[Archived] Paul Robinson

[CAPT KAYOS]

He wasn't put under any pressure to take crosses against Hull, and was only really forced into making that save late on.

mmmm .... the one on the edge of the box was an excellent take and one that is a good job he did , certainly would not have been one Robinson would have gone for.

Not saying he is better than Robbo but has to be given a chance and just because he is smaller doesn't mean to say that crosses/high balls are going to be a problem

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

Not saying he is better than Robbo but has to be given a chance and just because he is smaller doesn't mean to say that crosses/high balls are going to be a problem

But experience tells us they will be. Look at United. He got completely out muscled and shoved out of the way.

[Majiball]

I've been travelling a lot and met lots of folk from different countries - by and large Dutch/Scandinavians/Northern Europeans (excluding the French who are a real mixed bag in this dept) speak excellent English. They get taught it at school from a very young age, hell I don't think I've met one who hasn't been able to speak fluent English. I'm guessing the countries where you lived, you weren't taught those languages from when you were 5 or 6 years old. The quality of football I suggested in those countries mightn't be the best, but Australia and the States have produced some very good keepers over the years. USA: Brad, Kasey Keller, Tim Howard etc, Aus: John Filan, Mark Schwarzer, Zeljko Kalac. Canada maybe not so much but they've had some decent players recently in other positions.

It may be one less hurdle but like I said, there's a massive amount of players to choose from who could still have fulfilled that requirement of being able to speak fluent English.

But what did they have in the summer that was better than Robbo? the point is only viable in that time frame. You can't take into consideration what they have produced in the past, its irrelevant, we're dealing with the present.

I have colleagues both at uni and at football who are from the countries you mention especially scandinavia. Now whilst they must pass an english test (employment/student standard criteria), they would be the first to admit how hard they found it and confusing. Context (the issue they all raise) is something thats not taught in school and the formation of new habits IE thinking and talking in a new language (as opposed to hearing one translating to their native tongue, then reversing the process, also consider this would result in a drop in verbal reaction times) takes minimum 6 months. The next point you must consider is that your looking at it from your perspective of understanding, not theirs. This is the key point, do they completely understand what you are saying or do they just get the jist of it? Communication is one of the fundementals of Football, effective, clear and presise methods are required. Would he have the same terminology as his new team mates? The keeper has to give clear instructions to his defenders he has a far superior field of vision than them and so is more aware of whats going on, quick, clear and understandable communication is a must. Also factor in that they'll be gelling learning each others strenghts, habits, style(individual, collective and countries), weakness etc (all will require them to be able to communicate) and you make a hard enough situation a lot harder. Coaches would have to simplify their language so better understanding by the recipient is achieved, thus limiting the effectiveness of communication (less specific words). So more time spent talking and demoing and less flow and football on the training pitch.

However by signing someone who does not have to overcome all of those hurdles IE Robbo and given there is 20 days till the start of the season it does mean he should adapt quicker, much quicker.

Really, Ronaldo and Vidic would've been that well known? Ronaldo maybe, but at the end of the day he was still a very promising 18 year old in the Portugese league. Man Utd paid considerably more for both Anderson and Nani and I'd say a transfer fee is a fair reflection of how much hype is built around a young player at a particular time. Vidic was plying his trade at Spartak Moscow. They had no significant European campaigns during that time so the only fans who would've noticed him were either fans who followed the Russian league closely or fans that followed Serbia's World Cup qualifying campaign closely. I don't think many fans would've fallen into either category. Obviously they're on a much higher scale since they're world superstars now, we didn't need a world superstar but it's just an example of how us as fans are hardly the fountain of all knowledge when it comes to signing targets.

Perhaps this shows a difference in us then. When I first heard about Serbia's Defencive record given it was a record I took the time to acctually see who they where. Then when you factor in my interest in youth coaching and the fact that the eastern european coutries are now rated some of the best youth producing areas. I would have been negligent not to have heard of him. But also since you mention briefly their qualifying campagin, here it is in a little more detail.

Serbia and Montenegro began their 2006 World Cup campaign by finishing first with an undefeated record in their qualification group ahead of favourites Spain. The Serbia and Montenegro team also allowed only one goal in the 10 matches, the best defensive record out of all the 51 teams participating in qualification.

Now as a fan that would be enough for me to check out their squad, as I would have thought Serbia who? Undefeated, 1 goal against, that would intrigue me as a fan of the game I'm surprised that didn't intrigue you at all, you obviously heard about it.

Portugal where one of the first countries to adopt a more game orientated training method, so I've always followed them I can't really comment but he was the first portugese player to play in all teams from the U16's through to the first team in one year, so he was getting a lot of press, most of which was on newsnow in the portugese league section. He scored two on his debut and its not often a 16 year old does that. He played at the U17's cup for portugal and every team has scouts there. I guess it just depends on the individual.

What on earth would be the point of discussing Robbo with JW?! It was Ince that signed him, and I'm sure we all know Ince was a mistake either way. You want to talk about the Academy then that's fine, but that's something that can be changed. Somehow I don't think JW is going to magically turn Robbo into a great keeper.

And Ince had to persuade JW to sign the cheque/that he was worth it. In your quest, you have used such examples as why we didn't look here or there, so surely your questioning the scouting? The rationale and crtiteria that where laid out for his signing, the fact in your opinion that we persist in playing a sub-standard keeper. You keep bringing up questions that could only be answered by someone from the club who was privy to said knowledge, Now generally people who ask questions want answers. I suggest JW, you could do it by Email if thats better because he probably knows more than anyone on here ever could about Robbo's signing and why we didn't look further a field and why the club felt he was the right choice. But I guess you don't really want answers.

I don't get the last sentence in that quote, do you want to make robbo a great keeper? If you do I would suggest that reverse psychology, is perhaps not the best method, given Robbo's history.

How on earth is saying that a big factor in the number of Robbo's caps was the poor quality of the contenders a disgraceful statement?! Yes "best of a bad bunch" may have been a tad harsh....but do you want to NAME some of the top quality English keepers that he kept out of the side? I'm sure he deserves those caps but using his 41 England caps as some kind of proof that he's a good keeper in 2009 isn't a very good point.

He was considered the best keeper of english decent available to play for england at that time. What higher accolade is there in the game than to play for your country. He would have worked bloody hard to get there and yet you dismiss nonchanlontly as if its nothing. As I said disgraceful, there's an old saying in football "you can only beat whats put in front of you" Robbo beat them all 41 times. Your whole line of thinking not only insults Robbo but potentially anyone who has achieved anything against your opinion on the quality of their opposition.

You'll obvioulsy never get it, the amount of time you spend as footballer from the age of 8 all the way through to achieving that cap. Do you have any idea at all what that takes, no you don't do you. the odds on getting a YTS contract are 100's to 1, then you've got to make the first team again high odds then the national team, and thats me making it simple. the odds on anyone playing for england are astronmical, go down the bookies they'll tell you I wouldn't be surprised at 50,000-1. So Robbo beat those odds and you demean it. How many kids from his year of birth would have said I want to one day play for england, he did it 100,000's didn't.

Your out of order, you demean his achievements and site a reason he cannot change his date of birth.

So I'll ask, would you say if you where Paul yes I played for england but "I was the best of a bad bunch" to quote yourself?

I'll wager you wouldn't.

No, as I said before, the VAST majority of my posts on this topic have been comparing Robbo with the keepers in the teams around us, not Brad. I briefly mentioned Brad in a post and you jumped on that. And no, that is not what I'm doing with Robbo. Brad made a couple of mistakes and was barely given a run in the Liverpool team. Robbo has played almost every game for us this season. And again your point about caps is redundant, I'm not mentioning caps for the USA as a pointer for Brad's abilities, nor have I done once. If Brad had been a poor keeper in the Premier League, I would've seen his caps for the USA (double Robbo's btw, and keeping out a good keeper in Keller) as utterly irrelevant. Fact is Robbo's career has followed a very normal trajectory and by his age almost quality keepers are in their prime. Brad's didn't - he was still playing for UCLA in his early twenties and had all sorts of work permit issues which Robbo hasn't had to deal with.

But like I said before, I mentioned Brad in that one post once, the rest of the posts I've been comparing Robbo with other keepers.

Plus saves/shots ratio is a much "purer" stat than a lot of the others you can find going on players performance. It's a lot harder to pick stats like this out with defenders and midfielders as theres so many components and they all have their different styles with different emphases on different things, but with a keeper their main number 1 job is to keep the ball from going in the net. There's very few external factors that can affect it, you can't really say that keeper X is facing easier or harder shots than keeper Y. Well maybe VDS gets easier shots than Robbo come to think of it, since his defence probably are better at keeping teams down to long shots. But when comparing it to keepers at other relegation threatened teams, it's a very even stat, and Robbo is lagging far behind all the other keepers except for Myhill, who got dropped anyway and their new keeper looks even worse.

No because as always you take one stat and use it define his ability as a keeper, when if you want a true picture, you'd need to consider more, far more than one stat. Where was the shot? what speed was? where does it end up in the goal? was it savable? Was he left exposed? there's far more to consider than shots to goals that tells you bugger all! For all you know all Robbo's shots are from 1 yard, stats should never be a major factor in football just a guide. I too can take one stat and just use that but as I said you need a truerer picture.

So Keller is a better keeper than James? Carson? Green? Was he not pauls understudy at one stage, 2004-2005? Must have been really good not to keep that flash in pan Robbo out of the team Eh!

If you'd care to read it properly!

Glad to see you bite on the Robbo and Brad comparision, and its interesting to see you say its unfair on Brad to do so(compare them). But yet you persist in doing it with Robbo(comparing), you can't pick and choose.

I've accutually said that you keep comparing Robbo not that you keep comparing him and brad.

I'm sure sports psychologists can have an effect, but it has been a massive amount of time since Robbo has been good.

I will say though, that pinning our defeat at United on Robinson would be harsh. Neither was a howler by any means, he hasn't actually pulled a proper howler for some time. But theyre efforts that many good keepers on an excellent day may have kept out. Many days they would've been beaten too, but just the gradual build up of Robinson not producing enough top drawer saves/performances is taking its toll on our season as whole. This is both reflected in the stats and the fact he's yet to produce a match winning, man of the match style performance for us that almost every side gets from their keeper at least a couple of times a season. I would trade him in for any other first choice keeper in the league, except for the Hull ones and maybe two or three others.

And if the problem hasn't been dealt with it will have grown into a bigger problem.

Now you want to involve form, its simpler than that did he save it or not. You say robinson hasn't produced a top draw performance yet and yet you hound his ability and achievements again I raise the point why don't you do this with all our players? You only do it to Robbo.

So a keeper should produce two game winning performances a season, fair enough if thats what you want in a keeper fine. Howver you do know Robbo still has plenty of time to fufill your criteria, patience.

PS saying you would trade him for any other first choice keeper and then dismissing 20% in the next line is hilarious. You do realise that once you add in Robbo you have just dismissed 25%, one quarter of all the first choice keepers but yet you claim you'd have any of them, hilarious.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Hadn't Bunn been included on the bench ahead of Brown for quite a few games though?

Edit: Just checked and he was (Villa game for example). I'm pretty sure Bunn was considered the number two prior to going out on loan...in an odd way he's probably timed that terribly because Brown might have moved ahead of him after being temporarily promoted to number two and then coming on when Robbo was injured.

Supect that was so Brown could get some reserve team football and match practice before they loaned Bunn out. Just in case he was needed.

mmmm .... the one on the edge of the box was an excellent take and one that is a good job he did , certainly would not have been one Robinson would have gone for.

Not saying he is better than Robbo but has to be given a chance and just because he is smaller doesn't mean to say that crosses/high balls are going to be a problem

At least our defence now know how to cope with a keeper who can't handle high balls.

[bellamy11]

As it seems to have gone unsaid (and currently unreplied to), that's a cracking post Majiball.

[CAPT KAYOS]

But experience tells us they will be. Look at United. He got completely out muscled and shoved out of the way.

you mean fouled

.. . also on the flip side - the question has to be where were our defenders?

[Hughesy]

As it seems to have gone unsaid (and currently unreplied to), that's a cracking post Majiball.

Yeah if you have a spare hour to waste on one post

[bellamy11]

You should learn to read quicker

Given that it was about 8 billion times more interesting and informed that the overwhelming majority of dross on here, I'd say it was effort well spent. Certainly better than all the "Andrews/Robinson/Mokoena etc is a useless tosser" rubbish.

[Hughesy]

Ok I took the time to read it too - good points Majiball.

Every keeper over Robinson?? OMG - im glad your not manager. Yes he hasnt been perfect, but he is not the only one. Give the lad time. He wasnt an England International for nothing (Oh I forgot he was the best of a bad lot)!!

[Rovers_4_life]

Came across this, statistics can be mis-leading...

(Scroll down to the table with the stats on the Keepers)

Interesting

[JAL]

FAO Majiball.

What would you do to improve Robbo or are you happy with him as he is.

For me his positioning is spot on, he has more than enough experience so how can he deliver to change or impress tony gales mic and myself.

[tony gale's mic]

But what did they have in the summer that was better than Robbo? the point is only viable in that time frame. You can't take into consideration what they have produced in the past, its irrelevant, we're dealing with the present.

I have colleagues both at uni and at football who are from the countries you mention especially scandinavia. Now whilst they must pass an english test (employment/student standard criteria), they would be the first to admit how hard they found it and confusing. Context (the issue they all raise) is something thats not taught in school and the formation of new habits IE thinking and talking in a new language (as opposed to hearing one translating to their native tongue, then reversing the process, also consider this would result in a drop in verbal reaction times) takes minimum 6 months. The next point you must consider is that your looking at it from your perspective of understanding, not theirs. This is the key point, do they completely understand what you are saying or do they just get the jist of it? Communication is one of the fundementals of Football, effective, clear and presise methods are required. Would he have the same terminology as his new team mates? The keeper has to give clear instructions to his defenders he has a far superior field of vision than them and so is more aware of whats going on, quick, clear and understandable communication is a must. Also factor in that they'll be gelling learning each others strenghts, habits, style(individual, collective and countries), weakness etc (all will require them to be able to communicate) and you make a hard enough situation a lot harder. Coaches would have to simplify their language so better understanding by the recipient is achieved, thus limiting the effectiveness of communication (less specific words). So more time spent talking and demoing and less flow and football on the training pitch.

However by signing someone who does not have to overcome all of those hurdles IE Robbo and given there is 20 days till the start of the season it does mean he should adapt quicker, much quicker.

I'm sorry but if someone can speak English quite well (like the majority of other potential goalkeepers would have been able to) then language is still a ridiculously minor factor. And communication is a two-way thing, surely if we're saying we should put a priority on signing an English keeper for his communication, we should say we should sign defenders who will be able to understand this communication properly too? Yet we have a Congolese and a Frenchman currently in our backline.

Like I said, scraping the bottom of the barrel in a big way.

Perhaps this shows a difference in us then. When I first heard about Serbia's Defencive record given it was a record I took the time to acctually see who they where. Then when you factor in my interest in youth coaching and the fact that the eastern european coutries are now rated some of the best youth producing areas. I would have been negligent not to have heard of him. But also since you mention briefly their qualifying campagin, here it is in a little more detail.

Serbia and Montenegro began their 2006 World Cup campaign by finishing first with an undefeated record in their qualification group ahead of favourites Spain. The Serbia and Montenegro team also allowed only one goal in the 10 matches, the best defensive record out of all the 51 teams participating in qualification.

Now as a fan that would be enough for me to check out their squad, as I would have thought Serbia who? Undefeated, 1 goal against, that would intrigue me as a fan of the game I'm surprised that didn't intrigue you at all, you obviously heard about it.

Portugal where one of the first countries to adopt a more game orientated training method, so I've always followed them I can't really comment but he was the first portugese player to play in all teams from the U16's through to the first team in one year, so he was getting a lot of press, most of which was on newsnow in the portugese league section. He scored two on his debut and its not often a 16 year old does that. He played at the U17's cup for portugal and every team has scouts there. I guess it just depends on the individual.

I did hear about Serbia's defensive record but opportunities to see Vidic in action would still have been thin on the ground. The Russian league is hardly a staple on TV, and whenever qualifiers come round like most fans in this country I'm watching England - I don't even think Serbia's games would have been televised save for highlights (which can be good ways to spot attackers' skills but hardly good ways to spot defenders' skills). Plus they didn't have any club games in Europe.

And Ince had to persuade JW to sign the cheque/that he was worth it. In your quest, you have used such examples as why we didn't look here or there, so surely your questioning the scouting? The rationale and crtiteria that where laid out for his signing, the fact in your opinion that we persist in playing a sub-standard keeper. You keep bringing up questions that could only be answered by someone from the club who was privy to said knowledge, Now generally people who ask questions want answers. I suggest JW, you could do it by Email if thats better because he probably knows more than anyone on here ever could about Robbo's signing and why we didn't look further a field and why the club felt he was the right choice. But I guess you don't really want answers.

I don't get the last sentence in that quote, do you want to make robbo a great keeper? If you do I would suggest that reverse psychology, is perhaps not the best method, given Robbo's history.

Obviously JW was going to sign the cheque. On the face of it, an England international keeper looked like a decent bet, I certainly don't put any blame at JW's door for that, that would be ridiculous. A chairman has to back his manager unless he suggests a completely ridiculous signing. Robbo is hardly an unmitigated disaster, he'd have to be pulling howlers every other week for that to happen. But he's still not good enough.

He was considered the best keeper of english decent available to play for england at that time. What higher accolade is there in the game than to play for your country. He would have worked bloody hard to get there and yet you dismiss nonchanlontly as if its nothing. As I said disgraceful, there's an old saying in football "you can only beat whats put in front of you" Robbo beat them all 41 times. Your whole line of thinking not only insults Robbo but potentially anyone who has achieved anything against your opinion on the quality of their opposition.

You'll obvioulsy never get it, the amount of time you spend as footballer from the age of 8 all the way through to achieving that cap. Do you have any idea at all what that takes, no you don't do you. the odds on getting a YTS contract are 100's to 1, then you've got to make the first team again high odds then the national team, and thats me making it simple. the odds on anyone playing for england are astronmical, go down the bookies they'll tell you I wouldn't be surprised at 50,000-1. So Robbo beat those odds and you demean it. How many kids from his year of birth would have said I want to one day play for england, he did it 100,000's didn't.

Your out of order, you demean his achievements and site a reason he cannot change his date of birth.

So I'll ask, would you say if you where Paul yes I played for england but "I was the best of a bad bunch" to quote yourself?

I'll wager you wouldn't.

Oh christ. You sound a little like his mother here. I'm judging him against OTHER PROFESSIONAL PREMIER LEAGUE FOOTBALLERS. Obviously getting to his stage is a big achievement. But why criticise any Premier League footballers? Getting to that stage took a lot of hard work and talent etc etc.

But you're holding up his England credentials as a big indicator of his abilities. All I'm saying is that there's a mighty difference between playing for your country when there's large amounts of quality players you're keeping out of the side, and playing for your country when there's much fewer quality players you're keeping out. I don't really see how this can be denied.

You still didn't answer the question: How many great keepers did Robbo keep out of the England side?

If I was Paul I would look back on my career with pride since I would've achieved a lot in the game. However I'd probably recognise that had Shilton, Banks or even Seaman been around for the majority of my career, I would have struggled to win all those caps.

No because as always you take one stat and use it define his ability as a keeper, when if you want a true picture, you'd need to consider more, far more than one stat. Where was the shot? what speed was? where does it end up in the goal? was it savable? Was he left exposed? there's far more to consider than shots to goals that tells you bugger all! For all you know all Robbo's shots are from 1 yard, stats should never be a major factor in football just a guide. I too can take one stat and just use that but as I said you need a truerer picture.

So Keller is a better keeper than James? Carson? Green? Was he not pauls understudy at one stage, 2004-2005? Must have been really good not to keep that flash in pan Robbo out of the team Eh!

If you'd care to read it properly!

Glad to see you bite on the Robbo and Brad comparision, and its interesting to see you say its unfair on Brad to do so(compare them). But yet you persist in doing it with Robbo(comparing), you can't pick and choose.

I've accutually said that you keep comparing Robbo not that you keep comparing him and brad.

No, I take his performances as my basis (I only saw those stats a bit ago when I'd been criticising him for longer) and I use those stats as an indicator. It's harder to have a debate about something subjective unless you have something a little more objective to back it up.

Keepers and strikers are the two areas of the pitch where one performance indicator dominates the rest. With strikers it's putting the ball in the net, and with keepers it's the opposite. Shots saved does measure this directly. Sure it's remotely concievable that Robbo may have been facing harder shots to save than Carson, Turnbull, Green, Gomes and the other keepers around him, but considering we all play the same opposition and these stats were taken over half a season it's quite unlikely. Taken over one game the stats would be pointless, but taken over the season they hold a lot more value. As I said, it's also backed up by the fact he hasn't produced one real quality performance this season.

They're certainly not the be all and end all of his performances, but he doesn't look great on crosses either. His kicking's good though, and he is producing fewer outright howlers than his nightmare days though, so that's something.

And yes Robinson kept Keller out of the side. In 2004-05. Five years ago. "Flash in the pan" may have been an exaggeration but citing something that happened so long ago hardly adds weight to your argument that Robbo is a good keeper currently. I'm not denying that he was pretty good, a long time ago.

And if the problem hasn't been dealt with it will have grown into a bigger problem.

Now you want to involve form, its simpler than that did he save it or not. You say robinson hasn't produced a top draw performance yet and yet you hound his ability and achievements again I raise the point why don't you do this with all our players? You only do it to Robbo.

So a keeper should produce two game winning performances a season, fair enough if thats what you want in a keeper fine. Howver you do know Robbo still has plenty of time to fufill your criteria, patience.

PS saying you would trade him for any other first choice keeper and then dismissing 20% in the next line is hilarious. You do realise that once you add in Robbo you have just dismissed 25%, one quarter of all the first choice keepers but yet you claim you'd have any of them, hilarious.

Because the deficiencies in the rest of our players is a lot more obvious. We're all agreed on the central midfield situation, we all know how bad the defence was under Ince's reign. But even then for all their deficiencies I can look at a lot of our players for certain matches and think that they've produced a few real quality performances this season. It's harder to do that with Robinson.

And that "two game" thing was an absolute bare minimum. If and when he starts producing match winning performances, believe me I will be the first to say he has upped his game. Like any fan, I want a keeper who will win us points and keep us in games, even though I really don't expect another Brad. But I can only go on what I have seen so far.

And no it's not that ridiculous. I wouldn't trade him for the Hull keepers. I'd probably take Robbo over Simonsen. I'd have to see more of Turnbull/Jones up close to know whether I'd trade Robbo for them, they've performed better this season but Robbo is still more experienced. So that's three clubs...obviously five keepers but form/injury has affected selection. There's still sixteen I'd have over Robinson. Since I've seen many posts on here claiming he's one of the league's better keepers, I'd say that is quite a difference of opinion.

[Majiball]

FAO Majiball.

What would you do to improve Robbo or are you happy with him as he is.

For me his positioning is spot on, he has more than enough experience so how can he deliver to change or impress tony gales mic and myself.

Sent you a PM.

I'm sorry but if someone can speak English quite well (like the majority of other potential goalkeepers would have been able to) then language is still a ridiculously minor factor. And communication is a two-way thing, surely if we're saying we should put a priority on signing an English keeper for his communication, we should say we should sign defenders who will be able to understand this communication properly too? Yet we have a Congolese and a Frenchman currently in our backline.

Like I said, scraping the bottom of the barrel in a big way.

Ok please go back and read what I said given the situation IE 20 days till the start of the season. An english speaking Goalkeeper already culturaly adapted both footballing and coutry wise was a better bet given the timescales involved and all the coaching that would have been required to make the defencive unit ready. The main connecting Language as you so rightly show is English.

Samba spoke english when he arrived. Givet I have no idea about but its probably limited. However neither are keepers Gomes couldn't speak english when he first came here, no problems there. You'll notice he wasn't renowned for Gaffs prior to coming here and now he's more consistent, perhaps he's adapting.

When a keeper makes a mistake there's normally only one outcome goal.

I would like to ask why Language is a ridiculous minor consideration?

Do you listen to Capello? he's a basic english speaking type, doesn't he always complain that he finds it hard to get his point across. How long has he been learning our language? Has he not said he finds Gerrard Rooney and the people from the north of england hard to understand.

As I've said previously you take one point and focus on that and dismiss the rest. you say scrapping the barrel but I'm going on personal experience and knowledge, I think I'll look at it my way.

I did hear about Serbia's defensive record but opportunities to see Vidic in action would still have been thin on the ground. The Russian league is hardly a staple on TV, and whenever qualifiers come round like most fans in this country I'm watching England - I don't even think Serbia's games would have been televised save for highlights (which can be good ways to spot attackers' skills but hardly good ways to spot defenders' skills). Plus they didn't have any club games in Europe.

Are you honestly telling me the internet was not around at the time, you can find anything footballing wise on there. Christ there where even vid's on JSC. So I think highlights would have been easy to find.

Oh christ. You sound a little like his mother here. I'm judging him against OTHER PROFESSIONAL PREMIER LEAGUE FOOTBALLERS. Obviously getting to his stage is a big achievement. But why criticise any Premier League footballers? Getting to that stage took a lot of hard work and talent etc etc.

But you're holding up his England credentials as a big indicator of his abilities. All I'm saying is that there's a mighty difference between playing for your country when there's large amounts of quality players you're keeping out of the side, and playing for your country when there's much fewer quality players you're keeping out. I don't really see how this can be denied.

You still didn't answer the question: How many great keepers did Robbo keep out of the England side?

If I was Paul I would look back on my career with pride since I would've achieved a lot in the game. However I'd probably recognise that had Shilton, Banks or even Seaman been around for the majority of my career, I would have struggled to win all those caps.

And here's your problem isn't it. I see Robbo for what he is steady and slowly improving. You see him as Brads replacement and you resent him (the way you put him down and and then always retract is classic).

No I'm not Pauls mother but if I was my language would be far worse. You obvioulsy have not been through it you have no idea how hard it is. Its really easy to look from the outside in and critice isn't it.

I have never said his england caps dictate his abilities. What I said was he was considered the best keeper in england 41 times, that is the case I have not said 41 caps means he's a great keeper, just that he deserves them and should not be put down by you for getting them.

You wish to work in fantasy land where he has to be a great keeper to be deserving of them, I know he's a good keeper but you keep dreaming of what could have been I'm happy in reality.

You said Friedel kept Keller who you stated was in your opinion a good keeper, I mentioned that Paul did the same at spurs. So given that Keller is in your opinion a good keeper does that make Robbo better than him? Brad kept Keller out of the USA team Robbo did the same at Spurs, or was that manager just fooled by Robbo's masgerade.

The fact you write etc etc jsuts proves you have never been in the situation and have limited knowledge on it and yet you pass comment, I tend not to voice opinions unless I'm knowledgable.

Why does Robbo have to have kept out great keepers, James, Hart, Green are the keepers you would have us replace him with (where is the magic money coming from did you buy a lotto ticket) and yet he kept them out for years.

Time to face up Robbo is probably here for a while.

No, I take his performances as my basis (I only saw those stats a bit ago when I'd been criticising him for longer) and I use those stats as an indicator. It's harder to have a debate about something subjective unless you have something a little more objective to back it up.

And yet you use such structured objective comments as nonsense and nothing more, Your opinion is completely subjective and you've taken one stat that supports that opinion and dismissed all the rest. Below is the definition of objective which you claim to be using:

Objective:

1.) undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena; "an objective appraisal"; "objective evidence"

2.) serving as or indicating the object of a verb or of certain prepositions and used for certain other purposes; "objective case"; "accusative endings"

3.) aim: the goal intended to be attained (and which is believed to be attainable); "the sole object of her trip was to see her children"

4.) emphasizing or expressing things as perceived without distortion of personal feelings, insertion of fictional matter, or interpretation; "objective art"

5.) the lens or system of lenses in a telescope or microscope that is nearest the object being viewed

belonging to immediate experience of actual things or events; "objective benefits"; "an objective example"; "there is no objective evidence of anything of the kind"

1.) definitly personal bias in your posts so no objectivity. Please don't claim something you do not display.

Keepers and strikers are the two areas of the pitch where one performance indicator dominates the rest. With strikers it's putting the ball in the net, and with keepers it's the opposite. Shots saved does measure this directly. Sure it's remotely concievable that Robbo may have been facing harder shots to save than Carson, Turnbull, Green, Gomes and the other keepers around him, but considering we all play the same opposition and these stats were taken over half a season it's quite unlikely. Taken over one game the stats would be pointless, but taken over the season they hold a lot more value. As I said, it's also backed up by the fact he hasn't produced one real quality performance this season.

So the same teams always score the same goals under indentical circumstances?? That is what you have just said you do realise that don't you.

I must have spent the 25 years playing the wrong game. I've never seen that in my life, never, what are you talking about? For that stat to be the determining factor all the rest must equeal 0 they do not so it is not. No two goals are the same, never, you do know clubs employ match analyists who do all of the stats (all of them) before handing them to the manager so he can add objectivity (achieved by being unbiased and by considering all aspects). Now why does he do that? Because according to you, you only need one stat and thats that.

As I said you must consider more than just one stat thats called twisting it to your opinion. Otherwise its not objective.

They're certainly not the be all and end all of his performances, but he doesn't look great on crosses either. His kicking's good though, and he is producing fewer outright howlers than his nightmare days though, so that's something.

And yes Robinson kept Keller out of the side. In 2004-05. Five years ago. "Flash in the pan" may have been an exaggeration but citing something that happened so long ago hardly adds weight to your argument that Robbo is a good keeper currently. I'm not denying that he was pretty good, a long time ago.

So now they don't matter?? the stats no longer important. You also now want to consider crosses and kicking and howlers but I thought only shots to goals mattered?

Now even your considering other aspects.

Because the deficiencies in the rest of our players is a lot more obvious. We're all agreed on the central midfield situation, we all know how bad the defence was under Ince's reign. But even then for all their deficiencies I can look at a lot of our players for certain matches and think that they've produced a few real quality performances this season. It's harder to do that with Robinson.

And that "two game" thing was an absolute bare minimum. If and when he starts producing match winning performances, believe me I will be the first to say he has upped his game. Like any fan, I want a keeper who will win us points and keep us in games, even though I really don't expect another Brad. But I can only go on what I have seen so far.

And no it's not that ridiculous. I wouldn't trade him for the Hull keepers. I'd probably take Robbo over Simonsen. I'd have to see more of Turnbull/Jones up close to know whether I'd trade Robbo for them, they've performed better this season but Robbo is still more experienced. So that's three clubs...obviously five keepers but form/injury has affected selection. There's still sixteen I'd have over Robinson. Since I've seen many posts on here claiming he's one of the league's better keepers, I'd say that is quite a difference of opinion.

This is something you posted on July 29th 2008 12:56 in the "do you approve of the new manager thread."

Robinson hardly excites me, he's not a current international and was dropped by both club and country last season.

Same day.

We just need to be more inventive than to look for the nearest available Premiership player in his position, which is what we've done with Paul Robinson.

Day before

And while Robinson may be a better option two or three years down the line, you'd be hard pressed to suggest he won't be inferior to Brad next season.

Same day

People keep saying this, and maybe it is a good fee for a 37 year old.

But what does that even mean?! We wouldnt have accepted it if he left for £1.5 million...what does that money even buy these days? If it leads to us being two or three positions lower then it means that extra money we got will have totally been negated AND we would be more likely to lose our best players, not finish in Europe etc etc.

So Robbo signed on the 25th July and by the 29th you've judged him already has he even played for us yet by then? You've been against him from day one before he even wore the shirt. No bias there at all, not even a chance.

You want to claim objectivity I just disproved it.

[T4E]

According to the official site Robinson is only 3lbs lighter than Samba. It also says he's 6'4", which would make him 2" taller than Brad. Doesnt seem right?

[Eddie]

Looked good in goal again today and pulled off a great save when it was 0-0 which obviously turned out to be crucial. He's proving some of his worth in this close important matches.

[John]

Looked good in goal again today and pulled off a great save when it was 0-0 which obviously turned out to be crucial. He's proving some of his worth in this close important matches.

Some people still won't be happy though.....

[Tom]

Great save today and some crucial claims as well.

May have got to the penalty had it been on the spot.

[BRFC Casuals]

Great save today and some crucial claims as well.

May have got to the penalty had it been on the spot.

Spot on mate and he took stick from the spuds fans all the first half, his save shut a lot of them up well done Robbo

[martmitch]

top stuff from robbo today, wouldnt say he was particuarly busy but pulled off some really good saves when tested, glad he had a god game vs spurs

[Amo]

Didn't have a lot to do today, but took care of what he did.

[Hughesy]

Made a fantastic and vital save - job done.

[Bobby G]

I think this is how we can summarize Robinson for us.

He wont ever be a keeper who can be bombarded with shots against us in an off day for the defence and keep a clean sheet. We were spoilt with how many times Brad saved us in that fashion. But, he is a reasonably steady keeper, who if the defence performs well enough, he will keep out the shots.

[Flopsy]

he will get better as his confidence gets better. It was shot at Spurs and he has a good chance to getting back to his best, which was very very good. I think it will depend on our Goalkeeping coach and how Sam manages him

[Alan75]

Robbo or Gomes. ?

[Flopsy]

we're buying Gomez as well?