ever in the running.

Yet everybody on here feels like they were privy to some exciting information that only a change in circumstances prevented what we were told happening.

If Scolari hadn't already accepted the job previously, then why had Boswinga already signed? A coincidence? It can't be proven though so Hughes was obviously in the running...

It very much reminds me of Gordon Brown and his magical economy; build up a reputation (making a big deal out of the things that you got correct whilst ensuring that nothing can be proven wrong), and before long you have NEVER been wrong and everybody believes anything you say.

[philipl]

Now this getting far fetched even by your standards Bucky.

I stuck Mark Hughes Chelsea Manager into Google just now and was overwhelmed by the number of hits. Every newspaper, Sky and the BBC were carrying pieces about Hughes and the Chelsea job.

Interestingly, Sparky was STILL 2/1 favourite for Stamford Bridge with the bookies even after he had gone to 1/5 on for the City job after it was disclosed Rovers had given City permission to talk to him!