[Archived] Paul Robinson

[American]

The first Robbo save yesterday was magnificent. But as I've said previously, the combination of the fact he still hasn't produced a single match winning performance this season

He had a magnificent save in a 1 goal match yet he hasn't produced a single match winning performance? Boy do you contradict yourself with those 2 sentences.

[thenodrog]

In an innovative move, the 26-year-old admitted that watching Spurs players take spot-kicks on goalkeeping coach Eric Steele's iPod after extra-time had helped him during the penalty shoot-out.

Makes you wonder what might have happened if we had been able to hang on to Eric Steele instead of trading him in for an inexperienced full back. Sickening that MU are reaping the benefits. Bringing Eric Steele in was probably one of the better things to happen during the Ince tenure. Add to that the great run Van Der Sar is (still) on...

Connected or just coincidence?

[Jan]

He had a magnificent save in a 1 goal match yet he hasn't produced a single match winning performance? Boy do you contradict yourself with those 2 sentences.

Both the good saves Robbo made yesterday had already been flagged for offside, so he's absolutely correct. All the rest was bread and butter.

[modes98]

Robbo out for a month, Shoulder ligament damage.

I would start with Bunn, he has been putting in the performances for Leicester.

[Hughesy]

Didnt Bunn make two mistakes in Leicesters game at the weekend?

[tony gale's mic]

I'm sure you'll say its nonsense, but perhaps you could back that up with some personal experience/qualified statement? Just so you know I have moved abroad twice (so have been a person who doesn't have clue whats being said as I can't keep up), also we get 100's of forgein students coming here and they still struggle after over a year or so, its not easy.

I take it you have plenty of experience with people who come to this country and can't communicate, its not as easy as you think, trust me. Accents, local colloquialisms and so on all make it very hard if your armed with school learnt English, even the scandinavians struggle as do the europeans (we have a lot of french and dutch people at our uni).

"any keeper coming from abroad" was used as a general statement, you'll notice the quality of the football in the countries you suggest is not the best.

The point I made was that the defensive unit has to gel and they had less than a month to do it, don't you think it would be easier/better if the keeper speaks English fluently as opposed to using an interpretor or demonstration? one less hurdle?

If you really don't think that having English as a fluent language is not important given the timescale to the start of the season, then thats up to you. Communication is not important in football is it?

You did not use Brad and John as an example you made a point of bracketing that filan was better in your opinion, thats called comparing people, just so you know.

I've been travelling a lot and met lots of folk from different countries - by and large Dutch/Scandinavians/Northern Europeans (excluding the French who are a real mixed bag in this dept) speak excellent English. They get taught it at school from a very young age, hell I don't think I've met one who hasn't been able to speak fluent English. I'm guessing the countries where you lived, you weren't taught those languages from when you were 5 or 6 years old. The quality of football I suggested in those countries mightn't be the best, but Australia and the States have produced some very good keepers over the years. USA: Brad, Kasey Keller, Tim Howard etc, Aus: John Filan, Mark Schwarzer, Zeljko Kalac. Canada maybe not so much but they've had some decent players recently in other positions.

It may be one less hurdle but like I said, there's a massive amount of players to choose from who could still have fulfilled that requirement of being able to speak fluent English.

Sorry but using Ronaldo and Vidic as examples of un knowns, is perhaps not the best. Both where very well known about long before they signed for United maybe not in this country but anyone who follows even europe from a distance should have heard about them. You don't seem to apprieciatte the circumstances we as a club had, any new keeper would have to slot straight in, gel instantly and not be a risk financially. The only other realsitic option was Carson, TBH.

Yes I do say "so who would you have bought" but I like to offer solutions when I see problems. I've even gone as far to speak with the chairman over our academy (my bone of contention), perhaps you should go discuss Robbo with him?

Really, Ronaldo and Vidic would've been that well known? Ronaldo maybe, but at the end of the day he was still a very promising 18 year old in the Portugese league. Man Utd paid considerably more for both Anderson and Nani and I'd say a transfer fee is a fair reflection of how much hype is built around a young player at a particular time. Vidic was plying his trade at Spartak Moscow. They had no significant European campaigns during that time so the only fans who would've noticed him were either fans who followed the Russian league closely or fans that followed Serbia's World Cup qualifying campaign closely. I don't think many fans would've fallen into either category. Obviously they're on a much higher scale since they're world superstars now, we didn't need a world superstar but it's just an example of how us as fans are hardly the fountain of all knowledge when it comes to signing targets.

What on earth would be the point of discussing Robbo with JW?! It was Ince that signed him, and I'm sure we all know Ince was a mistake either way. You want to talk about the Academy then that's fine, but that's something that can be changed. Somehow I don't think JW is going to magically turn Robbo into a great keeper.

Robbo was picked for england because he was the best, he deserves those caps. If you ever reach the pinacile of your profession please drop me a line so I can diminish your achievements as you do Robbo's, disgraceful statement. I take it that if you achieved 41 caps for england you'd tell everyone that you only got them because you where the best of bad bunch, ###### would you.

How on earth is saying that a big factor in the number of Robbo's caps was the poor quality of the contenders a disgraceful statement?! Yes "best of a bad bunch" may have been a tad harsh....but do you want to NAME some of the top quality English keepers that he kept out of the side? I'm sure he deserves those caps but using his 41 England caps as some kind of proof that he's a good keeper in 2009 isn't a very good point.

Glad to see you bite on the Robbo and Brad compassion, and its interesting to see you say its unfair on Brad to do so. But yet you persist in doing it with Robbo, you can't pick and choose. You also say that Brad made a couple of errors at Liverpool and wasn't given a chance, Is that not exactly what you are doing with Robbo? Even the way you've written about their careers shows you have a dislike for Robbo, Brads is written sympathetically and well Robbo's is hardly flaterring given what he has achieved. Point proven in that you insinuate Robbo was undeserving of his caps as he was un-oppossed, so lets twist it round how much competition did brad have? Does that mean he's undesvering of his caps too or any player in similiar circumstances?

No, as I said before, the VAST majority of my posts on this topic have been comparing Robbo with the keepers in the teams around us, not Brad. I briefly mentioned Brad in a post and you jumped on that. And no, that is not what I'm doing with Robbo. Brad made a couple of mistakes and was barely given a run in the Liverpool team. Robbo has played almost every game for us this season. And again your point about caps is redundant, I'm not mentioning caps for the USA as a pointer for Brad's abilities, nor have I done once. If Brad had been a poor keeper in the Premier League, I would've seen his caps for the USA (double Robbo's btw, and keeping out a good keeper in Keller) as utterly irrelevant. Fact is Robbo's career has followed a very normal trajectory and by his age almost quality keepers are in their prime. Brad's didn't - he was still playing for UCLA in his early twenties and had all sorts of work permit issues which Robbo hasn't had to deal with.

But like I said before, I mentioned Brad in that one post once, the rest of the posts I've been comparing Robbo with other keepers.

I could understand it if you did this sort of thing with all our players IE comparing their stat's with others in their positions and so on, but you only do it with Robbo, why? I'm sure there's quite a few of our players who would not be up near the top this year and yet you say nothing about them, again why?

Psychology is a tricky matter, but as with most issues you get a cascade effect one problem builds into another, again its not as simple as you write it. Just because he's stopped making howlers does not mean everything is alright on the farm. I have good experience/contacts in the field of sports psychology and I know what a difference it makes and how blinkered people can be to the solutions/cause. I don't think its unrealistic to see results IE improved performance with only a few months, sometimes it only takes a few sessions.

If Sam thought there could be no results in a few months I guess he wouldn't have made getting one in a priority, but he did.

So apply that logic to Robbo. I'm not trying to be hard on Nelsen but am trying to point out that not just Robbo should be blamed for us getting nothing at United.

Because there's a lot of people who rate Robbo easily amongst the top half goalkeepers in the league...although this number is coming down as more people are coming round to the fact he's not. There's nowhere near as many who would rate some of the other players in our side like that.

Plus saves/shots ratio is a much "purer" stat than a lot of the others you can find going on players performance. It's a lot harder to pick stats like this out with defenders and midfielders as theres so many components and they all have their different styles with different emphases on different things, but with a keeper their main number 1 job is to keep the ball from going in the net. There's very few external factors that can affect it, you can't really say that keeper X is facing easier or harder shots than keeper Y. Well maybe VDS gets easier shots than Robbo come to think of it, since his defence probably are better at keeping teams down to long shots. But when comparing it to keepers at other relegation threatened teams, it's a very even stat, and Robbo is lagging far behind all the other keepers except for Myhill, who got dropped anyway and their new keeper looks even worse.

I'm sure sports psychologists can have an effect, but it has been a massive amount of time since Robbo has been good.

I will say though, that pinning our defeat at United on Robinson would be harsh. Neither was a howler by any means, he hasn't actually pulled a proper howler for some time. But theyre efforts that many good keepers on an excellent day may have kept out. Many days they would've been beaten too, but just the gradual build up of Robinson not producing enough top drawer saves/performances is taking its toll on our season as whole. This is both reflected in the stats and the fact he's yet to produce a match winning, man of the match style performance for us that almost every side gets from their keeper at least a couple of times a season. I would trade him in for any other first choice keeper in the league, except for the Hull ones and maybe two or three others.

[modes98]

Didnt Bunn make two mistakes in Leicesters game at the weekend?

Not according to most reports I read. Although someone did mention the guardian said he did. Although I missed the league one goals and can't find them on the net. Dispite that the reviews on his performance were favourable on both MK Dons and Leicester sites.

The second goal was an ricochete and the first a well driven low shot.

[tonygreenbank]

Robbo out for a month, Shoulder ligament damage.

I would start with Bunn, he has been putting in the performances for Leicester.

Not good news! Robinson maintains a constant commentary to his defenders which will be sorely missed. Not sure who is the better keeper now Bunn or Brown but he`s going to have to step up to the plate very very quickly. Our survival depends on it.

[47er]

Robbo out for a month, Shoulder ligament damage.

I would start with Bunn, he has been putting in the performances for Leicester.

Hull City again. First Dunn, then Robbo. Dirtiest side in the Prem by a mile but never attacked in the media like we were/are.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Robbo has his faults and weaknesses but he is our best keeper at this moment in time and his absence will be a huge blow in our battle for survival. It's going to be tough for Bunn or Brown to come in at a time where the club is struggling and fighting for its life.

[modes98]

Well it's time for Bunn/Brown to show what they are made of. Whoever steps in must do a good job or we're down.

[OscarRaven]

Hull City again. First Dunn, then Robbo. Dirtiest side in the Prem by a mile but never attacked in the media like we were/are.

Phil Brown before the game:

We'll both be going for the jugular for 90 minutes. I can't see any team pulling out of tackles, challenges or headers.

I think there will be a little claret spilled because there will be that much commitment on show

Can you imagine if Sam had said that before the Manchester Utd game?

Quote from here.

[LeChuck]

Hull City again. First Dunn, then Robbo. Dirtiest side in the Prem by a mile but never attacked in the media like we were/are.

The Hull player had every right to go for the ball, it wasn't a dirty tackle at all.

I wonder who Sam will pick to play in goal? Brown is probably the safer option as he's got some international and Premiership experience, whereas Bunn hasn't played higher than League One yet. It sounds like Bunn is the more talented of the two though, so if he's mentally strong then it wouldn't surprise me to see him start.

I can't recall Brown ever letting us down though, it could be a case of it being his shirt to lose until Robbo comes back.

[Hughesy]

Hull are no where near the dirtiest side - how can someone say that when you have Bolton & Stoke in the league.

Lechuck it right - The hull defender had every right to go for that ball.

[Amo]

Brown will play. If Bunn was second-choice, he wouldn't have been loaned out in the first place.

[Sparky Marky]

who will be reserve goalie then? We could sign Windass as a replacement goalie....

[LeChuck]

Brown will play. If Bunn was second-choice, he wouldn't have been loaned out in the first place.

Hadn't Bunn been included on the bench ahead of Brown for quite a few games though?

Edit: Just checked and he was (Villa game for example). I'm pretty sure Bunn was considered the number two prior to going out on loan...in an odd way he's probably timed that terribly because Brown might have moved ahead of him after being temporarily promoted to number two and then coming on when Robbo was injured.

[Presty On Tour]

The problem with Brown is his height and dealing with crosses. Against Man Utd at Ewood and recently at Coventry he was totally lost in the mix.

Everton cross more often than not as they have many good players in the air and score many goals from set pieces.

It's a hard decision who to play but I would go with Bunn and give him his home debut. He done well against Blyth and the reports from the reserves and Leicester City say he's got the ability to be a top keeper. We know what Brown can do, I think it's worth the gamble on Bunn and give him his chance.

[CAPT KAYOS]

The problem with Brown is his height and dealing with crosses. Against Man Utd at Ewood and recently at Coventry he was totally lost in the mix.

yet against Hull on Sunday he did what he had to do and took an excellent catch just after he came on.

Give the guy a chance its not an area Robinson has exactly excelled in - one thing that keepers need is confidence in the guy's in front of them - they way Nelsen and Samba dealt with what was thrown at them on Saturday I'm sure helped with his contribution and the saves he made, this can't be said for the other games mentioned.

As for Robbo - as I posted on the Hull thread, I still think he was a little unsure about going for the ball and was slower than he should have been which may have contributed to him getting injured imo.

As for Bunn you would have thought they would have sent Brown out on loan instead of him if he is considered the 'No 2'.

As for Everton - the guy responsible for their freekicks and majority of crosses will not be playing

[CrazyIvan]

As for Robbo - as I posted on the Hull thread, I still think he was a little unsure about going for the ball and was slower than he should have been which may have contributed to him getting injured imo.

The challenge and the sly dig in the ribs by the Hull player was nasty. He slides in to a ball he can't hope to win, connects with Robinson after the ball had gone and elbows Robbo in the ribs or somewhere in that area just after. The fact he was given a yellow was one thing but when you consider what the player was hoping to gain by sliding in to the keeper it makes you wonder just what was in his mind, winning the ball wasn't.

[CAPT KAYOS]

The challenge and the sly dig in the ribs by the Hull player was nasty. He slides in to a ball he can't hope to win, connects with Robinson after the ball had gone and elbows Robbo in the ribs or somewhere in that area just after. The fact he was given a yellow was one thing but when you consider what the player was hoping to gain by sliding in to the keeper it makes you wonder just what was in his mind, winning the ball wasn't.

Not seen any replays CI so going off my memory if it serves me right - we where right at the front on Sunday and it appeared to me Turner got to the ball first and the hesitance from Robbo was quite visable from Robbo before he made his mind up to go for the ball.

edit - that might explain the reason Turner got booked as I thought it was just a clash of bodies

[CrazyIvan]

Not seen any replays CI so going off my memory if it serves me right - we where right at the front on Sunday and it appeared to me Turner got to the ball first and the hesitance from Robbo was quite visable from Robbo before he made his mind up to go for the ball.

edit - that might explain the reason Turner got booked as I thought it was just a clash of bodies

I was sat on row K seat 180 so had a pretty decent view of it and I said at the time 'That's a bit late...', I didn't see the dig in the ribs until TV replay at home. My mate had gone to the toilet at that time and commented on it having seen it on TV downstairs.

[SamTheShrew]

this suggests that robinson is indeed out

[Hughesy]

The problem with Brown is his height and dealing with crosses. Against Man Utd at Ewood and recently at Coventry he was totally lost in the mix.

Everton cross more often than not as they have many good players in the air and score many goals from set pieces.

It's a hard decision who to play but I would go with Bunn and give him his home debut. He done well against Blyth and the reports from the reserves and Leicester City say he's got the ability to be a top keeper. We know what Brown can do, I think it's worth the gamble on Bunn and give him his chance.

Im with you on this one Presty. The biggest worry with Brown is his Height and dealing with high balls into the box - with the likes of Lescott, Yobo, Cahill, Jo & Fellini - they are probably one/ if not the most dangerous team in the air.

Bunn for me. Think he went out for experience, where as Brown is going anyway so why would we send him out and improve him!?!?

[modes98]

yet against Hull on Sunday he did what he had to do and took an excellent catch just after he came on.

As for Bunn you would have thought they would have sent Brown out on loan instead of him if he is considered the 'No 2'.

As for Everton - the guy responsible for their freekicks and majority of crosses will not be playing

He wasn't put under any pressure to take crosses against Hull, and was only really forced into making that save late on.

I suppose from Big Sam's point of view he knows that Brown can fill in ans he has a 24 recall option on Bunn, so if Robinson were injured he can get him back straight away whilst giving Bunn first team football at a meaningful level.

They still managed to score a header at the weekend, although it was against WBA. Cahill is a massive threat.